Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Oh, now I see how you get around James' word in the bible. It is not about those that have real faith, even though they do not help the naked and the hungry, it is about those that have claimed they have faith, but do not help the naked and the hungry. Good going EG, you have saved your theology again with a wave of the OSAS wand.
Luke 6:43-49 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. The Wise and Foolish Builders “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”
New International Version 1984 Titus 1:15-16 to the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.
So you believe that the thief may have been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely) In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blashemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING.
More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blasheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:40-43). Of course, he died on that cross before having the opportunity to be water baptized.
More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blasheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:40-43). Of course, he died on that cross before having the opportunity to be water baptized.
There is one thing that is sacred on this forum, and you are the only person that I have seen that has broken that sacred trust. My name is benhur, I am a male, not a her. Thank you for your respect for that.
I disagree with you on how one is saved, but I have not called you names or switched your gender. I have wished you well, and still wish you well, keep up the good fight.
I disagree with you on how one is saved, but I have not called you names or switched your gender. I have wished you well, and still wish you well, keep up the good fight.
N
bump for ben
the whole bible is true ben...
the same principal that is being said by Jesus there
is said by Jesus here
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
____________
again same principal
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
ben
youre constantly taking
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and trying to say a man needs more than grace or faith to be saved
i have tried explaining the context of multiple chapters in matthew to you...
twice
please
pray to God to open your eyes
con·text
ˈkäntekst
noun
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
(the only time a verse is posted in context is when it is within the whole bible.... every single person including myself who posts a verse.... posts it out of context... the reason i addressed it this time because people like you typically take verses out of context in order to mask or distort the truth)
such as
works are a requirement and not a product of
or that a born again believer can lose salvation
these are both lies... part of a wicked false gospel
the whole bible is true ben...
the same principal that is being said by Jesus there
is said by Jesus here
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
____________
again same principal
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
ben
youre constantly taking
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and trying to say a man needs more than grace or faith to be saved
i have tried explaining the context of multiple chapters in matthew to you...
twice
please
pray to God to open your eyes
con·text
ˈkäntekst
noun
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
(the only time a verse is posted in context is when it is within the whole bible.... every single person including myself who posts a verse.... posts it out of context... the reason i addressed it this time because people like you typically take verses out of context in order to mask or distort the truth)
such as
works are a requirement and not a product of
or that a born again believer can lose salvation
these are both lies... part of a wicked false gospel
bump
pretty fresh page
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Galatians 5:6 - For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
pretty fresh page
Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Galatians 5:6 - For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love
New International Version 1984 2 Peter 2:1-22 False Teachers and Their Destruction But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—a beast without speech—who spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”
P
I do believe you when you say the only thing that matters to you is the word of God ... In fact, I like many of your posts and agree with them ... I wasn't talking about your belief system, I was merely advising you may want to be a bit more careful with your wording so someone else doesn't possibly get the wrong idea ... Actually trying to help you, not harm you in any way ...
N
your understanding
or the righteousness you try to establish through your own works do not cover one of your many sins
Jesus will cover every single one of them if you are born again
im safe
these scriptures you pay little attention to prove it
bump for you
vvvvvv
the same principal that is being said by Jesus there
is said by Jesus here
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
____________
again same principal
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
ben
youre constantly taking
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and trying to say a man needs more than grace or faith to be saved
or the righteousness you try to establish through your own works do not cover one of your many sins
Jesus will cover every single one of them if you are born again
im safe
these scriptures you pay little attention to prove it
bump for you
vvvvvv
the same principal that is being said by Jesus there
is said by Jesus here
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
____________
again same principal
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
ben
youre constantly taking
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and trying to say a man needs more than grace or faith to be saved