Not By Works
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Been through this. There are 2 possible words that baptism can come from. The first is washing the feet of a person as done in Biblical times. The second one is immersing a cloth in a dye vat. Sprinkling and pouring come from the first and immersion from the second. The fight over which word depends on the paradigm of the person advocating them. An obvious bias creeps in.
In point of fact there are no verses defining how it is to be done.
In point of fact there are no verses defining how it is to be done.
I understand what you are saying, but I think what that scripture is saying is that he was born in the flesh in such same conditions as man being under the law, but not a law breaker,because the law was written by him. The law did not make him a sinner just because he was in the flesh. We are talking about the one and only Holy Spirit of God who became sin but yet knew no sin, meaning he became man, flesh and blood.
N
the whole bible is true ben...
the same principal that is being said by Jesus there
is said by Jesus here
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
____________
again same principal
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then of you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
ben
youre constantly taking
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and trying to say a man needs more than grace or faith to be saved
i have tried explaining the context of multiple chapters in matthew to you...
twice
please
pray to God to open your eyes
(bump for ben)
the same principal that is being said by Jesus there
is said by Jesus here
matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
_________
Jesus asked was telling this man how to be perfect
this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)
Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?
then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was)
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
____________
again same principal
Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then of you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
____________
that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....
this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......
he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect
let alone his literal neighbor....
ben
youre constantly taking
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works
and trying to say a man needs more than grace or faith to be saved
i have tried explaining the context of multiple chapters in matthew to you...
twice
please
pray to God to open your eyes
(bump for ben)
it originally comes from a word tied to ships sinking beneath the waves and even the Greek word has the root meaning of immersion....note the following...
[h=1]baptize (v.)[/h]from Latin baptizare, from Greek baptizein "immerse, dip in water," also figuratively, "be over one's head" (in debt, etc.), "to be soaked (in wine);" in Christian use, "baptize;" from baptein "to dip, steep, dye, color," perhaps from PIE root *gwabh- (1) "to dip, sink." Christian baptism originally was a full immersion. Related: Baptized; baptizing.
Our examination of standard Greek dictionaries reveals that there is no mystery about the meaning of the Greek terms baptizo and baptisma even though there may be denominational objections to this practice today.
[h=3][/h]
[h=1]baptize (v.)[/h]from Latin baptizare, from Greek baptizein "immerse, dip in water," also figuratively, "be over one's head" (in debt, etc.), "to be soaked (in wine);" in Christian use, "baptize;" from baptein "to dip, steep, dye, color," perhaps from PIE root *gwabh- (1) "to dip, sink." Christian baptism originally was a full immersion. Related: Baptized; baptizing.
Our examination of standard Greek dictionaries reveals that there is no mystery about the meaning of the Greek terms baptizo and baptisma even though there may be denominational objections to this practice today.
[h=3][/h]
Concerning Baptize meaning immersion and how the word was used in classical GREEK before it was ever tied to Christian Baptism.....
Truth Magazine Online What Does it mean to Baptize....<---google this as it shows how the Greek word Baptize was employed and used BEFORE it is tied to Christian Immersion which gives weight to the word meaning immersion and how it was used to indicate being UNDER the water....an example is found below...
[h=1]What Does it Mean to “Baptize”?[/h]By Tom Hamilton
When we want to know what a certain word means, we have to look at how the word itself is used by the people that speak the language in question. Of course, we could look in a dictionary or lexicon, but these reference works themselves are merely cataloged listings of how the word has actually been used.
Therefore, in regard to a theological word like baptizo — “baptize”, we could look in the standard Greek lexicons, which affirm the word means to “dip, plunge, immerse,” but we should also double-check for ourselves by looking at the actual usage of this word in existing Greek literature. This is especially important for theological terms, because there is always the temptation to bend the meaning of a word to support our own peculiar interpretation or theology.
The truth is to be found in how the word was used itself, whether in classical Greek, the Greek of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT), the Greek literature contemporary with the NT, or the Greek NT itself.
Classical Greek
The literal meaning of baptizo is evident from its common usage in classical Greek, long before there was any biblical connection to the word. The word is used, for example of ships sinking: “Attalus observed one of his own pentere (a type of ship) which had been rammed by an enemy ship and was sinking (lit. ‘was being baptized’) . . .” (Polybius, Histories 16.6.2; see also 1.51.6). In an ancient medical text, one patient’s labored breathing is described in this way: “. . . she breathed like a diver (lit. ‘one who has been baptized’) who has surfaced” (Hippocrates, Epidemics 5.63).
This image of burial, especially in water, came to have figurative uses as well. It is often used to describe the greatest degree of drunkenness, the idea being that one is immersed in wine. For example, in an appeal for more moderate drinking as opposed to the previous day’s excesses, one speaker identifies himself as “one of those who was soaked (lit. ‘baptized’) yesterday” (Plato, Symposium 176b). Similarly, Plato also uses the term to describe a youth being overwhelmed in a philosophical argument, “I, knowing the young man to be going under (lit. ‘being baptized’) and wanting to give him some breathing-space . . .” (Plato, Euthydemus 277d). We read that the rulers of Egypt enjoyed a sufficient income such that “they do not bury (lit. ‘baptize’) the people with property taxes” (Diodorus Siculus, 1.73). Likewise, Plutarch comments that the Roman emperor Galba was hesitant to declare Otho his successor, because he knew him to be “unrestrained and extravagant and buried (lit. ‘baptized’) under a debt of five million (sesterces)” (Plutarch, Galba 21)
Truth Magazine Online What Does it mean to Baptize....<---google this as it shows how the Greek word Baptize was employed and used BEFORE it is tied to Christian Immersion which gives weight to the word meaning immersion and how it was used to indicate being UNDER the water....an example is found below...
[h=1]What Does it Mean to “Baptize”?[/h]By Tom Hamilton
When we want to know what a certain word means, we have to look at how the word itself is used by the people that speak the language in question. Of course, we could look in a dictionary or lexicon, but these reference works themselves are merely cataloged listings of how the word has actually been used.
Therefore, in regard to a theological word like baptizo — “baptize”, we could look in the standard Greek lexicons, which affirm the word means to “dip, plunge, immerse,” but we should also double-check for ourselves by looking at the actual usage of this word in existing Greek literature. This is especially important for theological terms, because there is always the temptation to bend the meaning of a word to support our own peculiar interpretation or theology.
The truth is to be found in how the word was used itself, whether in classical Greek, the Greek of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT), the Greek literature contemporary with the NT, or the Greek NT itself.
Classical Greek
The literal meaning of baptizo is evident from its common usage in classical Greek, long before there was any biblical connection to the word. The word is used, for example of ships sinking: “Attalus observed one of his own pentere (a type of ship) which had been rammed by an enemy ship and was sinking (lit. ‘was being baptized’) . . .” (Polybius, Histories 16.6.2; see also 1.51.6). In an ancient medical text, one patient’s labored breathing is described in this way: “. . . she breathed like a diver (lit. ‘one who has been baptized’) who has surfaced” (Hippocrates, Epidemics 5.63).
This image of burial, especially in water, came to have figurative uses as well. It is often used to describe the greatest degree of drunkenness, the idea being that one is immersed in wine. For example, in an appeal for more moderate drinking as opposed to the previous day’s excesses, one speaker identifies himself as “one of those who was soaked (lit. ‘baptized’) yesterday” (Plato, Symposium 176b). Similarly, Plato also uses the term to describe a youth being overwhelmed in a philosophical argument, “I, knowing the young man to be going under (lit. ‘being baptized’) and wanting to give him some breathing-space . . .” (Plato, Euthydemus 277d). We read that the rulers of Egypt enjoyed a sufficient income such that “they do not bury (lit. ‘baptize’) the people with property taxes” (Diodorus Siculus, 1.73). Likewise, Plutarch comments that the Roman emperor Galba was hesitant to declare Otho his successor, because he knew him to be “unrestrained and extravagant and buried (lit. ‘baptized’) under a debt of five million (sesterces)” (Plutarch, Galba 21)
MAN...adding to the word will get you a one way ticket pal....it does not say born of a woman under the law......it states clearly ----> born of a woman, born UNDER THE LAW
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
AND your continuing to bear false witness.....you should read proverbs 6....your the epitome of like 3 or 4 of the 7 listed.
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
AND your continuing to bear false witness.....you should read proverbs 6....your the epitome of like 3 or 4 of the 7 listed.
He was born in the likeness of sinful flesh, took our sin upon him, was hanged on a tree and the law is clear....cursed is everyone that is hanged on a tree....JESUS was forsaken at that moment by the FATHER and read Isaiah 53...he was CURSED for our sake. YOU guys are wrong.....end of story.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree
Here is the passage from Gal 4:4 in Koine:
"γενόμενον ἐκ γυναικός, γενόμενον ὑπὸ νόμον,"
"γενόμενον" an aorist participle meaning "born"
"ἐκ" - a preposition taking the genitive meaning "from", "out of", "of"
"γυναικός" - noun meaning "woman"
"ὑπὸ" - a preposition taking the accusative meaning "under"
"νόμον" - a noun, in the accusative form meaning "law"
Translation: "born of [a] woman, born under [the] law,"
Sooo, yes, Jesus was born under the law!
"γενόμενον ἐκ γυναικός, γενόμενον ὑπὸ νόμον,"
"γενόμενον" an aorist participle meaning "born"
"ἐκ" - a preposition taking the genitive meaning "from", "out of", "of"
"γυναικός" - noun meaning "woman"
"ὑπὸ" - a preposition taking the accusative meaning "under"
"νόμον" - a noun, in the accusative form meaning "law"
Translation: "born of [a] woman, born under [the] law,"
Sooo, yes, Jesus was born under the law!