Not By Works

[Ralph-]

what is the difference between you and a sinner who is not on the narrow path?

The true believer is changed and does not 'live in' sin anymore. He can't, because God's seed lives in Him. He may stumble into sin, but he does not live in it. It's the difference between being a new creation through faith in Christ and not being a new creation. If we are not changed we are not saved.

We are to examine ourselves so we can be ready when Jesus comes back. It's too late to get saved when Jesus comes back. You have to already have oil in your lamp when he gets here. People need to stop resisting this truth and arguing that they are saved in their old unchanged lives because salvation is not by works. They need to get born again.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

hebrews 10
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

______
Matthew 18:12-14
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Not quite. They actually end up being revealed as to what they truly are, dogs and swine, showing they were not sheep in the first place; 2 Peter 2:22.

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:20-22


Please explain how it is a person can escape the pollutions of this world, and to know the way of righteousness, unless they are born again?

Then to go back and be entangled in them and overcome, plainly means the person was delivered and set free, then went back having become lost.


This principle of His sheep becoming lost is plainly taught in the Gospels.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.

Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.

• Lost Sheep:

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

• Lost Coin:

Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:10

• Prodigal Son

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32



This foundational truth can not be changed by quoting other scriptures.


Those who repent and then later, are unfaithful and return to serving sin and obeying unrighteousness, have wandered [like a sheep who has become lost], from the truth and is lined to a sinner.

Here, read it for yourself.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
• if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
• wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom.
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.



JPT

 

[Ralph-]

hebrews 10
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Yes, make sure you are of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
You know that by if you are changed or not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They can start out as sheep, then become lost.

Thats not what Jesu says

he says HIS SHEEP hear HIS VOICE, and when they walk away,. He leaves the whole flock to go find them, and when he does HIS SHEEP Hear HIS VOICE and follow him, those sheep who ARE NOT HIS SHEEP do not hear his voice and thus do not come.

You do not become christs sheep. Then not his sheep, then his sheep again, Tghen not his sheep.

Your either his or you are not.Even his sheep can go astray, but he always goes to get them and they ALWAYS return.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yes, make sure you are of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
You know that by if you are changed or not.

well to be honest.... i think i agree with this

_______________

here is a post before i fully trusted in the promises of God

but just 5 years ago i was in unbelief

living in fornication

never having read the bible

and just around 3 years ago i actually started reading it if i remember right because my heart had been changed and maybe 4 years ago is when i KNEW Jesus was real and i couldnt go without learning more

and not even 1 year ago
around the time i finished the bible and started going back to things seeking truths i missed

is when other people started mentioning the change in me through my actions



i wont lie

sometimes i wonder about my salvation

but i know Jesus is the truth and the way

so i will continue pressing forward... God willing

and maybe
if my faith is in Him

he will save me

i believe he can

and i believe he will if my faith in him is true because the inspired scriptures say so...

but like most people

there are times when i see my performance...
where i do things that... are NOT of the Holy spirit

and in these times i wonder


then i remember that they call the enemy the accuser

and i think about spiritual warfare


hahaha

i didnt want to ramble man...

maybe im not the best example for assurance
....

seeing the changes in me

seeing God truely did make me a new creature

is part of what helped me know i was His sheep


but these changes dont save me...
the imputed righteousness of Jesus will

 

[Locutus]

The true believer is changed and does not 'live in' sin anymore. He can't, because God's seed lives in Him. He may stumble into sin, but he does not live in it. It's the difference between being a new creation through faith in Christ and not being a new creation. If we are not changed we are not saved.

We are to examine ourselves so we can be ready when Jesus comes back. It's too late to get saved when Jesus comes back. You have to already have oil in your lamp when he gets here. People need to stop resisting this truth and arguing that they are saved in their old unchanged lives because salvation is not by works. They need to get born again.

 

[preacher4truth]

Please explain how it is a person can escape the pollutions of this world, and to know the way of righteousness, unless they are born again?

JPT,

That is a good question.

First, concerning the sons of the Kingdom being cast out, you must understand this as meaning those Jews who thought the Kingdom to be theirs, whether by lineage to Abraham, or, by their alleged keeping of the Law. Jesus is then making a point, they will be cast out, in other words they will not enter the Kingdom, but will be on the outside. It is not a proof text of losing salvation, you're misusing the text there brother. "Sons of the kingdom" does not mean saved, it is referring to what they thought was their rightful position. Jesus words to them were shocking and solemn.

As to the above, great question no doubt:

Any lost person can turn from the pollutions of the world, and can also know the way of righteousness, but remain lost.

Your bolding of the word know is to press upon it a meaning (possibly) that they had an intimate knowledge of this, used to force upon the text as if meaning and proving salvation so as to assume them lost from such a state. I don't believe that to be the case or sense of the text and will explain as to why.

Peter here is speaking, contextually, of false teachers. They had known the truth, yet they had not been converted. Nothing in the text states they were converted.

Note, he addresses the converted in the passage intimately, (2 Peter 1:1 as "those" and throughout as "us" or "ours") then points to the false teachers and others in a different sense, showing they are not among the saved and as distinct from the elect. He doesn't refer to them with the same intimacy at all, instead he makes a distinction.

Evidence of them being in such a state of being false teachers and having a false profession is witnessed in their latter demise. Paul as well alludes to this in 2 Timothy 3:13, calling these deceivers "evil people" and "impostors" who were also surely among the redeemed as was the case of those to whom Peter writes. But that they may be found out, Paul describes them as well in this sense; they go from worse to worse, deceiving and being deceived, showing themselves also to be false teachers, 2 Timothy 3:13 and so are impostors, not sheep. It is the same scenario in 2 Peter 2 brother. Scripture interprets Scripture.

 

[preacher4truth]

Poor "Ralph-" he seems to believe he is the only person going to heaven. He also makes sure he tells us what we believe, when we don't, and that we live in sin, when we don't.

Seems dead set on securing us a place in hell, gleefully. Wow!

 

[TruthTalk]

False teacher's with a false gospel are teaching a false christ which will lead people down a path of despair and destruction. All Christians should warn people about false teacher's and call them out in public. I realize that this is offensive to some people and that is one reason why the church appoints Elders and Deacons to discipline believers who are teaching a counterfeit gospel within the congregation.

False teachers are dangerous.

"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." Romans16:17

 

[TruthTalk]

JPT,

That is a good question.

Note, he addresses the converted in the passage intimately, (2 Peter 1:1 as "those" and throughout as "us" or "ours") then points to the false teachers and others in a different sense, showing they are not among the saved and as distinct from the elect. He doesn't refer to them with the same intimacy at all, instead he makes a distinction.

Evidence of them being in such a state of being false teachers and having a false profession is witnessed in their latter demise. Paul as well alludes to this in 2 Timothy 3:13, calling these deceivers "evil people" and "impostors" who were also surely among the redeemed as was the case of those to whom Peter writes. But that they may be found out, Paul describes them as well in this sense; they go from worse to worse, deceiving and being deceived, showing themselves also to be false teachers, 2 Timothy 3:13 and so are impostors, not sheep. It is the same scenario in 2 Peter 2 brother. Scripture interprets Scripture.

Thank you Preacher for pointing out publicly the shame of false teachers in the Church,
"they are deceivers and impostors"

You can sugar coat your false teaching all that you want but it is spiritual poison to all those who drink up their lies.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

False teacher's with a false gospel are teaching a false christ which will lead people down a path of despair and destruction. All Christians should warn people about false teacher's and call them out in public. I realize that this is offensive to some people and that is one reason why the church appoints Elders and Deacons to discipline believers who are teaching a counterfeit gospel within the congregation.

False teachers are dangerous.

"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." Romans16:17

when i came here

i believed myself to be wise enough to be a teacher

and i twisted scripture unknowingly

i mainly targeted dcon
but i also targeted a lovely woman named ariel on a previous account

sometimes openly

sometime subtle

i tried to get them to believe sin in your life means you do not love God...

through God using gentle members like billG
more firm members like p4t
and the constant defense of the truth from people like dcon (special thanks to you brother.... i accused you the most)

(ariel,magenta, desertrose all helped me too)

i was able to be broken from what i had came to believe
God showed me that MAYBE i wasnt as wise as i thought

so i prayed and prayed to not want to be right
but for Him to show me what HE wants me to see

even if it makes me look like an idiot....

and slowly
verses started having deeper meanings
the bible opened up to me in a whole new way

and my salvation no longer was centered around MY battle with sin or flesh....

but all on Jesus

and since this change

i have been delivered from many more sins

but thats not what i lay my hope in...

i think that all the brothers and sisters here

have their function as members of the body of Christ

but we should be careful not to speak poorly of eachother out of malice

but speak only truth about eachother

be it reproof or encouragement



(i have nothin against standing up to false teachers or those with twisted gospels... it saved my life)

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

BOO!

[/QUOTE]​

Wow. Calvin worked out! Where did he find the time?

Haven't you heard? Faith without workouts is dead?

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

 

[preacher4truth]

False teacher's with a false gospel are teaching a false christ which will lead people down a path of despair and destruction. All Christians should warn people about false teacher's and call them out in public. I realize that this is offensive to some people and that is one reason why the church appoints Elders and Deacons to discipline believers who are teaching a counterfeit gospel within the congregation.

False teachers are dangerous.

"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." Romans16:17

You mean we're not to lend them an ear?

 

[dcontroversal]

And that Spirit is the Spirit of truth ...I was reading that this morning while drinking my coffee, Jesus telling us that He will not leave us as orphans, that He will send us His helper, Oh how comforting to know that we are not left on our own...Morning Hiz...xox...

Amen......two definite articles and a "be" verb .....The Spirit is The Truth........nice Rose.....

 

[Shamah]

And that Spirit is the Spirit of truth ...I was reading that this morning while drinking my coffee, Jesus telling us that He will not leave us as orphans, that He will send us His helper, Oh how comforting to know that we are not left on our own...Morning Hiz...xox...

Probably the most comforting thing know He is with us during our trials and even errors to pick up and and guide us to Him. Wanting us to be in unity with Him. The most important thing a human can do IMO. Be well precious Rosemary praiuse and glory to Yah!

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 17:17-24, “Set them apart in Your truth – Your Word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world. And for them I set Myself apart, so that they too might be set apart in truth."That they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me, I have given them; that they may be in unity, just as We are in unity. I in them, and You in Me--so that they may be made perfect in unity; and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them, as You have loved Me. Father, it is My will that they, whom You gave Me, also be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 17:14, “Heal me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], so that I am healed. Save me, so that I am saved, for You are my praise.”[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

Look at how Ralph has divided the room. All because one tried to be nice to him.

I hope people realise that is his goal. To divide us,. And get us angry at each other in hopes of getting some of us banned because we said something.

again, I recommend we stop giving this person who has declaried war on calvin, and only looks through calvin lenses an audience. There is being nice and Christlike, ands their is enabling.
’

I agree....he spews the same drivel as she did and a few others.....a waste of time!

 

[TruthTalk]

when i came here

i believed myself to be wise enough to be a teacher

and i twisted scripture unknowingly

i mainly targeted dcon
but i also targeted a lovely woman named ariel on a previous account

sometimes openly

sometime subtle

i tried to get them to believe sin in your life means you do not love God...

through God using gentle members like billG
more firm members like p4t
and the constant defense of the truth from people like dcon (special thanks to you brother.... i accused you the most)

(ariel,magenta, desertrose all helped me too)

i was able to be broken from what i had came to believe
God showed me that MAYBE i wasnt as wise as i thought

so i prayed and prayed to not want to be right
but for Him to show me what HE wants me to see

even if it makes me look like an idiot....

and slowly
verses started having deeper meanings
the bible opened up to me in a whole new way

and my salvation no longer was centered around MY battle with sin or flesh....

but all on Jesus

and since this change

i have been delivered from many more sins

but thats not what i lay my hope in...

i think that all the brothers and sisters here

have their function as members of the body of Christ

but we should be careful not to speak poorly of eachother out of malice

but speak only truth about eachother

be it reproof or encouragement

(i have nothin against standing up to false teachers or those with twisted gospels... it saved my life)

Thank you for, "standing up to false teachers", it will help build up your faith and edify the church body. I have seen false teachers divide a congregation until every one was gone. Not even the Pastor would take a stand because he did not want to upset some people, very sad. I will give thought to what you say, thanks and God bless.

 

[dcontroversal]

Odd. You just condemned the apostle Paul:

" I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate to do....For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil that I do not want to do - this I keep on doing" (Romans 7:15, 18-19)

All present tense, Ralph.



And have you "grown out of sin" yet, Ralph?



That's not what it says at all, Ralph. It says a believer will not, nor can not sin. It says nothing about "going on sinning". It says we can't sin at all.

Try again.



Yet you yourself go on sinning - every single day - thus, by your own admission, you are not saved.

God does not grade on a curve, Ralph. If even one sin is attributed to us, we are damned. Whether a person commits one murder or one thousand, they are a murderer. If a person only steals one thing or one thousand items, they are a thief. The Bible says even one lie will keep us out of heaven. (Revelation 21:8).

You are so obsessed with doing works to prove you are a believer, but the Bible says; "However, to the one who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

And: "If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, as if through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:15)

A lack of good works will cost a Christian rewards at the Judgment Seat, and sin will earn earthly chastisement from the Lord, but they themselves will remain saved - despite what you preach, Ralph.

Just think if Eve would have paid attention to the embellished word from the snake.......seems the workes for, laywers and Pharisees cannot help but embellish, ignore context, ignore verb tense, ignore verbiage in order to push their "loaded half baked tater false gospel"