Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

Here is Ralph- calling others lost. Several on here love to allude to others as lost, not transformed &c. Cee has also done this recently as well in another thread, assertions the learned, theologians and scholars aren't transformed, just have knowledge. Others here are well known for this. The glaring error here is the Spirit gives this insight and knowledge to these men, while men mock them arrogantly and diregard them.

How do you all get off telling others they're lost and not transformed while asserting your own spiritual insight, acumen, discernment, interpretations, but condemn others, while spouting your own prowess?

You all really should just stop that nonsense.

Its the same thing that Paul confronted concerning circumcision. Boasting in works is what these are trying to get us to do. But, our boast is in the Lord.

Gal 6:12 These people who want to impress others by their external appearance are trying to force you to be circumcised, simply to avoid being persecuted for the cross of the Messiah.


Gal 6:13 Why, not even those who are circumcised obey the Law! They simply want you to be circumcised so that they can boast about your external appearance.


Gal 6:14 But may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world!


Gal 6:15 For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision matters. Rather, what matters is being a new creation. (Works seen)


Gal 6:16 Now may peace be on all those who live by this principle, and may mercy be on the Israel of God.

our circumcision is of the heart. Flesh, the human nature with its frailties both physical and moral, and it's passions.

Cut off by unseen hands from above. That our works originate there too.

 

[Limey410v2]

Its the same thing that Paul confronted concerning circumcision. Boasting in works is what these are trying to get us to do. But, our boast is in the Lord.

Gal 6:12 These people who want to impress others by their external appearance are trying to force you to be circumcised, simply to avoid being persecuted for the cross of the Messiah.


Gal 6:13 Why, not even those who are circumcised obey the Law! They simply want you to be circumcised so that they can boast about your external appearance.


Gal 6:14 But may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world!


Gal 6:15 For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision matters. Rather, what matters is being a new creation. (Works seen)


Gal 6:16 Now may peace be on all those who live by this principle, and may mercy be on the Israel of God.

our circumcision is of the heart. Flesh, the human nature with its frailties both physical and moral, and it's passions.

Cut off by unseen hands from above. That our works originate there too.

Clear and concise as always. Thanks Stones!!

 

[Ralph-]

our circumcision is of the heart. Flesh, the human nature with its frailties both physical and moral, and it's passions.

Cut off by unseen hands from above. That our works originate there too.

You show that you have the circumcision done by unseen hands and are saved by how you live. The person who is still living in his old life of uncircumcised lawless disobedience is not saved and will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns. You should not find this offensive since this is exactly what old school Calvinist once saved always saved doctrine teaches. Did you know this?

If you say you believe that doctrine then you should be coming down on everyone in this thread who is saying it doesn't matter how you live after believing because it can't change what is already set in place. They don't realize that how they live shows if salvation was really set in place to begin with.

So what are you? The old once saved always saved, or the new once saved always saved which says you can live any way you want to after believing and it doesn't matter to your salvation (which we are prohibited from discussing).

 

[Zi]

What are you? Surely badgering and aggression are not the work of the Spirit..

Why don't you lead by example? Let's see what an heir of the Kingdom looks like

You show that you have the circumcision done by unseen hands and are saved by how you live. The person who is still living in his old life of uncircumcised lawless disobedience is not saved and will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns. You should not find this offensive since this is exactly what old school Calvinist once saved always saved doctrine teaches. Did you know this?

If you say you believe that doctrine then you should be coming down on everyone in this thread who is saying it doesn't matter how you live after believing because it can't change what is already set in place. They don't realize that how they live shows if salvation was really set in place to begin with.

So what are you? The old once saved always saved, or the new once saved always saved which says you can live any way you want to after believing and it doesn't matter to your salvation (which we are prohibited from discussing).

 

[TruthTalk]

Amen! Stonesoffire and God bless.

Its the same thing that Paul confronted concerning circumcision. Boasting in works is what these are trying to get us to do. But, our boast is in the Lord.

Amen! Preacher and God bless.

How do you all get off telling others they're lost and not transformed while asserting your own spiritual insight, acumen, discernment, interpretations, but condemn others, while spouting your own prowess?

You all really should just stop that nonsense.

 

[preacher4truth]

The person who is still living in his old life of uncircumcised lawless disobedience is not saved and will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns. You should not find this offensive since this is exactly what old school Calvinist once saved always saved doctrine teaches.

stonesoffire, he wants to know if you are aware that lost people aren't going to heaven. Shocking isn't it? What a travesty to teach this!

 

[7777pinacled]

You show that you have the circumcision done by unseen hands and are saved by how you live. The person who is still living in his old life of uncircumcised lawless disobedience is not saved and will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns. You should not find this offensive since this is exactly what old school Calvinist once saved always saved doctrine teaches. Did you know this?

If you say you believe that doctrine then you should be coming down on everyone in this thread who is saying it doesn't matter how you live after believing because it can't change what is already set in place. They don't realize that how they live shows if salvation was really set in place to begin with.

So what are you? The old once saved always saved, or the new once saved always saved which says you can live any way you want to after believing and it doesn't matter to your salvation (which we are prohibited from discussing).

So long as she has a man to speak for her she is one with the Lord, gracefully glowing in the royal law.

A livelystone as I've ever met.

 

[TruthTalk]

There is no such doctrine of the Church as "OSAS", it is a weak
tangled web that you weave.

Call it the Bugs Bunny "doctrine of once saved always saved" if you like.

 

[Ralph-]

stonesoffire, he wants to know if you are aware that lost people aren't going to heaven. Shocking isn't it? What a travesty to teach this!

No, I want to know if you people are aware that lawless disobedient people are not going to heaven. Contrary to what people are insisting here, lawless disobedient people are not saved people. Their lawless disobedient lives showing they are not saved. This is basic Calvinist teaching. Yet I'm being blasted for saying it.

 

[Ralph-]

There is no such doctrine of the Church as "OSAS", it is a weak
tangled web that you weave.

I see you have no explanation for your contradictory stance about works either.

 

[preacher4truth]

No, I want to know if you people are aware that lawless disobedient people are not going to heaven. Contrary to what people are insisting here, lawless disobedient people are not saved people. Their lawless disobedient lives showing they are not saved. This is basic Calvinist teaching. Yet I'm being blasted for saying it.

"You people?" Yes we understand lost people aren't going to heaven. You've been told this over and over.

Did you know that liars aren't going to heaven? I think you're not aware of that. You are now.

 

[Ralph-]

What are you? Surely badgering and aggression are not the work of the Spirit..

Why don't you lead by example? Let's see what an heir of the Kingdom looks like

I'm not going to be PC about this issue. If that appears like badgering and aggression to you then so be it.

If you want a PC preacher that's afraid to call the disobedient out to true salvation you've got plenty to choose from here. I'm not one of them and I'm not ashamed of it.

 

[Ralph-]

Yes we understand lost people aren't going to heaven. You've been told this over and over.

Are you purposely avoiding what I'm saying? Lawless disobedient people are the lost people who won't enter the kingdom.

You can be a spineless PC preacher that's too afraid to call the disobedient out to an honest examination of themselves to see if they have a real salvation or not if you want. But I'm not going to be one of those.

You of all people not defending Calvin teaching about eternal security. Interesting.

 

[stonesoffire]

Clear and concise as always. Thanks Stones!!

thank you limey. I appreciate it. Must get caught up again. Interruptions!

 

[Limey410v2]

Are you purposely avoiding what I'm saying? Lawless disobedient people are the lost people who won't enter the kingdom.

You can be a spineless PC preacher that's too afraid to call the disobedient out to an honest examination of themselves to see if they have a real salvation or not if you want. But I'm not going to be one of those.

You of all people not agreeing with Calvin teaching. Interesting.

Your problem is that you truly do not understand what real Salvation is. How can you call people to something you know nothing about? A spine you may have, the truth you do not. (Is that un PC enough for you).

 

[UnderGrace]

Ralphie,

Who are these lawless disobedient people you have such a problem with?

This seems very personal.

You are confusing preservation of the saints with perseverance of the saints, in a reductionist way, making it very difficult to even discuss these rationally with you.

I do not mind discussion but emotions need to stay in check.

No, I want to know if you people are aware that lawless disobedient people are not going to heaven. Contrary to what people are insisting here, lawless disobedient people are not saved people. Their lawless disobedient lives showing they are not saved. This is basic Calvinist teaching. Yet I'm being blasted for saying it.

 

[VCO]

Start a thread about the Calvin teaching of once saved always saved. I doubt there is nothing about it that I have not heard or understood correctly.

For this thread, the point in Calvin's teaching that is being ignored is the part about the true believer persevering to the very end and not falling away. Yet so many here getting their undies in a bunch about my claim that you show yourself to not be a true believer by not having works when Jesus comes back. Which is what Calvin teaches. I'm in no way disagreeing with Calvin on that. But I'm being attacked as if I am. Go figure.

Romans 5:8-10 (NRSV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more surely then, now that we have been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life.


John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life {It is not Eternal if you can Lose it or Forfeit it}, and they will never perish—ever! {THAT makes it PERMANENT} No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] The Father and I are one.”


John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes in the Son has eternal life {That eternal life means it is permanent.}, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. {That word Believes carries a deeper meaning in the Greek, that involves putting your whole trust in what you believe.}



1 John 5:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. {NOTICE: WE are not the GUARDIANS of our Salvation, HE IS.}
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The one who has the Son has life. The one who doesn’t have the Son of God does not have life.



1 John 5:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true One. We are in the true One—that is, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. {IT IS NOT ETERNAL if you can Lose it or Forfeit it.}



How is this TRUE? NOT EVERYONE WHO CALL HIM LORD, IS A TRUE CHRISTIAN.


Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

 

[preacher4truth]

Are you purposely avoiding what I'm saying? Lawless disobedient people are the lost people who won't enter the kingdom.

You can be a spineless PC preacher that's too afraid to call the disobedient out to an honest examination of themselves to see if they have a real salvation or not if you want. But I'm not going to be one of those.

We've already established lost people won't go to heaven. We've said it over and over and over to ad nauseum yet you pretend you don't see it.

Open your eyes.

Then you resort to callow ad hominem. Your own behavior betrays what you say you believe as you lie about others along with vitriol. Perhaps you think you're exempt. That must be what it is.

 

[preacher4truth]

You of all people not defending Calvin teaching about eternal security. Interesting.

And more lies.

 

[preacher4truth]

I'd suggest putting this dude on ignore. He clearly doesn't read what you say and acts like you don't believe what you've clearly espoused.

Over and over and over.

Then he lies.

Enough already.