Not By Works

[limey410]

Well blue, let me be frank, I love you, and the particular dispute that is going on
I do not think you have grasped fully.

All I am sharing is the cross washed us and made us clean. As clean holy, purified
people Christ expects us to continue like this. This is all I am saying amen to.

All the disputes are because very contorted and stubborn people hate dealing with
sin and want to stay in their ways, often because they identify themselves with this
behaviour. So they invent God is happy with them, and it does not really matter,
God only sees Jesus and ignores their garbage behaviour.

Paul says this,

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4:7

You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
2 Peter 3:11-12

It's not that I hate dealing with sin, its that I don't have to, Christ already paid that price. I struggle with my sin, the difference is that I fully trust that what was accomplished was accomplished, so now I have a new life in Christ, as I walk that life, I no longer focus on sin, I focus on Him, the One that washed it away. My heart has been purified by Him. I can then sin less, because of the Holy Spirit I am given everything I need. I can then more easily say no to temptation.
You just look at it backwards, that you have to say no to temptation before God saves you (or will keep you saved).

 

[BillG]

Ephesians 2:8-10
8: For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9: not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10: For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


2:8-9: Details how a person is saved. The Good News that people are made righteous through trust in Christ rather than through their own merit.

The past tense of the verb saved in this passage indicates that the believer’s salvation has already occurred in the past, at the Cross. the gift of God:

Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done.
Salvation is for those who trust Christ alone to save them. As a result, none of us can boast about it.


2:8: sōzō I save, heal, preserve, rescue.
2:8: charis. grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ
2:8: pistis. faith, belief, trust




2:10: He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us: Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation. God’s Spirit, working through a transformed heart, produces a good life.

 

[JIMBO43]

One thing I DO agree with you on, Jimbo.. Is the fact that satan runs rampant on this site.. yes indeed he does. And he's having a field day with all the hate, strife, fighting, arguing, and name calling that gets done here on a daily basis..

Well its to be expected coz ya cant stop satan from taking someone captive.... But ya can spot them and if you have knowledge you can break through but for some it takes prayer and fasting...

Thats what Jesus said theres only one way to rid some demons through prayer and fasting...Funny how he mentions fasting why isnt prayer enough ?...

Anyhows maybe its because as the flesh gets week the spirit can recieve prayer... who knows ?

anyways while you may disagree with much that i say You may also know and should know that seeing is believeing... as in doubting thomas he believed after he seen.

So i have seen spirits and even my mum God bless her soul... i havent seen mary or Jesus Or God all tho im sure some old geezer one day was visited by some one verry special... we both seem to rise in spirit... totally amazing.....

And then theres a time at church all our spirits where rising up it was a total outer body experience i could see everyone hundreds of gazing eyes just leave there bodies sort of like mind travel....totaly amazing experince... personaly i feal Gods keep on having to show me hes real i think.... or maybe he just has diffrent ways of dealing with people faith...

So maybe if you had seen what ive seen you would know where im coming from... anyhows thanks for not calling me a liar...i normally get called that...but like water of a ducks i just rise above it...

Oh yeah and communion is from Prayer is a forgone conclusion That you being saved daily...

So for the ones who say well i dont get my prayers answered so im not saved well i say i dont get all mine answered either.. But then maybe i wasnt in unity when i prayed...

 

[blue_ladybug]

Bill, what you seem to not understand, is that we DON'T need to get saved DAILY. Salvation is a one-time deal. You have it forever unless you deny God and stop believing in Him altogether.. You do not need to take communion to get saved, or to remain saved.. Jesus died only ONCE on that cross, He has no need to die daily to save us from our sins.

 

[dcontroversal]

dc - well done you have spotted why you are excluded.

Paul only says the ceremonial aspect of the law, issues relating to Israel and the temple
are no longer relevant. But righteousness and the law of Christ is our benchmark, our lightening
rod, our truth.

It is why Paul says we fulfill Christs law by loving our neighbour. By walking in the spirit we are
not ticking off legal laws, we are loving and meeting needs and in the process fulfilling the law,
so that when we look at the law we say amen, I am doing this.

If you look at the law and say, opps, hate that, no that is wrong, cannot do this, that is terrible,
my heart definately wants this and not that, there are some real issues that need addressing.

The hyper legalists need to lighten up and learn about loving themselves and stopping being self
condemning and running themselves down all the time, but they are a specialist group.

dc - when you talk of a false gospel, if you do not desire to walk righteously, you have it all.

Not hardly pal.....the exact opposite to be quite frank....I have trusted Jesus knowing full well that I cannot keep the law, nor can you no matter how much you may think you do...I suggest Jesus and real, genuine faith before you leave this planet pal!

AND the righteousness of Christ WITHOUT the law is APPLIED BY FAITH and BLOOD to me pal....wake up the righteousness of Christ!

 

[dcontroversal]

works have 0 to do with salvation..... but if there is no work being done in you, how can you claim to have a new heart? loving the world and sins more than your Father in heaven? haha.... definitely our works are nothing..... but The Holy spirit can give you assurance though his works in you

No one has disputed that bro.....the bible is clear on the following truths

Paul-->Romans-->A man is justified (rendered innocent) before God by faith void of works
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that justifies before God (void of works) is seen by men in our works

FAITH and FAITH alone saves eternally
FAITH that saves eternally will produce fruit/works....even if but one piece!

 

[dcontroversal]

theres a difference between accidental and habitual sin.... if your life revolves around drinking and fornicating and swearing and eating and no thought of the price Jesus paid for you.... it should be obvious what you truely love

sin is sin is sin......David was and is a saved child of God and speaks to his salvation in the Psalms...yet he willingly took Bathsheba and had Uriah killed....he paid the price by the following

a. His firstborn with Bathsheba was taken by God<--Picture of the innocent Son of David (Jesus) paying the price
b. The sword was in his house all the days of his life
c. He had rebellious sons
d. Sickness in his old age

All in the form of chastisement.....yet through the whole process David's salvation was secure

To break one of the least of the commandments of God makes one guilty of them all......

 

[dcontroversal]

Well blue, let me be frank, I love you, and the particular dispute that is going on
I do not think you have grasped fully.



All the disputes are because very contorted and stubborn people hate dealing with
sin and want to stay in their ways, often because they identify themselves with this
behaviour. So they invent God is happy with them, and it does not really matter,
God only sees Jesus and ignores their garbage behaviour.

The above...

a. Reeks of ignorance
b. States clearly that you have not listened to one word that we have spoken
c. You live in a delusional world

 

[blue_ladybug]

Oopsy, this was in reply to Jimbo, not BillG.. My apologies..

Bill, what you seem to not understand, is that we DON'T need to get saved DAILY. Salvation is a one-time deal. You have it forever unless you deny God and stop believing in Him altogether.. You do not need to take communion to get saved, or to remain saved.. Jesus died only ONCE on that cross, He has no need to die daily to save us from our sins.

 

[BillG]

sin is sin is sin......David was and is a saved child of God and speaks to his salvation in the Psalms...yet he willingly took Bathsheba and had Uriah killed....he paid the price by the following

a. His firstborn with Bathsheba was taken by God<--Picture of the innocent Son of David (Jesus) paying the price
b. The sword was in his house all the days of his life
c. He had rebellious sons
d. Sickness in his old age

All in the form of chastisement.....yet through the whole process David's salvation was secure

To break one of the least of the commandments of God makes one guilty of them all......

If think about it David probably broke all of the 10 commandments and yes he suffered the temporal consequences.

In fact David committed adultery which was punishable by DEATH.

Yet he wasn't.

We find God sending Nathan to David and the end of conversation is as follows

2 Samuel 12:13-14


So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.”

Why was David spared death?

Acts 13:22-23
And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, “I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’ From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior—Jesus—

1 Samuel 13:14
But now your kingdom shall not continue. The Lord has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what the Lord commanded you.”

This is David, a man after Gods heart.

Psalms 51:12-17
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
And sinners shall be converted to You.
Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
The God of my salvation,
And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
O Lord, open my lips,
And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

 

[BillG]

Oopsy, this was in reply to Jimbo, not BillG.. My apologies..

The sky had gone grey but now it's gone blue.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Actually the sky here IS blue today.. The rain finally stopped and the sun is shining in the big blue sky..woo hoo

The sky had gone grey but now it's gone blue.

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually the sky here IS blue today.. The rain finally stopped and the sun is shining in the big blue sky..woo hoo

AMEN and spring has sprung AHAHHA woooohooooo

 

[PeterJens]

The above...

a. Reeks of ignorance
b. States clearly that you have not listened to one word that we have spoken
c. You live in a delusional world

dc - this is a binary choice here.

1. Yes one can walk righteously
2. If you claim you do not you are choosing to do so.
3. By holding to this you are denying that God is displeased

1. No you cannot walk righteously
2. If you claim you can walk righteously you are lying
3. By holding to this you are denying Christ has forgiven you despite your failure

The deciding factor is Jesus walk without sin and we are called to walk like
Jesus. People are not called to do the impossible, but realise in Christ
all things are possible

 

[PeterJens]

I wonder when people can rejoice in the fact we love Jesus and allow individuals
to express this in a way that makes sense to them.

Our Father who called us over time will bring love to work and make everything
plain. Do you believe this?

 

[dcontroversal]

dc - this is a binary choice here.

1. Yes one can walk righteously
2. If you claim you do not you are choosing to do so.
3. By holding to this you are denying that God is displeased

1. No you cannot walk righteously
2. If you claim you can walk righteously you are lying
3. By holding to this you are denying Christ has forgiven you despite your failure

The deciding factor is Jesus walk without sin and we are called to walk like
Jesus. People are not called to do the impossible, but realise in Christ
all things are possible

PETER, are you as dense as lead? My comments are directed at your foolishness and the comment below that lacks any credence....for once in your life ADMIT THE TRUTH and acknowledge your fallacies....and you wonder WHY I call you a CAKE TAKER....YOU take the cake for CONTRADICTIONS, MISQUOTES, MISAPPLIED STATEMENTS and a TOTAL lack of HONESTY with what is said by ANYONE that disagrees with YOU.....THE bolded below is a flat LIE, FALSE ACCUSATION and MISREPRESENTATION of the TRUTH.......

Originally Posted by PeterJens

Well blue, let me be frank, I love you, and the particular dispute that is going on
I do not think you have grasped fully.



All the disputes are because very contorted and stubborn people hate dealing with
sin and want to stay in their ways, often because they identify themselves with this
behaviour. So they invent God is happy with them, and it does not really matter,
God only sees Jesus and ignores their garbage behavior.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

If think about it David probably broke all of the 10 commandments and yes he suffered the temporal consequences.

In fact David committed adultery which was punishable by DEATH.

Yet he wasn't.

We find God sending Nathan to David and the end of conversation is as follows

2 Samuel 12:13-14


So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.”

Why was David spared death?

Acts 13:22-23
And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, “I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’ From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior—Jesus—

1 Samuel 13:14
But now your kingdom shall not continue. The Lord has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what the Lord commanded you.”

This is David, a man after Gods heart.

Psalms 51:12-17
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
And sinners shall be converted to You.
Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
The God of my salvation,
And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
O Lord, open my lips,
And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

David repented and got right with God. the true life of a Christian that wonders off the path for too far.

 

[PeterJens]

PETER, are you as dense as lead? My comments are directed at your foolishness and the comment below that lacks any credence

dc - lol. In the world of scripture sin is sin.

You do not like being told you are rebelling against God by continuing in sin.
But by your own confession that is what you are doing, and to do otherwise is
impossible.

Now in my interpretation, you are doing exactly this. Why are you getting so annoyed,
what matters to you is Jesus forgives you all the time, no matter how small or big your
sins are. Do you hate me repeating what you believe, because it sounds bad, or wrong?

Or is it that I do not agree with you, that annoys you so?

I am not annoyed with sinless perfectionist because good on them, if they can do this.
I am not their judge, I am not going to stand over them and play God. Most of these guys
soon find they still have a way to go.

And what you have not grasped is though I do sin, I make mistakes, I am growing in Gods
grace and love and being transformed, so these issues are going away. Do I know all that
is sin and all that is just an issue? No. But I press on towards the goal of loving and serving.

And when I become aware of sin I repent and confess it. So I might get very annoyed about
a dangerous driver, but filming them will help, possibly getting them reported. Why because
people die as a result of such behaviour. Getting annoyed does not help, but dealing with it
does.

You say I am dense. I am certainly not dense.

Lawlessness I will stand up to, so sin that is ok needs to be listed. Are you ok with murder,
adultery, theft, covetousness, false testimony, profanity, dishonouring ones parents, idolatry?

Or are we talking about being rude, not reading ones bible when you are convicted about it,
getting angry with someone, taking revenge, fantasing about inappropriate behaviour?

Or is it feeling hungry and eating something is selfish and not honouring God so sin.
Relaxing in front of TV or eating chocolates, or following sport too much.

Now I know where I am when I say to love your neighbour and to love my brothers and sisters
in the Lord. This does make sense to me. And not doing the obvious sinful behaviour, amen,
and getting a balance in the why I do things and who I serve with what end.

So apart from the words, we can in the end up living very similar lives in very similar ways.
So this makes me think theology can become a battle over nothing, just language with a loving
Lord loving us despite our views. I hope you can see, life can have some final ironies.

 

[JIMBO43]

Restore to me the joy of Your salvation, (DAVID SPEAKING TO GOD...

so in a nut shell david wanted his joy restoring of being in unity and communion because he hasnt been walking in th light.. so you could get restored daily

 

[dcontroversal]

You have no ability or humility to admit your lies and error....don't engage me as I am tired of your dishonesty, lies, misrepresentation of the truth and false pretense! AND quote the whole quote so people can see your deception.

PETER, are you as dense as lead? My comments are directed at your foolishness and the comment below that lacks any credence....for once in your life ADMIT THE TRUTH and acknowledge your fallacies....and you wonder WHY I call you a CAKE TAKER....YOU take the cake for CONTRADICTIONS, MISQUOTES, MISAPPLIED STATEMENTS and a TOTAL lack of HONESTY with what is said by ANYONE that disagrees with YOU.....THE bolded below is a flat LIE, FALSE ACCUSATION and MISREPRESENTATION of the TRUTH.......

Originally Posted by PeterJens

Well blue, let me be frank, I love you, and the particular dispute that is going on
I do not think you have grasped fully.



All the disputes are because very contorted and stubborn people hate dealing with
sin and want to stay in their ways, often because they identify themselves with this
behaviour. So they invent God is happy with them, and it does not really matter,
God only sees Jesus and ignores their garbage behavior.

dc - lol. In the world of scripture sin is sin.

You do not like being told you are rebelling against God by continuing in sin.
But by your own confession that is what you are doing, and to do otherwise is
impossible.

Now in my interpretation, you are doing exactly this. Why are you getting so annoyed,
what matters to you is Jesus forgives you all the time, no matter how small or big your
sins are. Do you hate me repeating what you believe, because it sounds bad, or wrong?

Or is it that I do not agree with you, that annoys you so?

I am not annoyed with sinless perfectionist because good on them, if they can do this.
I am not their judge, I am not going to stand over them and play God. Most of these guys
soon find they still have a way to go.

And what you have not grasped is though I do sin, I make mistakes, I am growing in Gods
grace and love and being transformed, so these issues are going away. Do I know all that
is sin and all that is just an issue? No. But I press on towards the goal of loving and serving.

And when I become aware of sin I repent and confess it. So I might get very annoyed about
a dangerous driver, but filming them will help, possibly getting them reported. Why because
people die as a result of such behaviour. Getting annoyed does not help, but dealing with it
does.

You say I am dense. I am certainly not dense.

Lawlessness I will stand up to, so sin that is ok needs to be listed. Are you ok with murder,
adultery, theft, covetousness, false testimony, profanity, dishonouring ones parents, idolatry?

Or are we talking about being rude, not reading ones bible when you are convicted about it,
getting angry with someone, taking revenge, fantasing about inappropriate behaviour?

Or is it feeling hungry and eating something is selfish and not honouring God so sin.
Relaxing in front of TV or eating chocolates, or following sport too much.

Now I know where I am when I say to love your neighbour and to love my brothers and sisters
in the Lord. This does make sense to me. And not doing the obvious sinful behaviour, amen,
and getting a balance in the why I do things and who I serve with what end.

So apart from the words, we can in the end up living very similar lives in very similar ways.
So this makes me think theology can become a battle over nothing, just language with a loving
Lord loving us despite our views. I hope you can see, life can have some final ironies.