Not By Works

[notmyown]

That was decided before the casting down of the world by God...it is the cake takers that are hard to convince.......!

dcon, i just love it when you say things like 'the casting down of the world'....

so many of your posts are you referring to Scripture in that way, and it blesses me. thank you!

 

[dcontroversal]

dcon, i just love it when you say things like 'the casting down of the world'....

so many of your posts are you referring to Scripture in that way, and it blesses me. thank you!

Thanks...verbiage as such speaks for sure......

 

[limey410]

Paul covers this topic extensively....he would rather speak a few understandable words as opposed to 10,000 is an unknown LANGUAGE.......there is no evidence that it is required and or relevant to biblical salvation......only cake takers think this.....!

The problem today is that people think that tongues are some "magic" babbling that stirs Jesus into action. The writer is very clear when he testifies to the gift of tongues."a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?8Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[SUP]b[/SUP] 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?” the miracle was that it was very clear what was happening, God let everyone understand so there was zero confusion in the testimony of the event. The word tongues just refers to languages.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I can't even speak in English tongues. Forget about speaking in foreign tongues. lol

 

[dcontroversal]

The problem today is that people think that tongues are some "magic" babbling that stirs Jesus into action. The writer is very clear when he testifies to the gift of tongues."a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?8Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[SUP]b[/SUP]10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?” the miracle was that it was very clear what was happening, God let everyone understand so there was zero confusion in the testimony of the event. The word tongues just refers to languages.

I hear ya...exactly why I said unknown LANGUAGES......really at the end of the day it was the gift of hearing in your own language.....

 

[JohnTalmid]

People who already have salvation, don't need to hope for it. So your view on that is erroneous. Christians disobey God all the time. It's called human nature. But they repent and are forgiven, with their salvation STILL intact. And holy sacrament is NOT to be honored as wedding vows. Wedding vows get broken every day. How honorable is that? LOL .. Holy sacrament doesn't provide salvation, nor does it maintain salvation. I haven't taken sacrament in decades, yet I'm still saved.

The salvation afforded me by Messiah's works on the cross and more important than this is His resurrection. Every time you repent after coming to know of salvation you are putting Messiah up on the cross again. Repentance is the first work we should do after hearing the word. Once a person hears he should be led to do as Messiah and practice the rightousness of the law of life and freedom bought for us with the blood. I seems as if you do the rightous thing by repeatedly repenting however Messiah already died once and for all so you may have a certain hope of salvation to come.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I do the RIGHT thing, and repent of my sins. Yes, Jesus died for one and all,but we are still commanded to repent of our sin each time we do it.. Jesus has saved us from sin, but that does NOT mean that we don't need to repent each time we sin. I've already been granted salvation. I don't need to hope for it, or hope that I can maintain it by doing good works.

The salvation afforded me by Messiah's works on the cross and more important than this is His resurrection. Every time you repent after coming to know of salvation you are putting Messiah up on the cross again. Repentance is the first work we should do after hearing the word. Once a person hears he should be led to do as Messiah and practice the rightousness of the law of life and freedom bought for us with the blood. I seems as if you do the rightous thing by repeatedly repenting however Messiah already died once and for all so you may have a certain hope of salvation to come.

 

[JohnTalmid]

I do the RIGHT thing, and repent of my sins. Yes, Jesus died for one and all,but we are still commanded to repent of our sin each time we do it.. Jesus has saved us from sin, but that does NOT mean that we don't need to repent each time we sin. I've already been granted salvation. I don't need to hope for it, or hope that I can maintain it by doing good works.

Don't you realize you are dead in Messiah Bill? If you are dead in Messiah you are alive to the spirit of the law of life and freedom. You act as if you are not forgiven if as you say must repent again and again for salvation to stick. Instead cultivate a healthy fear of Elohim. Marvel not that the demons flee from you rather that your name is written in the lambs book of life.

 

[fredoheaven]

Ok, so we know we are co-worker's with Christ right? With Christ being the one to commission us to any task of Biblical explanation. So, what's your question? To say: "prove all things" is meaningless without a question God would have be reason to answer. In addition, it is Christ who will give wisdom to those who He wills to give it to. So, our right alignment with God is something to consider as well.

It's already a 150+ pages and I already learn many things about this thread. I can learn from your posts and actually you are doing just fine. You are doing great addressing my point. I have asked a 'foolish' question which it seems you have not yet address but it is alright since that's out of the thread. However, to give a benefit of doubt, here is the question(rehashed)

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Thanks

 

[dcontroversal]

So, your designing straw men positions and trying to pit the truth of grace based salvation firmly grounded in the finished work at the cross to be diametrically opposed to what again?

HAHAHHA no doubt...I like his cake taking statement about false grace.......grace is grace period...and God's extended grace saves us while we are at our worst state of sin and dead in sin....how much easier to keep one saved dia the same grace....it is rather idiotic to label God's grace as insufficient to keep one saved after it has already saved them...!

 

[JohnTalmid]

It's already a 150+ pages and I already learn many things about this thread. I can learn from your posts and actually you are doing just fine. You are doing great addressing my point. I have asked a 'foolish' question which it seems you have not yet address but it is alright since that's out of the thread. However, to give a benefit of doubt, here is the question(rehashed)

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Thanks

Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.
Vs. 32

The word of YHWH my friend. This word has never changed. Obey Elohim and fend for the poor, orphan, and widow among you this is your reasonable task

 

[dcontroversal]

I can't even speak in English tongues. Forget about speaking in foreign tongues. lol

Poly Vu Francias?
Sprechen sie Deutsch?
No habla Espanol?

HAHA

 

[know1]

They were forgiven BECAUSE THEY HAD FAITH, not because they did any work.

So no your wrong.

Again, Name one work which can cause one sin to be forgiven.

Faith is a work of god. So faith is not a work.. Or an act.

Okay, I'll let that go instead of proving otherwise.
And I never said faith was a work. I said in order for believing to be faith or for faith to be faith, it requires a corresponding work, otherwise it's dead, according to James.
Would you agree that anything we do physically would be considered a work?
Would you say verbally speaking or confessing is a work?

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1Jn1:7[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we havefellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Soncleanseth us from all sin. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1Jn1:8[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth isnot in us. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]1Jn1:9[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]our[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Walking in the light still requires you to do physical acts, and according to the above verses, the blood of Jesus will cleanse you of all sin.
But it doesn't stop there. If we verbally CONFESS our sins, God is faithful and just to FORGIVE US OF OUR SINS, AND TO CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.
So we are not forgiven UNTIL we actually verbally confess our sins, which is a work.
That should be proof enough that a work in faith is required for one's forgiveness.
But I have more if you would like me to continue.
Let's take a look at how to get saved, which requires one's sins to be forgiven.
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
Rom10:5[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That theman which doeth those things shall live by them. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Rom10:6[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Saynot in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bringChrist down [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]fromabove[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Rom10:7[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christagain from the dead.) [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Rom10:8[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]even[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which wepreach; [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Rom10:9[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shaltbelieve in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thoushalt be saved. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Rom10:10[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with themouth confession is made unto salvation. [/FONT][/FONT]

Take note, that salvation is NOT made UNTIL one CONFESSES WITH THEIR MOUTH, the Lord Jesus.
Faith require one to believe in their heart first, and then they MUST CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTH BEFORE they can be saved. That is what is written without taking it out of context.
We believe unto righteousness and when we confess what we believe, then it is done.
Faith always requires and act that corresponds to what you believe in your heart.
If you believe and don't act on that believe, nothing will happen. Which means, no salvation.
If you don't believe but still act it out, again, nothing will happen. which means, still no salvation.


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]2Co4:13[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, Ibelieved, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and thereforespeak; [/FONT][/FONT]

I have given you two sets of scripture verses that proves a work must be done for one's sins to be forgiven. The testimony of two or more witnesses makes what I said earlier, true.
I named more than one work or act one can do that does indeed cause their sins to be forgiven.

 

[fredoheaven]

Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.
Vs. 32

The word of YHWH my friend. This word has never changed. Obey Elohim and fend for the poor, orphan, and widow among you this is your reasonable task

Did Paul says to that of the Philippian Jailer, obey and etc. in order to be saved?

It may quite good do righteous acts/deeds but did not our Lord Jesus Christ says:

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Have you already exceeded the righteous acts of the scribes and Pharisees as the Lord says?

Thanks

 

[know1]

so you have sunk so low as to question the salvation of others?

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

If John and Jesus are our examples to follow, then I would follow their examples, instead of listening to someone who might think they are saved and are not.
If someone cannot receive simple plainly written truths, then they are on my suspicion of being a wolf in sheep's clothing list.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Did Paul says to that of the Philippian Jailer, obey and etc. in order to be saved?

It may quite good do righteous acts/deeds but did not our Lord Jesus Christ says:

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Have you already exceeded the righteous acts of the scribes and Pharisees as the Lord says?

Thanks

The rightousness of Messiah is from obeying the law and having no sin. The "good deeds" preordained for man from God is the law of life and freedom. This is bought for us with the blood and by the resurrection of Messiah. The rightousness of the scribes was the religious practice they command over God's Torah, (instruction). Yes my righteousness exceeds the scribe's because my faith is purfected through obedience to Messiah. In other words I keep the commands and testimony of Messiah as you should. The word of YHWH is this fact. To obey...

 

[TMS]

Every man can pay for debts and should do accordingly to the bible..

can a sinful man pay for the debt of eternal death, with a mortal body?
can we pay for one sins penalty?

No we can't because we are death walking by grace. .

 

[slave]

It's already a 150+ pages and I already learn many things about this thread. I can learn from your posts and actually you are doing just fine. You are doing great addressing my point. I have asked a 'foolish' question which it seems you have not yet address but it is alright since that's out of the thread. However, to give a benefit of doubt, here is the question(rehashed)

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Thanks

1 John 5:11-18New International Version (NIV)

11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
______________________________________________

"....We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil cannot harm them."

"This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all.If we claim to have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the Truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin......"

"....if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

So what must we do? We must believe in the things we cannot do and that Jesus did by way of the Cross, by way of believing the reality of Redemption., and we must be true to our word, as Jesus' Word is true to us; and live according to the Spirit's command over anything shy of it, for we are not co-masters in Christ, we are co-heirs in Christ Jesus. And Jesus is the only author of Wisdom, and Salvation.

We know we have Him to back us up in so doing our new doings. We have been made innocent once more from Jesus on a Cross. But this is not the end of the story, it is the beginning, for now what do we DO with that He has equipped us to become?

Notice how the last verse quoted there doesn't say, "purify us from all Sin."....It says, "...purify us from all unrighteousness." Meaning Jesus has victory over Sin and as long as we let God rule us via Jesus Christ, we too will remain in victory over Sin via Jesus Christ. But never think our proper-alignment with God doesn't make our faith any less a verb than Jesus' life.

 

[JohnTalmid]

can a sinful man pay for the debt of eternal death, with a mortal body?
can we pay for one sins penalty?

No we can't because we are death walking by grace. .

I don't think Jimbo was saying to pay our debt of sin. That's impossible however if you're saved love of God leads the son of reitousness to practice the commands and allows him to know he is redeemed.

 

[TMS]

Christ, = My perfectness, My righteousness, My sinlessness, My obedience to the law, My good works, My Salvation and anything else that is good.
All of these Attributes above are put on me by Faith in Christ. If salvation could have come by works than Christ died in vain.

We can't earn it.

Salvation by faith = Love for Christ = Good works