Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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So then when you said, nobody boasts of their brokenness, you were mistaken, even though you expressed it with surety. I hear it often, people telling their stories, they take it seriously but are able to laugh at themselves and how stupid and foolish they were, a form of boasting in how lost they were and in need of salvation. The boasting in God is ever greater. He is good and faithful to save those who call upon His name and believe in their hearts 
So then when you said, nobody boasts of their brokenness, you were mistaken, even though you expressed it with surety. I hear it often, people telling their stories, they take it seriously but are able to laugh at themselves and how stupid and foolish they were, a form of boasting in how lost they were and in need of salvation. The boasting in God is ever greater. He is good and faithful to save those who call upon His name and believe in their hearts
Is boasting in GOD the same as boasting of oneself? I think not.
I must beware of your intentions as well, for you have falsely accused me multiple times, even now as we speak, and over the last week or so since you started posting again, and never retracted any of your statements. Your join date says six years ago, and I have only been here just over two, so I have no idea what incident you may be referring to.
Meggido - You said, "As evidenced here, proper truth is obscured and even lost. Some of these folks are stating OT saints were saved by faith and grace." What????
I have to be honest when I read this my jaw dropped.
Are you seriously saying that the Old Testament saints were NOT saved by faith????
First off NO ONE is righteous by the Law including the OT saints:
Romans 3:20 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
No one is JUSTIFIED by God by the law. Only those who live by FAITH:
Galatians 3:11 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
You might be thinking, but that’s New Testament…
Well, here's the Old Testament Scripture that Paul is referencing:
Habakkuk 2:4 “Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith.
Here’s Abraham saved by faith:
Genesis 15: 6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
Here’s David saved by faith and discussing the need for faith:
Romans 4:
6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
So how does faith work in the OT? God set it up before the LAW was ever introduced. The Gentiles are justified by faith through Abraham, but notice Scripture says ALL nations this includes the OT saints.
Galatians 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Here’s Luke quoting the OT in Psalm 118:22:
Acts 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
If not through FAITH how else do you think people were saved in the OT? From the LAW? From the SACRIFICES?
After Moses had given the law, the Israelite nation had the sacrificial system to follow. Did the sacrifices really save them? Did killing all of those bulls and sheep really wash their sins away? In Hebrews 10:4 we read, “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.”
If not through FAITH or sacrifices how else do you think were saved in the OT? Through their GOOD DEEDS?
Isaiah 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
I’ll tell you why FAITH saved people in the OT and why no good deeds, no righteous works, no keeping of the law, and no sacrifice of blood and bulls and goats EVER saved a single person!
800 years BEFORE Jesus died Isaiah wrote this:
Isaiah 53:
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.
This is an OT Prophet explaining the state of the saints without Jesus. All went astray, each turn his own way, but every person’s iniquity fell on HIM.
So why did Jesus sacrifice work for those BEFORE He died? I’m glad you asked!
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Before Abraham, He is. From the FOUNDATION of the world He had already been slain. So every sacrifice was made effective by faith in HIM.
There is and NEVER will be another NAME or WAY to be saved. EVER.
In the OT Joshua wrote of a Sabbath-Rest coming:
Hebrews 4:8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
They had NO rest. Even the Sabbath pointed to Jesus. That’s why God spoke of ANOTHER day! That’s one for the Sabbath keepers to consider.
But how about Job? Was he saved by faith? Let’s find out!
Job 19:25-26 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
and at the last he will stand upon the earth.
26 And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
yet in my flesh I shall see God,
Notice Job says LIVES, not WILL live. God is his Redeemer. And Job says, I KNOW (I have faith) that after I am destroy I shall see God in my flesh!
Job was written before any other book in the OT. Genesis was written well after the book of Job!
I am baffled that anyone would say that FAITH was not the ONLY way people could and ARE saved. Baffled. And then to say it in such a way that OTHERS are not concerned with the TRUTH? May this idea never be spoken again. Jesus is and always will be the way to the Father. HE IS SALVATION. HIs name is SALVATION.
JESUS = God is Salvation.
JOSHUA = God is my Salvation.
HOSEA = God, save!
ISAIAH = God is Salvation, He is.
Source: Hebrew Word of the Day - Yeshua (Jesus), Joshua, Hosea - יֵשׁוּעַ, יְהוׄשֻׁעַ, הוׄשֵׁעַ
God, Jesus, IS Salvation.
Hopefully this post will forever settle it in the mind of those who call upon His Name.
I have to be honest when I read this my jaw dropped.
Are you seriously saying that the Old Testament saints were NOT saved by faith????
First off NO ONE is righteous by the Law including the OT saints:
Romans 3:20 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
No one is JUSTIFIED by God by the law. Only those who live by FAITH:
Galatians 3:11 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
You might be thinking, but that’s New Testament…
Well, here's the Old Testament Scripture that Paul is referencing:
Habakkuk 2:4 “Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith.
Here’s Abraham saved by faith:
Genesis 15: 6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
Here’s David saved by faith and discussing the need for faith:
Romans 4:
6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
So how does faith work in the OT? God set it up before the LAW was ever introduced. The Gentiles are justified by faith through Abraham, but notice Scripture says ALL nations this includes the OT saints.
Galatians 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Here’s Luke quoting the OT in Psalm 118:22:
Acts 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
If not through FAITH how else do you think people were saved in the OT? From the LAW? From the SACRIFICES?
After Moses had given the law, the Israelite nation had the sacrificial system to follow. Did the sacrifices really save them? Did killing all of those bulls and sheep really wash their sins away? In Hebrews 10:4 we read, “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.”
If not through FAITH or sacrifices how else do you think were saved in the OT? Through their GOOD DEEDS?
Isaiah 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
I’ll tell you why FAITH saved people in the OT and why no good deeds, no righteous works, no keeping of the law, and no sacrifice of blood and bulls and goats EVER saved a single person!
800 years BEFORE Jesus died Isaiah wrote this:
Isaiah 53:
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.
This is an OT Prophet explaining the state of the saints without Jesus. All went astray, each turn his own way, but every person’s iniquity fell on HIM.
So why did Jesus sacrifice work for those BEFORE He died? I’m glad you asked!
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Before Abraham, He is. From the FOUNDATION of the world He had already been slain. So every sacrifice was made effective by faith in HIM.
There is and NEVER will be another NAME or WAY to be saved. EVER.
In the OT Joshua wrote of a Sabbath-Rest coming:
Hebrews 4:8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
They had NO rest. Even the Sabbath pointed to Jesus. That’s why God spoke of ANOTHER day! That’s one for the Sabbath keepers to consider.
But how about Job? Was he saved by faith? Let’s find out!
Job 19:25-26 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
and at the last he will stand upon the earth.
26 And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
yet in my flesh I shall see God,
Notice Job says LIVES, not WILL live. God is his Redeemer. And Job says, I KNOW (I have faith) that after I am destroy I shall see God in my flesh!
Job was written before any other book in the OT. Genesis was written well after the book of Job!
I am baffled that anyone would say that FAITH was not the ONLY way people could and ARE saved. Baffled. And then to say it in such a way that OTHERS are not concerned with the TRUTH? May this idea never be spoken again. Jesus is and always will be the way to the Father. HE IS SALVATION. HIs name is SALVATION.
JESUS = God is Salvation.
JOSHUA = God is my Salvation.
HOSEA = God, save!
ISAIAH = God is Salvation, He is.
Source: Hebrew Word of the Day - Yeshua (Jesus), Joshua, Hosea - יֵשׁוּעַ, יְהוׄשֻׁעַ, הוׄשֵׁעַ
God, Jesus, IS Salvation.
Hopefully this post will forever settle it in the mind of those who call upon His Name.
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P
The exact same thing you started believing the day you were born again and which caused you to be born again. And just to be clear, it's not new believing. It's a continuation of the believing that started the moment you got saved.
The traditional belief among OSASer's in the church has been that the true believer can't and won't stop believing, and thus, he will be saved on the Day of Judgment, and that if you do stop believing that shows you were never 'really' saved to begin with. That's actually a very insecure salvation because you won't know if you endured to the end until the end. So you can't know if your believing is genuine until it has proven to be genuine by enduring to the very end.
The traditional belief among OSASer's in the church has been that the true believer can't and won't stop believing, and thus, he will be saved on the Day of Judgment, and that if you do stop believing that shows you were never 'really' saved to begin with. That's actually a very insecure salvation because you won't know if you endured to the end until the end. So you can't know if your believing is genuine until it has proven to be genuine by enduring to the very end.
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