Not By Works
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E
john contradicts it
he says he wants us to know we have (not might have as they want to preach) eternal life, and it is this knowledge that helps us continue to believe.
If we can not know we own we have it, we have no reason to continue to have faith, except in our works, only when we lie to ourselves
he says he wants us to know we have (not might have as they want to preach) eternal life, and it is this knowledge that helps us continue to believe.
If we can not know we own we have it, we have no reason to continue to have faith, except in our works, only when we lie to ourselves
Abraham was not under the Mosaic law....he was indeed justified by his faith..no question...everyone else from Moses being given the Mosaic law[old covenant]to Christ's death, burial, resurrection and entering the mercy seat in heaven were under the OC...
Some here state that OT saints were saved as they are....and seem to disregard the Old Covenant that was on them....
Some here state that OT saints were saved as they are....and seem to disregard the Old Covenant that was on them....
Psalms 51:16-17
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.
I love those 2 verses. It gets to the heart of the matter.
So are you saying under the OT, those under the law have no hope of salvation ans are not saved?
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.
I love those 2 verses. It gets to the heart of the matter.
So are you saying under the OT, those under the law have no hope of salvation ans are not saved?
E
How could one be saved by Old covenant law?
moses gave them the ultimatum of how they could be saved,
they had to not only confirm, but obey every letter, failure to do so brought forth a curse, (see Gal 3 with duet 27: 26)
which meant if a person sinned even even one time, they were doomed forever
that is why God introduced the sacrificial system as a tool to show, no one can fulfill the law and save themselves, for that reason, an inocent had to die to redeem or atone for your sins, because you can not save yourself you are lost under just one sin and no one is sinless,
jesus became that lamb, the redeemer Abraham David and job understood about the redeemer the prophets prophesied about, the lamb of God who would pay for the sins of the world, all te sin from Adam until the last man.
It is troubling that that people think anyone is saved by OT law, it is sadly telling that the same people do not believe in eternal security.
moses gave them the ultimatum of how they could be saved,
they had to not only confirm, but obey every letter, failure to do so brought forth a curse, (see Gal 3 with duet 27: 26)
which meant if a person sinned even even one time, they were doomed forever
that is why God introduced the sacrificial system as a tool to show, no one can fulfill the law and save themselves, for that reason, an inocent had to die to redeem or atone for your sins, because you can not save yourself you are lost under just one sin and no one is sinless,
jesus became that lamb, the redeemer Abraham David and job understood about the redeemer the prophets prophesied about, the lamb of God who would pay for the sins of the world, all te sin from Adam until the last man.
It is troubling that that people think anyone is saved by OT law, it is sadly telling that the same people do not believe in eternal security.
To truly believe entails all the graces upon the believer instilled by God at conversion; faith, repentance, sealing of the Spirit, evidence of conversion, ongoing sanctification, maturity, perseverance &c. These are never to be stated as things the person must start doing to gain eternal salvation, nor to maintain such; these are instead evidences of grace and genuine conversion.
This is the sense of the true believer given in John 5:24; Truly, truly, I say into you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
No one here (as far as I can tell) is making belief into "mental assent to facts" while declaring the person saved no "matter what thereafter."
Yet this seems to be the straw man accusation some attempt to pin upon others (us) in our discussions.
Perhaps this is the belief of hyper-grace proponents, I do not know, of it is, it is certainly not biblical. I do know this is the position of Free Grace Theology, technically speaking. There may be some here who believe this, but it is up to them to state their position.
This is the sense of the true believer given in John 5:24; Truly, truly, I say into you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
No one here (as far as I can tell) is making belief into "mental assent to facts" while declaring the person saved no "matter what thereafter."
Yet this seems to be the straw man accusation some attempt to pin upon others (us) in our discussions.
Perhaps this is the belief of hyper-grace proponents, I do not know, of it is, it is certainly not biblical. I do know this is the position of Free Grace Theology, technically speaking. There may be some here who believe this, but it is up to them to state their position.
Ok get your point with Abraham but what about David
Romans 4:5-8
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
I know David was under the Mosaic law, yet given what he did he should have put to death under the law for what he did.
That follows on from the verses I posted 1-4
I promise I am not being obtuse here and trying to trip you up.
I hope you know that's not my style.
How were people under the Old Covenant saved?
Romans 4:5-8
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
I know David was under the Mosaic law, yet given what he did he should have put to death under the law for what he did.
That follows on from the verses I posted 1-4
I promise I am not being obtuse here and trying to trip you up.
I hope you know that's not my style.
How were people under the Old Covenant saved?
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Hhi Meggido...Am i right in thinking that people in the OT were saved by Faith and made sacrifices of blood to cover their guilt and this was done once a year
...But then when Jesus died, His Sacrifice covered all, no more blood needs to be shed, no more going to the high priests to be cleansed, so now we live in the NT, we live by faith through Grace...xox...
...But then when Jesus died, His Sacrifice covered all, no more blood needs to be shed, no more going to the high priests to be cleansed, so now we live in the NT, we live by faith through Grace...xox...Lets see what I really said and if it measures up to your intentional spin and misdirection.....
My post below #32701
Dear reader....nowhere did I condemn small groups, or endorse mega churches.....this poster has once again used dis-information to attempt to discredit someone....and now basks in her own self-righteousness and bashes mega and traditional churches...but dear reader she is guilty of doing what she manufactures and claims others do...
As my quote can clearly be seen, I do believe small groups should be stopped if they are only for fellowship and food and nothing else is discussed...fellowship and food time is encouraged and highly sought after, but not at the expense of keeping people at the same spiritual age.....I have witnessed many "small groups" turn into just fellowship and fun time with no real intentional or unintentional discipleship
Now notice dear reader I also said get rid of these kinds of small groups and bring back Sunday School...I did not simply say...
get rid of small groups....
If magenta's definition of a small group teach people who they are in Christ and what they have in Christ...and that they are the revival, miracle and move of God for this time....then thats a super great thing..