Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

true, but it actually goes much deeper in thought when you look at the Hebrew. It is for One who is superior to bend the knee in kindness to one inferior.

Did Calvin say this?

I would not know if Calvin did or not. Me personally I think it goes deeper than that, It is one thing for a person off superiority to show grace to one in need, It is even greater when a person in need shows grace to the elite.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I listened to a message a few days ago by Roberts Liardon. He was saying a bit about grace teachers going too far in their teachings too.

I can't relate his message or I'll mess it up. But, what I got from it is a warning. The devil isn't anything to play around with and we do need to get instruction from the Lord as to His will for our lives. And playing church now is a thing of the past or the churches like this will,lose their light.

We do need the message we will die for but out of love with power.

and now I'm done.

a person who teaches grace and leaves out growth is not teaching grace, but s trying to get more people into his or her church.

They are selfish.

 

[stonesoffire]

I would not know if Calvin did or not. Me personally I think it goes deeper than that, It is one thing for a person off superiority to show grace to one in need, It is even greater when a person in need shows grace to the elite.

wow...that is deep. Would be very humbling I would think.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

wow...that is deep. Would be very humbling I would think.

the term pouring hot coals over their head comes to mind.. When a lowly person ( usually poor, or lower in rank)is being mocked by a superior (wealthy person or higher rank) and shows love, and forgiveness, it is about the same result

 

[stonesoffire]

Kinda like the saying with power comes great responsibility. I'm glad I don't have a church! Yet we do have to account for our words. We don't want to enable believers to live carelessly either.

So?

 

[stonesoffire]

the term pouring hot coals over their head comes to mind.. When a lowly person ( usually poor, or lower in rank)is being mocked by a superior (wealthy person or higher rank) and shows love, and forgiveness, it is about the same result

Right. Unless one is of a narcissistic mindset, then that would be a spirit that needs addressed.

My personal thought is that the ministr of deliverance needs to be again here in America. That would rock some boats and cause repentance I would think. Too many drugs, too many ungodly counselors. Let Holy Spirit rise in our midst.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Kinda like the saying with power comes great responsibility. I'm glad I don't have a church! Yet we do have to account for our words. We don't want to enable believers to live carelessly either.

So?

instructing or encouraging is not judging, If we see a brother in sin, the bible tells us to not sit on the sidelines.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Right. Unless one is of a narcissistic mindset, then that would be a spirit that needs addressed.

My personal thought is that the ministr of deliverance needs to be again here in America. That would rock some boats and cause repentance I would think. Too many drugs, too many ungodly counselors. Let Holy Spirit rise in our midst.

America has lost hope. Because the churches has lost its flame.

if we want to help. we need to give them hope. not judgment, and let them experience that hope

 

[NoNameMcgee]

America has lost hope. Because the churches has lost its flame.

if we want to help. we need to give them hope. not judgment, and let them experience that hope

interesting perspective...


i may say that some americans have placed their hope into comforts and worldly pleasures

and choose to be willingly ignorant to avoid accountability or any kind of change in their sinful life style....

i dont think WE or the "churches" can do any more than plant seeds or are to blame

maybe false members of the body of Christ have been led by the blind

but if someone is seeking God, he will reveal the truth to them, no?


(not to take away from your point WE (the church) SHOULD preach the whole Word of God in what ever way God wants us to, to bring hope to some or conviction to others)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

interesting perspective...


i may say that some americans have placed their hope into comforts and worldly pleasures

and choose to be willingly ignorant to avoid accountability or any kind of change in their sinful life style....

i dont think WE or the "churches" can do any more than plant seeds or are to blame

maybe false members of the body of Christ have been led by the blind

but if someone is seeking God, he will reveal the truth to them, no?


(not to take away from your point WE (the church) SHOULD preach the whole Word of God in what ever way God wants us to, to bring hope to some or conviction to others)

sadly, and from my perspective, rightfully so, I think Americans see church members as a bunch of hypocrits. Because they church has been a bunch of people who love to preach, but do not practice what the preach.

what we have is the amrican church has become like the jewish church in jesus day. thaaats why ssso many of us are fighting the legalistic mindset which has overtaken the church.

 

[gb9]

sadly, and from my perspective, rightfully so, I think Americans see church members as a bunch of hypocrits. Because they church has been a bunch of people who love to preach, but do not practice what the preach.

what we have is the amrican church has become like the jewish church in jesus day. thaaats why ssso many of us are fighting the legalistic mindset which has overtaken the church.

Jesus is the only hope their is in this lost and broken world, that gets worse everyday, and the legalistic mindset and teaching pushes people away from Christ, not toward him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus is the only hope their is in this lost and broken world, that gets worse everyday, and the legalistic mindset and teaching pushes people away from Christ, not toward him.

it has gotten worse since I was young, and they wonder why the traditional churches are failing, and why non traditional churches are thriving.

Its not because of the love of sin, like the traditional churches have screamed, It is because they offer of hope and true christian growth in Christ through personal discipleship

 

[NoNameMcgee]

sadly, and from my perspective, rightfully so, I think Americans see church members as a bunch of hypocrits. Because they church has been a bunch of people who love to preach, but do not practice what the preach.

what we have is the amrican church has become like the jewish church in jesus day. thaaats why ssso many of us are fighting the legalistic mindset which has overtaken the church.

how they see false prophets or false teachers shouldnt effect how a true believer preaches right?

maybe it could help us understand whats happening around us for context

but if God wants one man to preach against sin

and another to preach on Gods mercy


both may be doing the will of God right?

some people need to be broken

and when the sin they have been hardened to is pointed out to them
it may break them a bit
and remind them they have a perfect and righteous God to answer to

and boom

the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom

and some sinners
try to use Gods grace as a get out of hell free card and sin all night and day.... never being born again


and some men
are so hardened to the truth... or hopeless

that they NEED to know God is still there for them

i just have a hard time saying one way is better than the other



please dont think im trying to argue

i dont disagree with much of what you said

 

[gb9]

it has gotten worse since I was young, and they wonder why the traditional churches are failing, and why non traditional churches are thriving.

Its not because of the love of sin, like the traditional churches have screamed, It is because they offer of hope and true christian growth in Christ through personal discipleship

my church has a starting point that allows non-believers, maybe but not sure believers , people who have not been in church or had any type of relashionship with God in many years, to ask questions, and get truthful, but POLITE answers.


shoving a Bible in front of someone and saying " believe it, or burn in hell forever " is NOT the best way to reach the lost.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

how they see false prophets or false teachers shouldnt effect how a true believer preaches right?

maybe it could help us understand whats happening around us for context

but if God wants one man to preach against sin

and another to preach on Gods mercy


both may be doing the will of God right?

some people need to be broken

and when the sin they have been hardened to is pointed out to them
it may break them a bit
and remind them they have a perfect and righteous God to answer to

and boom

the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom

and some sinners
try to use Gods grace as a get out of hell free card and sin all night and day.... never being born again


and some men
are so hardened to the truth... or hopeless

that they NEED to know God is still there for them

i just have a hard time saying one way is better than the other



please dont think im trying to argue

i dont disagree with much of what you said

Your good bro.

My point is you teach about sin to believers, and not to judge them, not to the world, the world knows they are sinners (see romans 1) they need to know about our loving God. and salvation. not sin.

I have no issue when a church is doing a categorical teaching book to book, when the issue of sin comes up. teach it. but when every Sunday we have a 20 minute sermonette on hellfire and brimstone (as I call them) I have issues.

 

[Magenta]

but if someone is seeking God, he will reveal the truth to them, no?

The Truth embodied in the Person and work of Jesus Christ our Lord, yes!

Good morning all

 

[eternally-gratefull]

my church has a starting point that allows non-believers, maybe but not sure believers , people who have not been in church or had any type of relashionship with God in many years, to ask questions, and get truthful, but POLITE answers.


shoving a Bible in front of someone and saying " believe it, or burn in hell forever " is NOT the best way to reach the lost.

my church also allows all people to question or comment after every teaching, If we can not be open, I wonder if we can be trustworthy?

 

[stonesoffire]

Am thinking that's it's more simpler. If we have the fire burning in our hearts, whether we are ministers or people on the street, it will catch in others that are yearning for answers. And then Holy Spirit speaking through us will address whatever matter is before us.

Our responsibility is to keep our flame burning. And make sure it's not our own flame...ego...but His.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Am thinking that's it's more simpler. If we have the fire burning in our hearts, whether we are ministers or people on the street, it will catch in others that are yearning for answers. And then Holy Spirit speaking through us will address whatever matter is before us.

Our responsibility is to keep our flame burning. And make sure it's not our own flame...ego...but His.

we also have to remember what that flame or light is, It is somethign that draws people to God. not turns people away from God and back into darkness.

That is LOVE

 

[loveme1]

Wrong thread,

this thread is about people who think you have to work to gain or maintain salvation,

not about obedience, no one here think a child of a God can go live a life of Disobedience

Is that not the same thing?