Not By Works

[graceNpeace]

Good morning TruthTalk...I see a work that really stands out to me, but only through looking back i see it as a work where i am serving the Lord ...My son who is in prison for life ( minimum 16 yrs ) has given his life to our Lord about 3 months ago, and now because of the changes th Holy Spirit has made in me in the past 18 months i have been saved , i believe God has used me and continues to use me to teach my son on his journey...This happens through mainly e-mail service, so as i write to him i have the Holy Spirit who leads me...I bought my son a Bible and sent it to him, so now i send him Scriptures to look up, depending what he is going through at his end...My son through the Holy Spirit has gone from a very arrogant, selfish, stubborn, manipulating man in to a man who is broken before the Lord and godly sorrow in his heart...He lives in a very world , he said it`s like he is walking amongst the living dead, God is using me to help build him up, when my son writes to me he tells how he loves the old testament , he loves history...Now when we write or talk on the phone, our conversations are all about our beautiful Savior i never thought it possible that this son of mine would end up being a child of God but ALL things are possible with God...So i believe that is a work that God has set me to do, to teach my son what the Holy Spirit is teaching me, in prison my son truly has to learn to turn the other cheek, to become a gentle spirit in a hostile community, so much work to do, and this is my duty to God to to tend to His son, my child...Excuse me for going on ...xox...

This is brilliant - I live to hear testimony like this!
Your son is indeed in prison - but now - he is free in a way most of the world will never know!
I also believe that with time He will become a powerful witness for the Gospel of Jesus Christ - you can be sure, even now, that such an evident change in you son will attract attention and questions!
I understand that not all the attention will necessarily be positive but for all that his testimony will stand!

One other thing:
You have played down your role in this but I believe that God has rewarded your faithfulness and prayer!

May God bless and keep you!
You have certainly blessed all who will read this post or hear this testimony!
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]We love Him because [/FONT]He first loved us. 1 John 4:19

 

[PeterJens]

Good morning TruthTalk...I see a work that really stands out to me, but only through looking back i see it as a work where i am serving the Lord ...My son who is in prison for life ( minimum 16 yrs ) has given his life to our Lord about 3 months ago, and now because of the changes th Holy Spirit has made in me in the past 18 months i have been saved , i believe God has used me and continues to use me to teach my son on his journey...This happens through mainly e-mail service, so as i write to him i have the Holy Spirit who leads me...I bought my son a Bible and sent it to him, so now i send him Scriptures to look up, depending what he is going through at his end...My son through the Holy Spirit has gone from a very arrogant, selfish, stubborn, manipulating man in to a man who is broken before the Lord and godly sorrow in his heart...He lives in a very world , he said it`s like he is walking amongst the living dead, God is using me to help build him up, when my son writes to me he tells how he loves the old testament , he loves history...Now when we write or talk on the phone, our conversations are all about our beautiful Savior i never thought it possible that this son of mine would end up being a child of God but ALL things are possible with God...So i believe that is a work that God has set me to do, to teach my son what the Holy Spirit is teaching me, in prison my son truly has to learn to turn the other cheek, to become a gentle spirit in a hostile community, so much work to do, and this is my duty to God to to tend to His son, my child...Excuse me for going on ...xox...

Amen. It is amazing when you see how the fruit of the spirit takes someone from such a
destructive direction into something that is life giving and loving.

It is always easy to see this change in these situations. So many who grow up in the church
and try and be good, find it very hard to see the Lord and give their lives to Him because often
they are very confused about what is going on inside them.

Does your son have opportunity for fellowship within the prison system?

 

[Rosemaryx]

This is brilliant - I live to hear testimony like this!
Your son is indeed in prison - but now - he is free in a way most of the world will never know!
I also believe that with time He will become a powerful witness for the Gospel of Jesus Christ - you can be sure, even now, that such an evident change in you son will attract attention and questions!
I understand that not all the attention will necessarily be positive but for all that his testimony will stand!

One other thing:
You have played down your role in this but I believe that God has rewarded your faithfulness and prayer!

May God bless and keep you!
You have certainly blessed all who will read this post or hear this testimony!

We love Him because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19

Hi graceNpeace...Thank you for your encouraging response All the glory to God \o/...You are right, i have stepped back, it is none of my doing but Gods only...Before my son started walking with our Lord, i remember a period of time where i cried out to God to call my son to Him, i said " God, this son of mine i can do nothing with, he does not head my words, he is empty, he is dying a dark death", i then cried out to Him with my heart broken with fear and said " LORD, i give you my son, take him and do what you will", and that was when Jesus words came washing over me saying " Come to me all those who are weary and I will give you rest " Them words to this day are sweeter then honey to me, I love the Lord with all my heart, i can`t even go in to the depths of how He held me in them days when i was drowning in my tears...Praise God \o/...xox...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Amen. It is amazing when you see how the fruit of the spirit takes someone from such a
destructive direction into something that is life giving and loving.

It is always easy to see this change in these situations. So many who grow up in the church
and try and be good, find it very hard to see the Lord and give their lives to Him because often
they are very confused about what is going on inside them.

Does your son have opportunity for fellowship within the prison system?

Hi Peter, yes he does, they have a chapel, not sure what they teach to be honest but my son has his Bible i sent in and that is where i tell him he needs to really grow from ...The prison he is in now he was put there last week, he was in there last year working towards an open prison as he has done 11 years all ready so was send to open prison to prepare him for the out side world, well he went to open prison and became more addicted to more drugs, failed at working towards coming home and is now sent back to the original prison he was taken from, but this time he has gone back walking with the Lord, he left holding hands with the evil one and is now a bright light on a hill...He is full of anxiety as he is back with the same people running with the devil, temptations are flying out from every corner, but there is a wing which he wants to be transferred to which is a calmer environment, a wing where people are interested in moving forward out from prison life, i pray to God that he will send my son there, but only God knows His plans for my son, he could be used by God to shine the light in pits of that prison wing...xox...

 

[Grace777x70]

Address the veracity or falsity of my statements.
The part of your post I wanted to address and make a topic on was where you said they do not understand anything about the empowering grace of God working in their lives. You are writing a single story for all of "them." This takes away their own unique voices and insists they be who you have declared them to be and believe what you have declared them to believe. You are taking away the voices of men. This is called : bigotry, prejudice, labeling. It most often leads to tyranny.

I agree here in your synopsis of what certain types of behavior produce. The hall mark sign of the religious mind-set is being a bully in all it's different forms of which being subtle is one of them and they often use the "bible" and their thirst "for truth" to spiritually manipulate and control others.

One of the terms that can be used is "accountability" - this term itself is not bad but it can be used as a "tool" for the bully, dominating, controlling person on others in the body of Christ.

( I am not saying who you are responding to is doing that as I'm not paying attention to the back and forth going on but I am addressing only the "nature" of the bully that is revealed in the religious dominating, controlling mind-set. )

We need to guard our hearts and yet still be open to allow the life of the Lord to minister to others.

 

[mailmandan]

True grace doesn't permit us to stay the same; after you know that you are not condemned - it empowers you to change.

Not from eating the fruit from the old tree of the knowledge of good and evil that has been released into this world by Adam's transgression but we eat now from the tree of life which is Christ Himself.

Grace was never intended to allow us to keep on being the same as the true gospel of the grace of Christ is God's very empowerment through the life of Christ in and through us that transforms us.

As we behold the glory of Christ as in a mirror - we see reflected back who we are in Him because we are one spirit with the Lord and the Spirit transforms us ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 ) -

His life transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in our inner man - created in righteousness and holiness. We "awake to righteousness and sin not". Awake means to come to ours true selves - to sober up.

When we see that we are called to the true life in Christ and we know we can't work it up and can't accomplish it in our own strength but we desire His life in us to come forth - that's when empowering grace comes to make our faith a reality in our lives.

Amen! In Titus 2:11-12, the grace of God that brings salvation has "appeared to all men." (Yet that does not mean that all men will accept God's gift of eternal life through faith). God's grace (enabling power) is unmerited and brings salvation through faith (Ephesians 2:8) and in Titus 2:11-12, the "grace of God" also teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in the present age.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen! In Titus 2:11-12, the grace of God that brings salvation has "appeared to all men." (Yet that does not mean that all men will accept God's gift of eternal life through faith). God's grace (enabling power) is unmerited and brings salvation through faith (Ephesians 2:8) and in Titus 2:11-12, the "grace of God" also teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in the present age.

Personally I believe that preaching the grace of God in the gospel of Christ without the other transformation part that grace brings is not right and perhaps there are some that do that - but I have not seen it.

I have seen others "accuse" them of saying it because they only hear the first part of grace being put forth which is the acceptance grace but didn't stay to listen to hear about the other transformational part - which is the empowering grace that brings true transformation of the life of Christ being manifested in and through us.

Thus they attack the "acceptance" part of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and call it "easy believe-ism" and other derogatory terms.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Men can be free of that religious spirit. It's what they were taught, I think. And I think it's...playing church, a manmade church. I saw that spirit in a forum I used to go to. You're right - accountability was a word used often by the men who always wanted to be first. I saw them incessantly berate and bully a woman for not attending a church (this woman walked in the Spirit every time I came across her, and I came across her often because I sought out her posts) and this bullying went on for some time. One day, she admitted to me that she was mostly housebound and in a wheelchair. I asked her why she didn't SAY that to them and she answered: this spirit doesn't care about that.

If a man has been taught by God, he doesn't bully and he doesn't need to clamor to be first. The ones who know their Lord and walk by His Spirit will instinctively know to listen to what he has to say because they recognize their Lord formed in him. But if they don't hear HIS voice but instead the voices of all the men who taught him, they won't listen.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Good morning TruthTalk...I see a work that really stands out to me, but only through looking back i see it as a work where i am serving the Lord ...My son who is in prison for life ( minimum 16 yrs ) has given his life to our Lord about 3 months ago, and now because of the changes th Holy Spirit has made in me in the past 18 months i have been saved , i believe God has used me and continues to use me to teach my son on his journey...This happens through mainly e-mail service, so as i write to him i have the Holy Spirit who leads me...I bought my son a Bible and sent it to him, so now i send him Scriptures to look up, depending what he is going through at his end...My son through the Holy Spirit has gone from a very arrogant, selfish, stubborn, manipulating man in to a man who is broken before the Lord and godly sorrow in his heart...He lives in a very world , he said it`s like he is walking amongst the living dead, God is using me to help build him up, when my son writes to me he tells how he loves the old testament , he loves history...Now when we write or talk on the phone, our conversations are all about our beautiful Savior i never thought it possible that this son of mine would end up being a child of God but ALL things are possible with God...So i believe that is a work that God has set me to do, to teach my son what the Holy Spirit is teaching me, in prison my son truly has to learn to turn the other cheek, to become a gentle spirit in a hostile community, so much work to do, and this is my duty to God to to tend to His son, my child...Excuse me for going on ...xox...

With the works He has prepared for us to do, this is the case. We don't know we've done them until we look back.
Lord, when did we see you hungry and thirsty and gave you food or drink?
They didn't know they were doing it! They were just loving because the rocks would cry out or their heads would burst if they didn't pour that love out!

 

[Zmouth]

Have you beheld the face of God?

Didn't you say that you have seen the face of God? Me, I can't say that I have.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
John 6:35-36

It is written, "not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."

Were all His ways made known to you in that moment?

Nah, but I did see which tribe got his Son's eyes.
Yet it did help me to understand how Rev 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; ......... and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
relates to what the Son of man means in light of Eccl 3:18I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Just curious

Have you been drinking the Dishwalla?

 

[mailmandan]

Thus they attack the "acceptance" part of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and call it "easy believe-ism" and other derogatory terms.

And end up with "hard believe-ism."

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And end up with "hard believe-ism."

There are ditches on both sides of a road!

 

[Grace777x70]

There are 2 aspects to grace and it can be seen in Jesus dealings with a woman caught in adultery.

The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )

Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.


1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".

It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.

Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."

The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!

"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part.

This just drives them nuts and I understand why because it is scandalous and it "conflicts" with our religious man-made traditions and some church teachings from our denomination or "group".

Make no mistake about it - the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work is offensive to certain mind-sets. They "stumble" on this Stone.

 

[Grace777x70]

There are ditches on both sides of a road!

I agree that there can be just "mental assent" to things which could be or could not be birthed from a heart that has been born-again. Only God knows the hearts of the people.

All true Christians have this experience in Eph. 1:13 and true faith is a matter of the heart and not in our heads although getting our minds renewed to the truths of Christ will bring a manifestation of His life to us while on this earth.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This teaching here on God's greatest gift to us of His righteousness will feed our new creation in Christ and your heart will burn with the witness of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit bears witness of Christ's work.

Let me know what you think of this.

[video=vimeo;11274133]https://vimeo.com/11274133[/video]

Oh! The same man as the other video. I'll watch it today, thank you!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree that there can be just "mental assent" to things which could be or could not be birthed from a heart that has been born-again. Only God knows the hearts of the people.

All true Christians have this experience in Eph. 1:13 and true faith is a matter of the heart and not in our heads although getting our minds renewed to the truths of Christ will bring a manifestation of His life to us while on this earth.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Yes, only God knows.
In that first video, I noted what he said about the men sleeping with temple prostitutes. He didn't say they were not saved or kick them out - he said, don't you KNOW that when you sleep with a prostitute you are joining your Lord with a prostitute because He is IN you?? In other words, don't you know who and what you are?? You are the temple of our Lord! He reminded them who they were.

 

[Grace777x70]

Oh! The same man as the other video. I'll watch it today, thank you!

You are welcome. The Lord used him and a few others when I first saw the grace of God in Christ's work to renew my mind to the truths of the work of Christ for us.

Some preachers "conflicted" with my religious beliefs and so the Lord had to circumvent them as I wouldn't allow myself to receive from their teaching - one of them was Joseph Prince. The Lord used others to reveal more fully the message of Christ because I was against him when I heard JP talk about 1 John 1:9. It "offended" my church beliefs that I had previously been taught in my life.

Since then I have listened to over 100 different ministers - both male and female - from different denominational backgrounds and I know that I haven't even scratched the surface of the depths of this great work our Lord and loving Father have done for us because of their love and grace towards us all.

 

[Zmouth]

And end up with "hard believe-ism."

Sounds like the dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees except it is between those who believe they are saved by their faith without works and those who believe they are saved by their faith with works.

Faith is the gift of God that one receives when they are saved by his grace.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6

Rom 8:24
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
KJV

 

[UnderGrace]

I completely agree, however, the word empowerment gives a certain connotation that I think detracts, because Grace is not only from God, it is God, it is His essence, we are partakers of that essence (I am a bit if a wordsmith, )

Grace is not merely the dissemination of some commodity, principle or empowerment, that can then be "applied".
As if Gods actions are ever detached from the manifestation of who He is in Himself.

If we are trying to apply grace as to be empowered, we are going about it wrong, I absolutely agree grace comes from understanding of who we are in Christ

Grace is the active expression of the very essence of God Himself, there is no grace of God, apart from God.

Jesus was full of grace and truth

Personally I believe that preaching the grace of God in the gospel of Christ without the other transformation part that grace brings is not right and perhaps there are some that do that - but I have not seen it.

I have seen others "accuse" them of saying it because they only hear the first part of grace being put forth which is the acceptance grace but didn't stay to listen to hear about the other transformational part - which is the empowering grace that brings true transformation of the life of Christ being manifested in and through us.

Thus they attack the "acceptance" part of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and call it "easy believe-ism" and other derogatory terms.

 

[UnderGrace]

Can you repost the link I seem to have missed it...the thread is so long....

You are welcome. The Lord used him and a few others when I first saw the grace of God in Christ's work to renew my mind to the truths of the work of Christ for us.

Some preachers "conflicted" with my religious beliefs and so the Lord had to circumvent them as I wouldn't allow myself to receive from their teaching - one of them was Joseph Prince. The Lord used others to reveal more fully the message of Christ because I was against him when I heard JP talk about 1 John 1:9. It "offended" my church beliefs that I had previously been taught in my life.

Since then I have listened to over 100 different ministers - both male and female - from different denominational backgrounds and I know that I haven't even scratched the surface of the depths of this great work our Lord and loving Father have done for us because of their love and grace towards us all.