Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?

[ForestGreenCook]

I think the problem Calvinist devotees have with scripture is, besides being sure they are one of the Elect Calvin spoke of, is that the scripture speaks of God and from God's Omniscient perspective.

God would foreknow for whom the Good News would resonate. He would even know them by name, those names being written in the Lambs Book of Life. And likely we all at one time or other, or perhaps still, think that what the passage is telling us in various parts of the Bible , The Book of Revelation chapter 20 and verse 12 , The Book of Philippians chapter 4 verse 3, and so forth, is that Katherine _______, Larry __________, David ___________, are what is being referred to.

But the Bible , as many of us have discovered if we've sat down and spent a great deal of time with it, is not like any other bound tome, or book. You read it , it says what is on the page, and that's how you're suppose to understand it. Move on to the next book.
No, the Bible is a doorway the moment you open the cover. It has passages, and other doorways, and secrets and hidden meanings that deliver the words of an eternal God who spoke to the world for as long as it shall live.

The idea of names, as we understand the word in western culture, is likely not what is being said about the Lamb's Book of Life.
And the sheep of God are not a select number of persons by name who are the only ones predestined for salvation. As if a certain number were pre-selected by the creator of all things and which would necessarily mean that same creator predetermined a certain number of names would suffer eternity in damnation . That idea blows Omni-Benevolence out of the water I think.

Reference: NAME





This is why I offer links to resources that support what I say or sustain what I have referred to in a scripture. Below is another example. Because if we allow ourselves to accept that God created us totally depraved and then He Himself made us to be in His grace and then have faith so as to gain eternal life in the end, we will be led to believe we have nothing to do with the matter of loving God and hearkening unto His eternal word so as to repent and be saved. It is all done for us, as one tradition would have it. And conversely, for those for whom it does not apply, well, they're to remain totally depraved and damned, as was also pre-arranged by the Father.

Just as context is vital to recognize when reading any particular scripture verse, so too is translation. It is my hope that the resource below helps to further this thread into the light of God's eternal love. Love for the whole world, as He wishes none should perish. [The Book of John chapter 3 and particularly verse 16. The Book of 2ndPeter chapter 3 verse 9 ]

Q & A: Do you think the Lord knows who are his, and who isn't?andIs the Bible its own expositor, or do we need to study the original Greek & Hebrew texts? By Craig Bluemel

(Excerpt)
Do you think the Lord knows who are his, and who isn't?

The answer to this question is easy; below is listed the same passage in a few different varying translation, all of which convey the same idea:

1 Corinthians 8:1 –3 Knowledge, however, tends to make people conceited; it is love that builds us up. 2 If any one imagines that he already possesses any true knowledge, he has as yet attained to no knowledge of the kind to which he ought to have attained; 3 but if any one loves God, that man is known by God. Weymouth New Testament Translation



1 Corinthians 8:1-3 Knowledge, however, tends to make people conceited; it is love that builds us up. 2 If any one imagines that he already possesses any true knowledge, he has as yet attained to no knowledge of the kind to which he ought to have attained; 3 but if any one loves God, that man is known by God. Weymouth New Testament Translation



1 Corinthians 8:1-3 Knowledge, puffeth up, but, love, buildeth up; 2 If anyone thinketh that he knoweth anything, not yet knoweth he, as he must needs come to know, 3 but, if anyone loveth God, the same, is known of him—Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible



1 Corinthians 8:1-3 we know, that in all of us there is knowledge; and knowledge inflateth, but love edifieth. 2 And if any one thinketh that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet, as he ought to know it. 3 But if any one loveth God, that man is known of him. 1851 Murdoch New Testament



1 Corinthians 8:1-3 It is easy to think that we "know" over problems like this, but we should remember that while this “knowing” may make a man look big, it is only love that can make him grow to his full stature. 2 For if a man thinks he "knows" he may still be quite ignorant of what he ought to know. 3 But if he loves God he is the man who is known to God. Phillip’s New Testament

A host of scripture passages affirms the tenet taught in 1 Corinthians 8:1-3; God “knows” those that are “His” provided he or she “loves” God. [end of excerpt]


God loves you! YOU! That is right now reading this way too long a post, boy that's a first for me . And if you love Him back He knows you. He knew you because you are of God. The Book of Colossians chapter 1 verses 16-20 , The Book of John chapter 1 and particularly verses 1 thru 4. Believe and be saved.

Is it a possibility that you are depending upon too many falsely revised versions of the bible?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I am not ignoring the scriptures posited by you, by your interpretation of them. We've been down this road before and you will not concede and neither will I.

I understand. I have been down that road myself. I am a firm believer that if we do not deny ourselves in your studies of the scriptures, the Holy Spirit will not reveal the truths of Jesus's doctrine lest we take credit by means of our own intelligence. I wasted 12 years of intense studying in that mode until I gave up on my ability.

 

[Whispered]

Is it a possibility that you are depending upon too many falsely revised versions of the bible?

No, I don't think so.
We could perhaps all ask ourselves that same question depending on which Bible version we prefer. We no longer have the original writings available to us. At least as the lay public. What every Bible version is derived from is copies, of copies, of copies , of manuscripts that were translated through the ages from their mother tongue into the language best suited for that latest version.
Go to a Bible scripture search site and you'll find a great many versions to choose from when seeking any one book , chapter, or verse of scripture.

The point that's hoped to be made here in this discussion at least on my part, as well as the 3 tactics thread I started, which was blessed with those three tactics listed actually coming into example later on in the thread, is that God is better than what some Denominational structures portray.
I think too often man makes God in their image when crafting Denominational structures. Especially those that are named after their respective Patriarch.
Maybe what is better is to use the Bible as a foundation while trusting the indwelling Holy Spirit with the rest. God is not a man....
as one scripture starts out.
And yet what we have are copies, of copies, of copies, of versions, and versions, and versions, all put together across the span of time by men. Forty different authors over a period of 1500 years.

Maybe God's word is best found where the scripture tells us to look. Be still and know I AM God.

There would certainly be less of a bloody history I think as relates to the conflicts, skirmishes, wars, crusades, that thought to inject by force one of "mans" versions of how to hold faith in the eternal Almighty.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And yet what we have are copies, of copies, of copies, of versions, and versions, and versions, all put together across the span of time by men. Forty different authors over a period of 1500 years.

That does not in any way detract from the written Word of God today. In fact that was the way in which divine Preservation worked. And that is not 1500 years but over 3,500 years.

What should be noted is that because God's hand was always over His Word, the Scriptures have come down to us from about 1500 B.C. as they were originally written through the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts. All the Reformation Bibles (including the King James) were based upon these texts. Only the modern versions have seriously deviated from them.

 

[stillness]

I

I think the problem Calvinist devotees have with scripture is, besides being sure they are one of the Elect Calvin spoke of, is that the scripture speaks of God and from God's Omniscient perspective.

God would foreknow for whom the Good News would resonate. He would even know them by name, those names being written in the Lambs Book of Life. And likely we all at one time or other, or perhaps still, think that what the passage is telling us in various parts of the Bible , The Book of Revelation chapter 20 and verse 12 , The Book of Philippians chapter 4 verse 3, and so forth, is that Katherine _______, Larry __________, David ___________, are what is being referred to.

But the Bible , as many of us have discovered if we've sat down and spent a great deal of time with it, is not like any other bound tome, or book. You read it , it says what is on the page, and that's how you're suppose to understand it. Move on to the next book.
No, the Bible is a doorway the moment you open the cover. It has passages, and other doorways, and secrets and hidden meanings that deliver the words of an eternal God who spoke to the world for as long as it shall live.

The idea of names, as we understand the word in western culture, is likely not what is being said about the Lamb's Book of Life.
And the sheep of God are not a select number of persons by name who are the only ones predestined for salvation. As if a certain number were pre-selected by the creator of all things and which would necessarily mean that same creator predetermined a certain number of names would suffer eternity in damnation . That idea blows Omni-Benevolence out of the water I think.

Reference: NAME





This is why I offer links to resources that support what I say or sustain what I have referred to in a scripture. Below is another example. Because if we allow ourselves to accept that God created us totally depraved and then He Himself made us to be in His grace and then have faith so as to gain eternal life in the end, we will be led to believe we have nothing to do with the matter of loving God and hearkening unto His eternal word so as to repent and be saved. It is all done for us, as one tradition would have it. And conversely, for those for whom it does not apply, well, they're to remain totally depraved and damned, as was also pre-arranged by the Father.

Just as context is vital to recognize when reading any particular scripture verse, so too is translation. It is my hope that the resource below helps to further this thread into the light of God's eternal love. Love for the whole world, as He wishes none should perish. [The Book of John chapter 3 and particularly verse 16. The Book of 2ndPeter chapter 3 verse 9 ]

Q & A: Do you think the Lord knows who are his, and who isn't?andIs the Bible its own expositor, or do we need to study the original Greek & Hebrew texts? By Craig Bluemel

(Excerpt)
Do you think the Lord knows who are his, and who isn't?

The answer to this question is easy; below is listed the same passage in a few different varying translation, all of which convey the same idea:

1 Corinthians 8:1 –3 Knowledge, however, tends to make people conceited; it is love that builds us up. 2 If any one imagines that he already possesses any true knowledge, he has as yet attained to no knowledge of the kind to which he ought to have attained; 3 but if any one loves God, that man is known by God. Weymouth New Testament Translation



1 Corinthians 8:1-3 Knowledge, however, tends to make people conceited; it is love that builds us up. 2 If any one imagines that he already possesses any true knowledge, he has as yet attained to no knowledge of the kind to which he ought to have attained; 3 but if any one loves God, that man is known by God. Weymouth New Testament Translation



1 Corinthians 8:1-3 Knowledge, puffeth up, but, love, buildeth up; 2 If anyone thinketh that he knoweth anything, not yet knoweth he, as he must needs come to know, 3 but, if anyone loveth God, the same, is known of him—Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible



1 Corinthians 8:1-3 we know, that in all of us there is knowledge; and knowledge inflateth, but love edifieth. 2 And if any one thinketh that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet, as he ought to know it. 3 But if any one loveth God, that man is known of him. 1851 Murdoch New Testament



1 Corinthians 8:1-3 It is easy to think that we "know" over problems like this, but we should remember that while this “knowing” may make a man look big, it is only love that can make him grow to his full stature. 2 For if a man thinks he "knows" he may still be quite ignorant of what he ought to know. 3 But if he loves God he is the man who is known to God. Phillip’s New Testament

A host of scripture passages affirms the tenet taught in 1 Corinthians 8:1-3; God “knows” those that are “His” provided he or she “loves” God. [end of excerpt]


God loves you! YOU! That is right now reading this way too long a post, boy that's a first for me . And if you love Him back He knows you. He knew you because you are of God. The Book of Colossians chapter 1 verses 16-20 , The Book of John chapter 1 and particularly verses 1 thru 4. Believe and be saved.

Agree and mentioned here already that the Judgment will be more merciful and more severe than expected for the majority of people. "We shall all give a count of ourselves to God."
Imclude 3 different levels of maturity.

Salvation is ongoing. growing in Christ:
"All who have the veil removed, beholding the glory of the Lord, are changed into His Image from glory to Glory, by the Spirit of the Lord."
1John 2:12 is addressed to 3 steps of maturity past babes in Christ:
1: Little children who are forgiven:
Becoming a disciple we follow Christ in our understanding but still unable to get past ourselves, to enter the Wisdom of God.
2: In fellowship with the Father as friends:
“Strive to enter in at the Straight Gate for many shall seek to enter in and shall not be able.”
Getting past what we think we know in understanding to ascend in the Wisdom of God and nurture His children. "Lord you know all things, you know I Love you as a friend.' 'Then feed my sheep."
"We will give ourselves to Prayer and the ministry of the Word."
3: Those who overcome the world:
"I have written to you young men because you are strong and know the word of God dwells in you and have overcome the evil one."

These steps of maturity are seen in the life of Joseph as 3 different coats of identity.
From a babe like his brothers, interpreting in understanding and suffering rejection and betrayal. This first dark night of loss of identity is against our will, umprepared to accept a sentence of death in ourselves: like the disciples in the garden of Getsamene, they fell asleep; like the foolish and wise virgins, they slumbered and slept.
"I laid me down and slept, I awaked for the Lord sustained me." To emerge as a servant of no reputation, as a friend of God left in care of everything in the house, but not to defile himself with woman, this coat is left willingly to escape the pleasures of sin.
The night of the spirit: the worst dark night of losing our life, to merge in the Will of God, first as a teacher of babes in prison, identified with them and left in charge; then to proclaim deliverance to those who remained babes. The diference those who will rule with Christ have followed Him in His suffering and death and have been changed through His death and resurrection, to Love as God Loves. "If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him."

 

[Adstar]

By considering your statement "From his foreknowledge he already knows whom will accept his will and thus be saved" you must have overlooked Psalms 53:2.

It's good to actually put some effort in and actually post the scriptures you are quoting..

Here i will do it for you..

Psalms 53: KJV
2 "God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God."

And No is did not overlook scripture.. I have read the entire Bible..

So at the time of the writing of Psalms 53 no one who fully understood God.. Tell me does anyone fully understand God today... Wait the Answer is NO.... But we can understand the will of God for us.. And no one was seeking God at the time.. Yes i agree.. But in our times the Holy Spirit is moving people calling all nations tribes and tongues and guess what.. Many are rejecting the call.. Of their own free will.. If the claim of calvinisim that the call of the The Holy Spirit is irresistible then all who where called would be chosen.. But as we know the Bible declares from the Mouth of my LORD Jesus::

Matthew 22: KJV
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

I guess you will now say Jesus overlooked Psalms 53:2

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It's good to actually put some effort in and actually post the scriptures you are quoting..

Here i will do it for you..

Psalms 53: KJV
2 "God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God."

And No is did not overlook scripture.. I have read the entire Bible..

So at the time of the writing of Psalms 53 no one who fully understood God.. Tell me does anyone fully understand God today... Wait the Answer is NO.... But we can understand the will of God for us.. And no one was seeking God at the time.. Yes i agree.. But in our times the Holy Spirit is moving people calling all nations tribes and tongues and guess what.. Many are rejecting the call.. Of their own free will.. If the claim of calvinisim that the call of the The Holy Spirit is irresistible then all who where called would be chosen.. But as we know the Bible declares from the Mouth of my LORD Jesus::

Matthew 22: KJV
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

I guess you will now say Jesus overlooked Psalms 53:2

The many that are called are all of his elect, not all of mankind, but many of mankind, and yes, God's call to his elect can not be resisted. John 6:44, No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek for draw = to compel by an irresistible force) him, and I will raise him up at the last day. The few chosen are a few of his elect that the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught. Because God saw that no one would seek him, is the reason that he had to call them by his irresistible force.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I

Agree and mentioned here already that the Judgment will be more merciful and more severe than expected for the majority of people. "We shall all give a count of ourselves to God."
Imclude 3 different levels of maturity.

Salvation is ongoing. growing in Christ:
"All who have the veil removed, beholding the glory of the Lord, are changed into His Image from glory to Glory, by the Spirit of the Lord."
1John 2:12 is addressed to 3 steps of maturity past babes in Christ:
1: Little children who are forgiven:
Becoming a disciple we follow Christ in our understanding but still unable to get past ourselves, to enter the Wisdom of God.
2: In fellowship with the Father as friends:
“Strive to enter in at the Straight Gate for many shall seek to enter in and shall not be able.”
Getting past what we think we know in understanding to ascend in the Wisdom of God and nurture His children. "Lord you know all things, you know I Love you as a friend.' 'Then feed my sheep."
"We will give ourselves to Prayer and the ministry of the Word."
3: Those who overcome the world:
"I have written to you young men because you are strong and know the word of God dwells in you and have overcome the evil one."

These steps of maturity are seen in the life of Joseph as 3 different coats of identity.
From a babe like his brothers, interpreting in understanding and suffering rejection and betrayal. This first dark night of loss of identity is against our will, umprepared to accept a sentence of death in ourselves: like the disciples in the garden of Getsamene, they fell asleep; like the foolish and wise virgins, they slumbered and slept.
"I laid me down and slept, I awaked for the Lord sustained me." To emerge as a servant of no reputation, as a friend of God left in care of everything in the house, but not to defile himself with woman, this coat is left willingly to escape the pleasures of sin.
The night of the spirit: the worst dark night of losing our life, to merge in the Will of God, first as a teacher of babes in prison, identified with them and left in charge; then to proclaim deliverance to those who remained babes. The diference those who will rule with Christ have followed Him in His suffering and death and have been changed through His death and resurrection, to Love as God Loves. "If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him."

The elect of God are being judged by God as they lives here on earth by God's chastening rod and will be told to enter in at the last day. God will judge the non-elect at the last day, and god does not judge them by his chastening while they live here on earth (Psalms 73:5) They are not PLAGUED (divinely punished) like other men.

 

[Whispered]

I do not think Calvinist's realize the import of their belief system as pertains to the character of God as it describes.
The elect of God, the saints of God, are all who accept Jesus as their Savior . He who died taking the sins of the world upon Himself on the last altar where sins would be covered by the blood of the lamb.
If we even briefly consider that sacrifice and hold parallel to that the five tenets that comprise TULIP we find a very convoluted construct wherein God's Calvin plan for the whole world is premeditation of evil.
Calvin clearly ignored many scriptures so as to come up with his doctrine. Including of course that which tells us, God would have no one perish of their sins.

However, the application of the TULIP ideology nullifies that.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)


TULIP tells us, in short, that God damned all after He'd predetermined whom He would save.
And the faith that saves isn't arrived at by those He predetermined to save. It is imbued into them by God against their will. That's Irresistible Grace. He saved those Elected for Salvation and then made those Elect to have faith in what God did against their own Totally Depraved will.

TULIP makes the cross of none effect. Why would God have to die on the cross for the sins of a people He'd already predetermined to elect into His Salvation? The elect don't come to have faith Jesus died for them. God installs that faith into them after he put them into His Irresistible Grace. The illusion is that that Elect one came to Christ but they couldn't if they were Totally Depraved, as God made them to be. The only way they came to Christ is because God made that possible. But all they're doing is being led by God that created them damned to not be, due to God making that possible.
They don't actually have faith, they're made to think they do by God's doing and for his purpose. While the rest of the non-Elect are made to die and suffer Hell because God made them to do that and didn't elect to save them too.

 

[Whispered]

And this scripture in the Book of Matthew chapter 7 and verse 22
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!
Berean Study Bible


Is God telling those who are actually Totally Depraved still that they're faking faith because He didn't imbue them with His Irresistible Grace , and then give them faith in Him, because He knew the names of those He elected to save and they aren't that!

And those Calvinist's you will encounter in any Christian discussion forum are telling you that when they in a sense gloat because they believe they are one of those Elect. And when you take issue with their Doctrine they're telling you when they counter and defend with the Calvinists doctrine, that you are not one of them. Which means, you don't understand because you are Totally Depraved. And they're not.

Tragic, isn't it? Our God of love according to Calvin is something else.

 

[Whispered]

That does not in any way detract from the written Word of God today. In fact that was the way in which divine Preservation worked. And that is not 1500 years but over 3,500 years.

What should be noted is that because God's hand was always over His Word, the Scriptures have come down to us from about 1500 B.C. as they were originally written through the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts. All the Reformation Bibles (including the King James) were based upon these texts. Only the modern versions have seriously deviated from them.

When Was the Bible Assembled? The Old Testament Was Already Put Together by the Time of Jesus

by Sam O'Neal

Updated January 28, 2019

Determining when the Bible was written poses challenges because it isn't a single book. It's a collection of 66 books written by more than 40 authors over more than 2,000 years.

So there are two ways to answer the question, "When was the Bible written?" The first is to identify the original dates for each of the Bible's 66 books. The second, the focus here is to describe how and when all 66 books were collected in a single volume.

The Short Answer
We can say with some certainty that the first widespread edition of the Bible was assembled by St. Jerome around A.D. 400. This manuscript included all 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament in the same language: Latin. This edition of the Bible is commonly referred to as The Vulgate.

Jerome wasn't the first to select all 66 books we know today as the Bible. He was the first to translate and compile everything into a single volume.

In the Beginning
The first step in assembling the Bible involves the 39 books of the Old Testament, also referred to as the Hebrew Bible. Beginning with Moses, who wrote the first five books of the Bible, these books were written over the centuries by prophets and leaders. By the time of Jesus and his disciples, the Hebrew Bible had already been established as 39 books. This was what Jesus meant when he referred to "the Scriptures."

After the early church was established, people such as Matthew started writing historical records of Jesus' life and ministry, which became known as the Gospels. Church leaders such as Paul and Peter wanted to provide direction for the churches they established, so they wrote letters that were circulated throughout congregations in different regions. We call these the Epistles.

A century after the launch of the church, hundreds of letters and books explained who Jesus was and what he did and how to live as his follower. It became clear that some of these writings weren't authentic. Church members began to ask which books should be followed and which ignored.

Finishing the Process
Eventually, Christian church leaders worldwide gathered to answer major questions, including which books should be regarded as "Scripture." These gatherings included the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 and the First Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381, which decided a book should be included in the Bible if it was:

• Written by one of Jesus' disciples, someone who was a witness to Jesus' ministry, such as Peter, or someone who interviewed witnesses, such as Luke.
• Written in the first century A.D., meaning that books written long after the events of Jesus' life and the first decades of the church weren't included.
• Consistent with other portions of the Bible known to be valid, meaning the book couldn't contradict a trusted element of Scripture.

After a few decades of debate, these councils largely settled which books should be included in the Bible. A few years later, all were published by Jerome in a single volume.

By the time the first century A.D. ended, most of the church had agreed on which books should be considered Scripture. The earliest church members took guidance from the writings of Peter, Paul, Matthew, John, and others. The later councils and debates were largely useful in weeding out inferior books that claimed the same authority.

 

[stillness]

The elect of God are being judged by God as they lives here on earth by God's chastening rod and will be told to enter in at the last day. God will judge the non-elect at the last day, and god does not judge them by his chastening while they live here on earth (Psalms 73:5) They are not PLAGUED (divinely punished) like other men.

.
16 years ago the Lord told me: Enter in as a little child and put.awaybuour divided spirit. Now is the time to "Enter in at the straight Gate."

 

[stillness]

The elect of God are being judged by God as they lives here on earth by God's chastening rod and will be told to enter in at the last day. God will judge the non-elect at the last day, and god does not judge them by his chastening while they live here on earth (Psalms 73:5) They are not PLAGUED (divinely punished) like other men.

After thinking about it, realised you ment: they will rule with Him on the last day.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

And this scripture in the Book of Matthew chapter 7 and verse 22
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!
Berean Study Bible


Is God telling those who are actually Totally Depraved still that they're faking faith because He didn't imbue them with His Irresistible Grace , and then give them faith in Him, because He knew the names of those He elected to save and they aren't that!

And those Calvinist's you will encounter in any Christian discussion forum are telling you that when they in a sense gloat because they believe they are one of those Elect. And when you take issue with their Doctrine they're telling you when they counter and defend with the Calvinists doctrine, that you are not one of them. Which means, you don't understand because you are Totally Depraved. And they're not.

Tragic, isn't it? Our God of love according to Calvin is something else.

We all have a depraved nature and just because we have been born again and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not mean that we are not still depraved by our nature that we still carry with us until we die a natural death. I have told you that I think you, and most on this forum, have shown evidence that they are one of the elect, so I don't understand why you continually voice it differently.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

After thinking about it, realised you ment: they will rule with Him on the last day.

Jesus will come back at the last day and gather his elect from one end of the earth to the other and change their bodies to be fashioned like unto his and they will sing and praise God in heaven forever.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

.
16 years ago the Lord told me: Enter in as a little child and put.awaybuour divided spirit. Now is the time to "Enter in at the straight Gate."

Those who enter both the wide gate and the straight gate are God's elect. Those that enter the wide gate are worshiping God the best way they know how, but are believing in false doctrines of eternal salvation by good works. Those that enter the straight gate are those of whom the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of the Gospel that leads to a life of peace while they live here in this world.

 

[Whispered]

We all have a depraved nature and just because we have been born again and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not mean that we are not still depraved by our nature that we still carry with us until we die a natural death. I have told you that I think you, and most on this forum, have shown evidence that they are one of the elect, so I don't understand why you continually voice it differently.

Oh, but that is not at all what your Calvinism doctrine teaches.

 

[stillness]

I

Those who enter both the wide gate and the straight gate are God's elect. Those that enter the wide gate are worshiping God the best way they know how, but are believing in false doctrines of eternal salvation by good works. Those that enter the straight gate are those of whom the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of the Gospel that leads to a life of peace while they live here in this world.

Those who enter in no longer live for themselves. As you mentioned earlier, are disciplined by the Lord to be His disciples.
The broad way that leads to destruction refers to those who will not bear the cross daily and "Will suffer losss, but will be saved through the fire," their works were perishable; having their affections in this life rather than in God, fallen from Grace, unable to do the work of God. "In Faith that works by Love," " As labourers together with God." There is much missleading controversy about the works of the flesh: idolatry witchcraft... and the fruit of the Spirit that endures through the fire. "The fire will refine every man's work. No one is saved by achievement, is obvious to those who come to Christ and anyone who truly Loves his neibour is influenced by the Holy Spirit and that's why rejecting Him can't be forgiven. To most everyone's surprise death and hell no longer belong to the enemy. Jesus has the keys, He declared this when he rose from the dead, and that's wy many will be saved through the fire but loose their reward. Even many that don't recognise Jesus as God will be forgiven. Jesus said this would be forgiven, but rejecting the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

 

[Whispered]

Those who enter both the wide gate and the straight gate are God's elect. Those that enter the wide gate are worshiping God the best way they know how, but are believing in false doctrines of eternal salvation by good works. Those that enter the straight gate are those of whom the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of the Gospel that leads to a life of peace while they live here in this world.

But God's word says the wide gate is the road that leads to destruction.

Matthew chapter 7
13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide [a]is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. 14 [b]For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

But God's word says the wide gate is the road that leads to destruction.

Matthew chapter 7
13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide [a]is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. 14 [b]For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

But God's word says the wide gate is the road that leads to destruction.

Matthew chapter 7
13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide [a]is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. 14 [b]For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

Believing and preaching a false doctrine is destructive. According to the Greek meaning of destruction it leads to a spiritual ruin or loss, damnable, perdition.