LIVING IN THE MILLENIA

[Blain]

The inner workings are kept secret from the unaware prey, looks good on the outside, evil on the inside, public image.

The cults are a spider's web of deception.

The prosperity gospel is a big evil in the world, look at what it's done in Africa, Nigeria is a prime example

So called pastors living in luxury homes, jets, cars, multi million dollar paychecks, as people under their control are starving, in the name of Jesus, a 3rd world country?

(EVIL)

Yeah the propserity gospel is one I am aware of I mean honestly it's sickening it's one thing to believe you can recieve but I have seen these so called pasters and the giant houses and expensive cars they have

 

[Truth7t7]

Yeah the propserity gospel is one I am aware of I mean honestly it's sickening it's one thing to believe you can recieve but I have seen these so called pasters and the giant houses and expensive cars they have

Matthew 19:23-24KJV
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Lakewood Church, Joel Osteen on Texas, appraised at $10.5 million 10 years ago

TD Jake's Below

The Joyce Meyer Family Compound

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand you believe everybody in the nation you live in and all others are deceived until satan is bound in the future. So why aren't you deceived anymore?

You do not understand anything. You are now nitpicking things I have never said and I am done playing games
good day

 

[Journeyman]

1. Do you believe in a Tribune Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit?

2. Do you believe Jesus Christ was fully God when he walked upon this earth?

Yes to both questions. Do you believe God punished himself in place of sinners? That the Father poured his anger out on his Son for our sins?

 

[Journeyman]

ARE you sure you did't get your "insight" from a Watchtower?

Yes I'm sure. I have spoken to JW's about their heretical belief that Jesus is a created being. Jesus is our Creator.

 

[Journeyman]

The guy was disowned? good grief how very Christian of them

They weren't Christians. They were Jews who didn't believe that Jesus is the Messiah. But my friend who grew up being told only that Jesus is not the Messiah read the NT and recognized Jesus as the Messiah. a

 

[Journeyman]

The guy was disowned? good grief how very Christian of them

They weren't Christians. They were Jews. My friend who knew nothing about Jesus except being told that Jesus is not the Messiah read the NT and recognized that Jesus is the Messiah.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes to both questions. Do you believe God punished himself in place of sinners? That the Father poured his anger out on his Son for our sins?

Yes God the Father, Gave God The Son, To Die For The Sins Of The World.

John 3:16-18KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Journeyman]

The biblical definition of (Forever) is in the scripture below.

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Yes, people will be tormented in the presence of Jesus at his judgement seat as the shame of their past sins committed over aion and aion (ages and ages) are exposed for all to see. They will not exist in the presence of Christ eternally.

 

[Journeyman]

Eternal Torment Is Never Taught In Scripture?

Your Living In A Fairy Tale Dream Land

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

People avoid coming to the light because they fear having their evil deeds and thoughts exposed. Fear has torment, but when our Lord returns, their will be no place for the unrepentant to hide. But their torment wont go on eternally

 

[Journeyman]

The text says "blindness [/a hardening]... UNTIL" (which correlates with a number of other "UNTIL" passages on this Subject, which negate any idea of this being a "gradual unfolding of their coming to faith over time" as it pertains to "Israel" the nation--Rom9-11 basically covering the Subject of "nations"... "Israel [singular nation]" and "Gentiles [plural nations]").
No one is saying that they cannot come to faith at any time throughout "this present age [singular]"... they most certainly can and they do (thus becoming a member of "the Church which is His body"--all those saved "in this present age [singular]").

I cannot speak for others who've been contributing to this thread, but I believe that it is NOT the general viewpoint of "pre-tribbers" (such as I myself am) to say that Israel only comes to faith at the every END of the trib [or AFTER]. Not so! That is TOO LATE, at that point. In fact, FOLLOWING "our Rapture," they are the very ones [not saying 100% of them, at all], now [in the trib (future)] having come to faith themselves in those years, who will be taking up the reins, so to speak, and leading the charge!! [meaning, DOING the INVITING (of the "guests" [i.e. Gentiles]) TO "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," aka earthly MK age!] It's who Matt25:40,45 is speaking of ['the least of these My brethren'], who are NOT the ones BEING "judged/separated" in the Sheep and goat judgment of the nations, for example.)

____________


So, I disagree that Romans 11:25-29,15 is saying what you are suggesting it is, but instead, corresponds precisely with what Hosea 5:14-6:3 is saying [not to mention other related passages] (re-posting old post of mine, for example of this):

[quoting old post]

I've posted this before about the "days" (and/or "day") issues (the ones that are not "singular 24-hr days"):

Hosea 5:15-6:3 [re: Israel] -

14 For I am like a lion to Ephraim

and like a young lion to the house of Judah.

I, even I, will tear them to pieces

and then go away.

I will carry them off

where no one can rescue them.

15 Then I will return to My place

until they admit their guilt and seek My face;

in their affliction

they will earnestly [or, early] seek Me.”

6:1 Come, let us [Israel] return to the LORD.

For He has torn us [Israel] to pieces,

but He will heal us [Israel];

He has wounded us [Israel],

but He will bind up our [Israel's] wounds.

2 After two days He will revive [H2421] us [Israel]; [see H2421 in Ezekiel 37 also, vv.3,5,6,9,10,14]

onin the third day He will raise [H6965] us [Israel] up, [see H6965 in Isaiah 26 also, v.19]

that we [Israel] may live [H2421 (ditto the above note)] in His presence.

3 So let us [Israel] know—

let us [Israel] press on to know the LORD.

As surely as the sun rises,

He will appear;

He will come to us [Israel] like the rain,

like the spring showers that water the earth [/as the latter rain unto the earth].


____________

[then... quoting Gaebelein's Commentary on Hosea 5]

"And like the lion after his attack withdraws to his den, so the Lord would withdraw from them, leave them and return to His place, waiting till their repentance comes and they seek Him early in their affliction.

"The last verse of this chapter has a wider meaning than the past judgment which came upon the house of Israel. The Lord of glory came to earth and visited His people. He came with the message and offer of the kingdom to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He came unto His own, but His own received Him not. After they had rejected Him, delivered Him into the hands of the Gentiles to be crucified, He returned to His place. There He is now at the right hand of God, waiting for that day, when the remnant of Israel will repent and seek His face Acts 3:19-26. [I mentioned Acts 3:21's reference to FUTURE events (i.e. the "UNTIL") in some thread]. That will be in their coming great affliction, in the time of Jacob’s trouble.

"Hosea 6:1-3. The division of the chapter at this point is unfortunate. The three verses of chapter 6 must not be detached from the previous chapter. Here we have the future repentance of the remnant of Israel, that is during the great tribulation [I would say "during the [7-yr] trib in its entirety, not just during the GREAT tribulation (i.e. 2nd half, merely)]. Believingly they will acknowledge His righteous judgment and express their faith and hope in His mercy and the promised blessings and restoration. They express what their great prophet Moses so beautifully stated in His prophetic song, that great vision given to him, ere he went to the mountain to die. “See now that I, even I, am He and there is no god with Me; I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand” Deuteronomy 32:39. “After two days will He revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight (literally, before His face).” They have been dead spiritually and nationally, but when the two days of their blindness and dispersion are over, there is coming for them the third day of life and [what is *LIKENED UNTO a] resurrection."

--Gaebelein, Commentary on Hosea 5 (taken from Bible Hub)

[end quoting Gaebelein; bold and underline mine; bracketed insertions mine, parentheses original]

____________

[note the passages I've listed before that *LIKEN this UNTO a RESURRECTION ^ (re: Israel's "FUTURE"): Romans 11:15(25-29); Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23; Isaiah 26:16-21; Daniel 12:1-4,10; John 6:39 (distinct from v.40); Hosea 5:14-6:3 "after TWO days" and "IN the THIRD day"... which is "THE LAST" of these three (counting from His resurrection/ascension [32ad], per Hos5:15), or "THE LAST" of seven (if you count from creation/Genesis 1, i.e. the "sabbatismos" of Heb4:9 (see Ex31:13,17 "it [the sabbath/7th day] is A SIGN between Me and the children of Israel for ever"), aka the Millennial Day of REST, that is, the 7th Millennium, or "THE LAST")]

I believe it is a big mistake to view the phrase "The Last Day" to be referring to "a singular 24-hr day"


[end quoting old post]

____________

Again... it is not the general thought to say they come to faith "AFTER HE RETURNS" (no).

Im not the one arguing in favor of it.

 

[Truth7t7]

People avoid coming to the light because they fear having their evil deeds and thoughts exposed. Fear has torment, but when our Lord returns, their will be no place for the unrepentant to hide. But their torment wont go on eternally

I will strongly disagree, scripture speaks loudly of the Eternal place of torment in the Lake of Fire.

Do you also believe Satan will be annihilated?

 

[Journeyman]

You do not understand anything. You are now nitpicking things I have never said and I am done playing games
good day

Im not nitpicking or playing games. I asked you that question because the "nations" (gentiles) dont have to wait until some future time period to no longer be deceived. It's by faith in Christ that people are freed from deception.

Listen my friend. The redeemed are in number as the stars of heaven. The idea that Jesus in blazing glory along with billions of glorified saints and angels living on earth alongside unsaved people isnt true. Jesus said,

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations:and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth hissheep from the goats Mt.25:31-32

 

[Journeyman]

Yes God the Father, Gave God The Son, To Die For The Sins Of The World.

John 3:16-18KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God didn't pour his anger out on his Son. Sinners did.

 

[Journeyman]

I will strongly disagree, scripture speaks loudly of the Eternal place of torment in the Lake of Fire.

Do you also believe Satan will be annihilated?

When taking all scripture into account, the the very presence of God, the appearance of Christ as he truly is, will be a destroying lake of fire towards all evil. Satan also will be destroyed after being humiliated for proclaiming himsef a god for ages and ages.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Im not the one arguing in favor of it.

I gather that.

What you are doing is suggesting that that is the Premill/Pretrib viewpoint, which it is not.

What I am doing is informing the readers of the actual viewpoint/teaching on that, so they aren't thinking to themselves, "hmm, yeah, that IS a dumb idea."

Everything in the Olivet Discourse [except for Lk21:12-24 about the events surrounding 70ad] refers to what FOLLOWS "our Rapture" (the Olivet Discourse is not Jesus covering the Subject of our Rapture, but of His Second Coming to the earth FOR the commencement of the earthly MK age, and what leads UP TO that). This means that verses such as v.14 and v.9 are speaking of what pertains to the believing remnant of Israel and what THEY will be doing IN/DURING/WITHIN the future trib years (and the results are shown in other passages I won't much go into in this post, other than, for example, Rev19:9 [distinct from 19:7] "BLESSED," speaking here of the guests [plural] "having been INVITED" [all through the (7) trib yrs on earth]. And that there are about 8-10 "BLESSED" passages total that speak to this point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth, and their [both the INVITERS and those INVITED] entrance into the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom at that point in the chronology. [But it is not that they/Israel finally come to faith only upon SEEING Him--at that point it is too late--no, they are the ones in the "INVITERS-role [-TO-the-MK-age]," throughout the trib yrs leading UP TO His "RETURN" [see also Lk12:36-37,38,40-42 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding," THEN the meal (G347), aka the earthly MK age]).



Just setting the record straight for the sake of the readers. Not saying YOU were saying what I had bolded in your quote (in my previous post), but that you were suggesting that's the Premill/Pretribbers' viewpoint (it's not).

 

[GraceAndTruth]

1. Do you believe in a Tribune Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit?

2. Do you believe Jesus Christ was fully God when he walked upon this earth?

1. its TRIUNE
2. Fully God and Fully Man

Yes I'm sure. I have spoken to JW's about their heretical belief that Jesus is a created being. Jesus is our Creator.

Who do you say Jesus Christ is? God in flesh, second person of the Trinity? Do you agree with the docrine of the trinity as agreed ty the council of Nicea?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Yes, people will be tormented in the presence of Jesus at his judgement seat as the shame of their past sins committed over aion and aion (ages and ages) are exposed for all to see. They will not exist in the presence of Christ eternally.

Now THAT is lame theology........people being TORMENTED in the presence of Jesus??
How does that work? Fifty lashes? No dessert after dinner? How about tossing them to the lions?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

God didn't pour his anger out on his Son. Sinners did.

Wrong again. God's wrath did fall on His Son as the Son took on the sins of His people (became the scapegoat) to pay the penalty in their place. That was why His cry from the cross.."my God, why have you forsaken me?" is so telling...for the first time while Christ was in the flesh, the Father was apart from Jesus, taking full payment for the sins of His people from the blood of the Son.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I gather that.

What you are doing is suggesting that that is the Premill/Pretrib viewpoint, which it is not.

What I am doing is informing the readers of the actual viewpoint/teaching on that, so they aren't thinking to themselves, "hmm, yeah, that IS a dumb idea."

Everything in the Olivet Discourse [except for Lk21:12-24 about the events surrounding 70ad] refers to what FOLLOWS "our Rapture" (the Olivet Discourse is not Jesus covering the Subject of our Rapture, but of His Second Coming to the earth FOR the commencement of the earthly MK age, and what leads UP TO that). This means that verses such as v.14 and v.9 are speaking of what pertains to the believing remnant of Israel and what THEY will be doing IN/DURING/WITHIN the future trib years (and the results are shown in other passages I won't much go into in this post, other than, for example, Rev19:9 [distinct from 19:7] "BLESSED," speaking here of the guests [plural] "having been INVITED" [all through the (7) trib yrs on earth]. And that there are about 8-10 "BLESSED" passages total that speak to this point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth, and their [both the INVITERS and those INVITED] entrance into the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom at that point in the chronology. [But it is not that they/Israel finally come to faith only upon SEEING Him--at that point it is too late--no, they are the ones in the "INVITERS-role [-TO-the-MK-age]," throughout the trib yrs leading UP TO His "RETURN" [see also Lk12:36-37,38,40-42 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding," THEN the meal (G347), aka the earthly MK age]).

Just setting the record straight for the sake of the readers. Not saying YOU were saying what I had bolded in your quote (in my previous post), but that you were suggesting that's the Premill/Pretribbers' viewpoint (it's not).

God is so orderly in His creation and in His perfect message to His people thru the bible.......that I wonder why He would send such a detailed message in Revelation as to the state of the world AFTER THE RAPTURE.......since none of God's people will be here. How can there be a revival after the rapture with no Holy Spirit??? Yet that is what Premills are told and say they believe.

And I have noted that when God gives a prophecy it is verified by HISTORY for the building of faith in believers.
Worked that way under the old covenant and God does not change. (immutable)

You have it right when you say some guests were INVITED. Others were not. (predestination)
When the bible says that after the bridegroom and His invited guests to into the feast..........the door is SHUT.
when the uninvited guests asked for admittance they were told by the bridegroom that "I do not know you" Like the people on the broad road to destruction in Matthew 7:13..'depart from Me I NEVER knew you. People are either in or out as the Lord decrees.

Parables are for our edification and should be taken in their entirety.