Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Ahwatukee]

God will send strong delusion on all nonelects. The end of time prophecies is so obvious to see through. Anyways I leave you with this verse.


Romans 8:33-39
New King James Version

33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And what does the above have to do with the order of end-time events?

Paul is merely talking about the persecution that he and other believers endure because of the faith in Christ.

The church cannot and will not be on the earth to experience God's wrath, because Jesus already experienced it, satisfying it completely.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

And what does the above have to do with the order of end-time events?

Paul is merely talking about the persecution that he and other believers endure because of the faith in Christ.

The church cannot and will not be on the earth to experience God's wrath, because Jesus already experienced it, satisfying it completely.

God's elects will be jailed or killed. Just waiting for that to happen.

 

[TMS]

And what does the above have to do with the order of end-time events?

Paul is merely talking about the persecution that he and other believers endure because of the faith in Christ.

The church cannot and will not be on the earth to experience God's wrath, because Jesus already experienced it, satisfying it completely.

True, Jesus paid it all.....but does that mean we need to be taken away?
Can God shelter his people through the tribulation, (without separating them completely), like Noah inside the arch?
Noah wasn't taken away from the flood but was safe with the flood all around.

Rom 8:37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jesus is my safety. Jesus is my shield, and my arch. It takes more faith to go through the trouble trusting Jesus then to watch it from a distance.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

True, Jesus paid it all.....but does that mean we need to be taken away?
Can God shelter his people through the tribulation, (without separating them completely), like Noah inside the arch?
Noah wasn't taken away from the flood but was safe with the flood all around.

Rom 8:37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jesus is my safety. Jesus is my shield, and my arch. It takes more faith to go through the trouble trusting Jesus then to watch it from a distance.

God's elects will be jailed or killed. Just waiting for that to happen to me.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

True, Jesus paid it all.....but does that mean we need to be taken away?
Can God shelter his people through the tribulation, (without separating them completely), like Noah inside the arch?
Noah wasn't taken away from the flood but was safe with the flood all around.

Rom 8:37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jesus is my safety. Jesus is my shield, and my arch. It takes more faith to go through the trouble trusting Jesus then to watch it from a distance.

I wonder if I will be jailed or killed for Christ. I made Satan angry a bunch of times, when I preached the gospel to a bunch of people. He than takes control of nonelects near me and they click their tongue or teeth=which means I know he is mad. Happens occasionally. Well God is sovereign and control of everything.

 

[Nehemiah6]

True, Jesus paid it all.....but does that mean we need to be taken away?

Unless you understand the spiritual reasons for the Resurrection/Rapture. you will continue to imagine that this is mere "escapism". So first of all you should ask yourself (1) Why is there a Resurrection/Rapture? (2) Why is it unrelated to any other event? and (3) How would the saints accompany Christ at His second coming from Heaven if they were not already there to begin with, and also be present at the Marriage of the Lamb? There are a lot of half-baked ideas floating around because people do not sit down and ask themselves these vital questions.

 

[TMS]

God's elects will be jailed or killed. Just waiting for that to happen to me.

If we are jailed or killed, we can have perfect peace, no fear, and even joy because the Spirit is in us. God can also save us like He did for Daniel in the lions den.

 

[TMS]

I wonder if I will be jailed or killed for Christ. I made Satan angry a bunch of times, when I preached the gospel to a bunch of people. He than takes control of nonelects near me and they click their tongue or teeth=which means I know he is mad. Happens occasionally. Well God is sovereign and control of everything.

God is in control and we can do all things through Christ. Trusting God is the key.

 

[Jackson123]

God's elects will be jailed or killed. Just waiting for that to happen to me.

Yep, it say in revelation 13

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

Yep, it say in revelation 13

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.(God's elect)
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

-Luke 21:9-17 King James Version

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you (Some of God's elects) shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Revelation 13:10 King James Version

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


-God's elects get Jailed or killed

 

[Jackson123]

-Luke 21:9-17 King James Version

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you (Some of God's elects) shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

Revelation 13:10 King James Version

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


-God's elects get Jailed or killed

Exactly, how it's happen if Christian already rapture, can those verse happen?
How people persecute Christian that already rapture?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Exactly, how it's happen if Christian already rapture, can those verse happen?

Luke 21:12-24a/b is about the events surrounding 70ad (past, from our perspective--those verses are not at all covering "our Rapture" event which is yet future to us)

How people persecute Christian that already rapture?

People will be coming to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (including those of "Israel"), and that is what (and who) Matt24:4-14 [etc], esp v.9 ("[and they] shall KILL YOU: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for My name's sake" (and parallels)] is speaking of, PER CONTEXT.

 

[Jackson123]

Luke 21:12-24a/b is about the events surrounding 70ad (past, from our perspective)

Revelation 13 is happen when antichrist in power during 7 years great tribulation

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Is in ad 70 the beast doing that in 42 month?

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Was AD 70 Rome make a war to saints ? From all nations and tongues?
AD 70 is only to Jews not all nations

But yes I believe the beast will be from Rome, Vatican.

People will be coming to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (including those of "Israel"), and that is what (and who) Matt24:4-14 [etc], esp v.9 ("[and they] shall KILL YOU: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for My name's sake" (and parallels)] is speaking of, PER CONTEXT.

What verse say only saint that repent during great tribulation will persecute?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

What verse say only saint that repent during great tribulation will persecute?

1) "great tribulation" refers to the second half of the [future] 7-yr trib only... and the persecution of that time-period will be starting well-before the "second half" begins (Matthew 24:9 is referring to "in the first half" just as the "5th Seal" events are, for example);

2) "the Church which is His body" (all those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]"--that's us) has been experiencing "persecutions and tribulations" ever since its existence in the first century [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]... (see 2Th1:4, for one example of this); we are not waiting for the future "7-yr period" in order to experience it ("Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2Tim3:12);

3) I consider the "motivations" behind the "persecutions" in each of those two distinct time-periods to be slightly differing...

4) "context" determines which of the above time-periods is being referenced (Matt24 is covering events that will take place FOLLOWING "our Rapture")

 

[Jackson123]

4) "context" determines which of the above time-periods is being referenced (Matt24 is covering events that will take place FOLLOWING "our Rapture")

The second coming and rapture happen immediately after tribulation not after rapture

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


We can't make our own bible, bible is the Word of God, not our word, don't change the Word

 

[Absolutely]

All "RETURN" verses (re: Jesus) speak of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (AFTER the Tribulation period: Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:9,12-13 / Rom11:27 / Dan9:24b).

Pre-tribbers acknowledge that.






--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (and parallel in Matt24:42-51) "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]; and

--Luke 19:12,15,17,19 (and parallels, Matt25:14-30 [etc]) "RETURN" ... when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou AUTHORITY over 10 CITIES" and "likewise... be thou also over 5 CITIES"





[the "MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" 2Th2:8b (AFTER the Trib, when "EVERY EYE" shall see Him) is not the same instance / moment / time-slot as the event in 2Th2:1 ]

nope
Acts1
Jesus returns in like manner

Alone
No horses
No army
No agenda to kill.
Peacetime
To his bride

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The second coming and rapture happen immediately after tribulation not after rapture

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Did you read the passages of the scripture references I placed in my post on the last page, where I had written this:

"All "RETURN" verses (re: Jesus) speak of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (AFTER the Tribulation period: Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:9,12-13 / Rom11:27 / Dan9:24b)."



--Matt24:29-31 corresponds with...

--Isaiah 27:9,12-13 ("GREAT trumpet" and note "WHO" and "TO WHERE" they are gathered [and BY WHOM] and IN WHAT MANNER they are gathered: "ONE by ONE, O ye children of Israel"--this is NOT the "SNATCH"-action that is "our Rapture / harpazo / SNATCH / caught away [G726]" event which will occur in ONE "SNATCH"-action, at ONE point in time, "AS ONE" [the "ONE BODY"]); and this Isaiah 27:9,12-13 passage in turn corresponds with...

--Romans 11:27 "For this is my covenant UNTO THEM, when I shall take away THEIR sins" (speaking of Israel) which passage corresponds with...

--Daniel 9:24's prophecy (concerning "[__(time-spans)_] are DETERMINED UPON THY [Daniel's] people, AND UPON THY [Daniel's] holy city") where v.24b refers to "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins" (see again Isaiah 27:9[12-13] / Rom11:27 / Rom 9:26 [re: Israel] / Hos1:10-11... all regarding Israel's "future"... and where Matt24:29-31 CORRESPONDS with Isa27:9,12-13 "ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel... to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM" (i.e. to ONE LOCATION *on the earth*)--this is NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event!)

We can't make our own bible, bible is the Word of God, not our word, don't change the Word

It does help to study it diligently and to compare Scripture with Scripture, however. As well as to "correctly apportion the word of truth" as we are exhorted to do, in 2Tim2:15... rather than to merely lump everything together into one big mish-mash of mush.

 

[soberxp]

The second coming and rapture happen immediately ， yes you are right ,but your flesh body still on earth, only your spiritual body catch up there........
And you can look closely at the past and future events in the world.

 

[Rondonmon]

You are interpreting the above scripture as though when the Lord comes the earth that at that time will be burned up. By doing so, you ignore other scriptures such as the nations beating their swords into plough shares and spears into pruning hooks which takes place at the onset of the millennial kingdom. You are also not taking into consideration that 'the Day of the Lord' is a time period which covers different events. And you are treating the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being the same event, which they are not. Your are basically zeroing in on this one scripture and disregarding the rest.

They do not understand the Day of the Lord only STARTS with God's Wrath, it lasts 1003 and 1/2 years. It will end with this earth being a ball of fire so to speak, Jesus/God starts over. Thus the "Day of the Lord" technically brings that event also, but Paul/Peter just inform us of the end of the earth as we know it. I think Satan wins his prize, this earth will be his, God will pull out His spirit and the earth will become hell.

 

[DeanM]

God has always removed his people before destruction. Rahab, Lot and Noah come to mind.