Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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Yes we realize dead men are essential to your doctrine.
with out darby you have no doctrine.
your best hope is nobody with a biblie redirects you into proving your deal SCRIPTURALLY.
Look...you have nothing to refute the fact that the second coming on white horses is neither this;
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
NOR THIS;
Acts 1
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
NOR THIS;
1Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
NOR THIS;
Mat 24
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Your doctrine is busted
on that dimension alone.
not to mention that the mark is required for all earths inhabitants or they are beheaded.
then showus WITH VERSES ....NOT DARBY...the rapture by the one sitting on the white horse
this will be interesting as,in your circles of anti pretribbers, you convince yourselves of a theory with no verses
rev 14.
read it.
three groups gathered.
2 DURING the trib.
i know...i know...nobody sees it.
that is called "revelatory" when it is actually seen.
i see it
All "RETURN" verses (re: Jesus) speak of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (AFTER the Tribulation period: Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:9,12-13 / Rom11:27 / Dan9:24b).
Pre-tribbers acknowledge that.
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (and parallel in Matt24:42-51) "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]; and
--Luke 19:12,15,17,19 (and parallels, Matt25:14-30 [etc]) "RETURN" ... when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou AUTHORITY over 10 CITIES" and "likewise... be thou also over 5 CITIES"
[the "MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" 2Th2:8b (AFTER the Trib, when "EVERY EYE" shall see Him) is not the same instance / moment / time-slot as the event in 2Th2:1
]
Darby is no part of my doctrine friend. I posted the links because someone did not know who he was.
All "RETURN" verses (re: Jesus) speak of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (AFTER the Tribulation period: Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:9,12-13 / Rom11:27 / Dan9:24b).
Pre-tribbers acknowledge that.
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (and parallel in Matt24:42-51) "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]; and
--Luke 19:12,15,17,19 (and parallels, Matt25:14-30 [etc]) "RETURN" ... when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou AUTHORITY over 10 CITIES" and "likewise... be thou also over 5 CITIES"
[the "MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" 2Th2:8b (AFTER the Trib, when "EVERY EYE" shall see Him) is not the same instance / moment / time-slot as the event in 2Th2:1
None of them say the rapture happens before the tribulation or that Jesus returns before the tribulation. If they existed then this wouldn't even be a debate or a discussion to be had.
If people would diligently study the word of God they wouldn't teach errors to others, and God will hold people accountable for leading people in erroneous ways. Now, regular human beings can have ONE GAME with 4 quarters but God can't have ONE RESURRECTION over 7 years followed by a Second Resurrection 1000 years later (LOL). So, common sense tells us God can indeed have a First Resurrection of those in Christ and the Second Resurrection of those not of Crist 1000 years later. So, the practical thing to do is to test the timings, not to question if God can have one resurrection over 7 years. Of course, He can, it's called the FIRST because it's separated unto only those in Chris Jesus. So, do the Scriptures show these is a Pre Trib Rapture and a Rapture at the Second Coming? Yes, it does. But I wonder if that will be good enough, somehow I doubt it. You guys are more interested in your theories it seems.
Let's see, 1 Cor 15 show the dead in Christ arising first (Paul is only reassuring them MHO here, that their loved ones will be raised, I don't think you can actually tell the difference in a MOMENTS FLASH/Twinkling of an eye) then we go to Heaven to marry the Lamb. We are in Heaven and we marry the Lamb in Rev. 19 for all to see, then we RETURN and the Beast is still ruling on earth.
Then in Rev. 20:4, we see those who were killed for NOT TAKING the ark of the Beast are Raised AND Judged, but not only that, they are singled out specifically as the only ones who will remain on earth with Jesus for his 1000 year reign. Only the ones who have received Glorious bodies, the 3-5 million Jews still alive will repopulate the earth along with others who escaped the Anti-Christ death toll.
So, if the end time resurrection is as you say (it is not) how do we have the Bride coming back from Heaven in Rev. 19 and those who died during the 70th week tribulation period being Judged AFTER this Return. It's very. very simple math. We have 1.) a Pre trib Rapture of the Church of Jesus Christ AND 2.) a Post trib rapture of the Saints who received not the Mark of the Beast AND all the Jews who were told by Jesus they were the Wheat and would grow together with the wicked tares until the very end, then they would be gathered into the barn, whilst the tares would be bundled together to be burned at a later date.
NOW, there is ZERO CHANCE you have is answering this and getting it correct unless one admits there has to be aq pre trib rapture that takes the Churh to Heaven to Marry the Lamb, AND THEN AFTERWARDS, in Rev. 20:4, those who died during the 70th week are Judged at a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TIME.
You have NO CHANCE at winning this debate, PERIOD.
Rev. 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Just in case you want to argue this is not the Bride/Church.........SE BELOW:
Rev. 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
NOW TO FINISH THIS DEBATE......................
Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These in Rev. 20:4 are RAISED & JUDGED AFTER Jesus' return. Those in Rev. 19 return with Jesus BEFORE HE RETURNS, naturally, since we come back with him. Now admit your theory is destroyed. Or cling to it knowing it's not correct brother, the choice is yours.
2 Peter 3:10-13
King James Version
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 20:7-10
King James Version
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
King James Version
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Then when the Real Jesus Christ comes back, God's children (God's elects) will first meet Jesus Christ in the air and Satan's children will be hiding under rocks and mountains.
Everyone is going to see Jesus Christ. (Revelation 1:7)
Then the 7th trumpet which is the last trumpet is blown (Revelation 11:15-19, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 1 Corinthians 15:52, Matthew 24:30-31, Isaiah 11:11-12), Jesus Christ comes and every eye will see him (Revelation 1:7) "7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."
and
"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matthew 24:27)
and
"For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day." (Luke 17:24)
and
"30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matthew 24:30-31).
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)
The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming.
Don't where you guys get your 1000 year physical kingdom, there is no more waiting. First coming is when Jesus dead, rose from the dead and later rose to right hand of God to set up 1000 spiritual kingdom. 2nd coming is when he burns down the old heaven and old earth. False prophecies must have been set up by Satan, so that when he comes with great false miracles and all nonelects will worship him as the fake 2nd Coming of Jesus. I also know God will send strong delusion on all nonelects.
Revelation 21:1 King James Version
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (got burned down); and there was no more sea.
Mark 13:26-27
King James Version (KJV)
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
1000 year kingdom is a spiritual kingdom when Jesus sat down on the right hand of God. All of God's elects receive Holy Spirit get transferred from Satan's kingdom to Christ's 1000 year spiritual kingdom.
Looks like the old heaven and old earth gets burned down, along with the nonelects physical bodies.
Then read 1 Corinthians 15:12-58 which talks about God's elects
changing from physical bodies to spiritual bodies quicker than the blink of an eye.
In 1 Corinthians 15:50 it says "that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" which
means we can't go to Heaven with our physical bodies,
which is why God will change them into spiritual bodies.
Than all souls get judged.
Separation between sheeps (God's elects) and goats (nonelects):
Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 34, Matthew 13:36-49, Matthew 25:31-46 and Luke 6:20-26
Great white throne is the judgment day.
Revelation 20:11-15, Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 25:31-46 and John 5:26-30.
Jesus gives back his kingdom to God the Father, after everything is finished. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
It is when new Heaven and new earth are created.
(Isaiah 35:10, Isaiah 62:1-12, Isaiah 65:17-25, Zephaniah 3:9-20 and Revelation 21-22)
God can do anything he chooses within his nature and character. What matters is if Scripture teaches that is what he will do.
^ Where Paul writes in 1Cor15:51-54...
--"THIS [G3778 touto] corruptible"
[and]
--"THIS G3778 touto] mortal"
...he is referring to "THIS [particular] corruptible" and THIS [particular] mortal"... not EVERY corruptible of all times and not EVERY mortal ever, of all times... rather, he is addressing (per context) IN PARTICULAR "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (i.e. all those saved "in this present age [singular]"... not all ppl ever, and not even all saints/believers ever, in this context)
____________
P.S. Bible students, when reading 2Pet3:10-12, should also read not only Isaiah 34:4 (a singular verse extracted from its context), but the ENTIRE TWO CHPTS of Isaiah 34-35, to ascertain better what Peter is referencing.
--"THIS [G3778 touto] corruptible"
[and]
--"THIS G3778 touto] mortal"
...he is referring to "THIS [particular] corruptible" and THIS [particular] mortal"... not EVERY corruptible of all times and not EVERY mortal ever, of all times... rather, he is addressing (per context) IN PARTICULAR "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (i.e. all those saved "in this present age [singular]"... not all ppl ever, and not even all saints/believers ever, in this context)
____________
P.S. Bible students, when reading 2Pet3:10-12, should also read not only Isaiah 34:4 (a singular verse extracted from its context), but the ENTIRE TWO CHPTS of Isaiah 34-35, to ascertain better what Peter is referencing.
1 Corinthians 15
Easy-to-Read Version
The Good News About Jesus Christ
15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want you to remember the Good News I told you. You received that Good News message, and you continue to base your life on it. 2 That Good News, the message you heard from me, is God’s way to save you. But you must continue believing it. If you don’t, you believed for nothing.
3 I gave you the message that I received. I told you the most important truths: that Christ died for our sins, as the Scriptures say; 4 that he was buried and was raised to life on the third day, as the Scriptures say; 5 and that he appeared to Peter and then to the twelve apostles. 6 After that Christ appeared to more than 500 other believers at the same time. Most of them are still living today, but some have died. 7 Then he appeared to James and later to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, he appeared to me. I was different, like a baby born before the normal time.
9 All the other apostles are greater than I am. I say this because I persecuted the church of God. That is why I am not even good enough to be called an apostle. 10 But, because of God’s grace, that is what I am. And his grace that he gave me was not wasted. I worked harder than all the other apostles. (But I was not really the one working. It was God’s grace that was with me.) 11 So then it is not important if I told you God’s message or if it was the other apostles who told you—we all tell people the same message, and this is what you believed.
We Will Be Raised From Death
12 We tell everyone that Christ was raised from death. So why do some of you say that people will not be raised from death? 13 If no one will ever be raised from death, then Christ has never been raised. 14 And if Christ has never been raised, then the message we tell is worth nothing. And your faith is worth nothing. 15 And we will also be guilty of lying about God, because we have told people about him, saying that he raised Christ from death. And if no one is raised from death, then God never raised Christ from death. 16 If those who have died are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised from death, then your faith is for nothing; you are still guilty of your sins. 18 And those in Christ who have already died are lost. 19 If our hope in Christ is only for this life here on earth, then people should feel more sorry for us than for anyone else.
20 But Christ really has been raised from death—the first one of all those who will be raised. 21 Death comes to people because of what one man did. But now there is resurrection from death because of another man. 22 I mean that in Adam all of us die. And in the same way, in Christ all of us will be made alive again. 23 But everyone will be raised to life in the right order. Christ was first to be raised. Then, when Christ comes again, those who belong to him will be raised to life. 24 Then the end will come. Christ will destroy all rulers, authorities, and powers. Then he will give the kingdom to God the Father.
25 Christ must rule until God puts all enemies under his control.[a] 26 The last enemy to be destroyed will be death. 27 As the Scriptures say, “God put everything under his control.” When it says that “everything” is put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself. God is the one putting everything under Christ’s control. 28 After everything has been put under Christ, then the Son himself will be put under God. God is the one who put everything under Christ. And Christ will be put under God so that God will be the complete ruler over everything.
29 If no one will ever be raised from death, then what will the people do who are baptized for those who have died? If the dead are never raised, then why are people baptized for them?
30 And what about us? Why do we put ourselves in danger every hour? 31 I face death every day. That is true, brothers and sisters, just as it is true that I am proud of what you are because of Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 I fought wild animals in Ephesus. If I did that only for human reasons, then I have gained nothing. If we are not raised from death, “Let us eat and drink, because tomorrow we die.”[c]
33 Don’t be fooled: “Bad friends will ruin good habits.” 34 Come back to your right way of thinking and stop sinning. Some of you don’t know God. I say this to shame you.
What Kind of Body Will We Have?
35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have?” 36 These are stupid questions. When you plant something, it must die in the ground before it can live and grow. 37 And when you plant something, what you plant does not have the same “body” that it will have later. What you plant is only a seed, maybe wheat or something else. 38 But God gives it the body that he has planned for it, and he gives each kind of seed its own body. 39 All things made of flesh are not the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds have another, and fish have yet another kind. 40 Also there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the beauty of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the beauty of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of beauty, the moon has another kind, and the stars have another. And each star is different in its beauty.
42 It will be the same when those who have died are raised to life. The body that is “planted” in the grave will ruin and decay, but it will be raised to a life that cannot be destroyed. 43 When the body is “planted,” it is without honor. But when it is raised, it will be great and glorious. When the body is “planted,” it is weak. But when it is raised, it will be full of power. 44 The body that is “planted” is a physical body. When it is raised, it will be a spiritual body.
There is a physical body. So there is also a spiritual body. 45 As the Scriptures say, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.[d]”[e] But the last Adam[f] is a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual man did not come first. It was the physical man that came first; then came the spiritual. 47 The first man came from the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven. 48 All people belong to the earth. They are like that first man of earth. But those who belong to heaven are like that man of heaven. 49 We were made like that man of earth, so we will also be made like that man of heaven.
50 I tell you this, brothers and sisters: Our bodies of flesh and blood cannot have a part in God’s kingdom. Something that will ruin cannot have a part in something that never ruins. 51 But listen, I tell you this secret: We will not all die, but we will all be changed. 52 It will only take the time of a second. We will be changed as quickly as an eye blinks. This will happen when the last trumpet blows. The trumpet will blow and those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we will all be changed. 53 This body that ruins must clothe itself with something that will never ruin. And this body that dies must clothe itself with something that will never die. 54 So this body that ruins will clothe itself with that which never ruins. And this body that dies will clothe itself with that which never dies. When this happens, the Scriptures will be made true:
“Death is swallowed in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
Where is your power to hurt?”
56 Death’s power to hurt is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But we thank God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!
58 So, my dear brothers and sisters, stand strong. Don’t let anything change you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord. You know that your work in the Lord is never wasted.
Easy-to-Read Version
The Good News About Jesus Christ
15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want you to remember the Good News I told you. You received that Good News message, and you continue to base your life on it. 2 That Good News, the message you heard from me, is God’s way to save you. But you must continue believing it. If you don’t, you believed for nothing.
3 I gave you the message that I received. I told you the most important truths: that Christ died for our sins, as the Scriptures say; 4 that he was buried and was raised to life on the third day, as the Scriptures say; 5 and that he appeared to Peter and then to the twelve apostles. 6 After that Christ appeared to more than 500 other believers at the same time. Most of them are still living today, but some have died. 7 Then he appeared to James and later to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, he appeared to me. I was different, like a baby born before the normal time.
9 All the other apostles are greater than I am. I say this because I persecuted the church of God. That is why I am not even good enough to be called an apostle. 10 But, because of God’s grace, that is what I am. And his grace that he gave me was not wasted. I worked harder than all the other apostles. (But I was not really the one working. It was God’s grace that was with me.) 11 So then it is not important if I told you God’s message or if it was the other apostles who told you—we all tell people the same message, and this is what you believed.
We Will Be Raised From Death
12 We tell everyone that Christ was raised from death. So why do some of you say that people will not be raised from death? 13 If no one will ever be raised from death, then Christ has never been raised. 14 And if Christ has never been raised, then the message we tell is worth nothing. And your faith is worth nothing. 15 And we will also be guilty of lying about God, because we have told people about him, saying that he raised Christ from death. And if no one is raised from death, then God never raised Christ from death. 16 If those who have died are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised from death, then your faith is for nothing; you are still guilty of your sins. 18 And those in Christ who have already died are lost. 19 If our hope in Christ is only for this life here on earth, then people should feel more sorry for us than for anyone else.
20 But Christ really has been raised from death—the first one of all those who will be raised. 21 Death comes to people because of what one man did. But now there is resurrection from death because of another man. 22 I mean that in Adam all of us die. And in the same way, in Christ all of us will be made alive again. 23 But everyone will be raised to life in the right order. Christ was first to be raised. Then, when Christ comes again, those who belong to him will be raised to life. 24 Then the end will come. Christ will destroy all rulers, authorities, and powers. Then he will give the kingdom to God the Father.
25 Christ must rule until God puts all enemies under his control.[a] 26 The last enemy to be destroyed will be death. 27 As the Scriptures say, “God put everything under his control.” When it says that “everything” is put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself. God is the one putting everything under Christ’s control. 28 After everything has been put under Christ, then the Son himself will be put under God. God is the one who put everything under Christ. And Christ will be put under God so that God will be the complete ruler over everything.
29 If no one will ever be raised from death, then what will the people do who are baptized for those who have died? If the dead are never raised, then why are people baptized for them?
30 And what about us? Why do we put ourselves in danger every hour? 31 I face death every day. That is true, brothers and sisters, just as it is true that I am proud of what you are because of Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 I fought wild animals in Ephesus. If I did that only for human reasons, then I have gained nothing. If we are not raised from death, “Let us eat and drink, because tomorrow we die.”[c]
33 Don’t be fooled: “Bad friends will ruin good habits.” 34 Come back to your right way of thinking and stop sinning. Some of you don’t know God. I say this to shame you.
What Kind of Body Will We Have?
35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have?” 36 These are stupid questions. When you plant something, it must die in the ground before it can live and grow. 37 And when you plant something, what you plant does not have the same “body” that it will have later. What you plant is only a seed, maybe wheat or something else. 38 But God gives it the body that he has planned for it, and he gives each kind of seed its own body. 39 All things made of flesh are not the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds have another, and fish have yet another kind. 40 Also there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the beauty of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the beauty of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of beauty, the moon has another kind, and the stars have another. And each star is different in its beauty.
42 It will be the same when those who have died are raised to life. The body that is “planted” in the grave will ruin and decay, but it will be raised to a life that cannot be destroyed. 43 When the body is “planted,” it is without honor. But when it is raised, it will be great and glorious. When the body is “planted,” it is weak. But when it is raised, it will be full of power. 44 The body that is “planted” is a physical body. When it is raised, it will be a spiritual body.
There is a physical body. So there is also a spiritual body. 45 As the Scriptures say, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.[d]”[e] But the last Adam[f] is a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual man did not come first. It was the physical man that came first; then came the spiritual. 47 The first man came from the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven. 48 All people belong to the earth. They are like that first man of earth. But those who belong to heaven are like that man of heaven. 49 We were made like that man of earth, so we will also be made like that man of heaven.
50 I tell you this, brothers and sisters: Our bodies of flesh and blood cannot have a part in God’s kingdom. Something that will ruin cannot have a part in something that never ruins. 51 But listen, I tell you this secret: We will not all die, but we will all be changed. 52 It will only take the time of a second. We will be changed as quickly as an eye blinks. This will happen when the last trumpet blows. The trumpet will blow and those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we will all be changed. 53 This body that ruins must clothe itself with something that will never ruin. And this body that dies must clothe itself with something that will never die. 54 So this body that ruins will clothe itself with that which never ruins. And this body that dies will clothe itself with that which never dies. When this happens, the Scriptures will be made true:
“Death is swallowed in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
Where is your power to hurt?”
56 Death’s power to hurt is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But we thank God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!
58 So, my dear brothers and sisters, stand strong. Don’t let anything change you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord. You know that your work in the Lord is never wasted.
Greetings!
You are interpreting the above scripture as though when the Lord comes the earth that at that time will be burned up. By doing so, you ignore other scriptures such as the nations beating their swords into plough shares and spears into pruning hooks which takes place at the onset of the millennial kingdom. You are also not taking into consideration that 'the Day of the Lord' is a time period which covers different events. And you are treating the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being the same event, which they are not. Your are basically zeroing in on this one scripture and disregarding the rest.
If you were paying attention to the chronological order in Revelation, Jesus along with his church, is shown to be returning to the earth to confront the beast and the kings of the earth and all their armies gathered at Armageddon and to end the age in Rev.19:11-21. At this time the beast and the false prophet are both captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire, the wicked are killed with the double-edged sword and Satan is cast into the Abyss for a thousand years, which is where we get our understanding that there will be a thousand year reign of Christ on this earth after He returns to end the age. At the end of that thousand years, Satan will also be cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown a thousand years earlier.
The above context says nothing about the church being gathered, but is referring to the destruction of the man of lawlessness/beast and God sending a strong delusion upon the wicked to believe the lies of those miracles, signs and wonders that the false prophet will be performing on behalf of the beast. The church is not on the earth at this time because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and which is another important factor that you continue to leave out.
(Continued)
The 7th trumpet and the last trumpet have nothing in common, but are two different types of trumpets. The trumpet of God/last trumpet of 1 Thess.4:16 and 1 Cor.15:52, is the Lord's voice that will sound like a trumpet where the dead in Christ will rise and the living will be changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. In opposition, the 7th trumpet is one of the plagues of wrath that God will be pouring out upon the earth. In addition, there is nothing in the context that even hints about the church being gathered at the 7th trumpet. And another reason that the church cannot be gathered here, is because it would put the living church through the majority of God's wrath, which again, we are not appointed to suffer.
Once again, all of the scriptures above are referring to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. The reference to "every eye shall see Him, even those who pierced Him" is referring to everyone who is still alive on the earth to witness the Lord's return, for the majority of the earths population will have been decimated. Therefore, when it says "every eye" it is referring to those who will be on the earth at that time. The church will indeed see Him, because according Rev.17:14, 19:6-8 we will be returning with the Lord out of heaven following Him on white horses when He returns to the earth to end the age.
The scriptures above is referring to when the Lord comes to gather His church, which takes place prior to God's wrath and prior the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Your error is that you have tunnel vision! You don't incorporate other scriptures into your conclusions.
You don't know where we got our 1000 year physical kingdom? You wrote it down in part yourself up above in one of the scriptures which says "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison."
From Revelation 20:1 thru 7, 'a 1000 years' is referred to 6 times:
1). Satan is cast into the Abyss for a thousand years (Rev.20:1-3)
2). And will remain their until the thousand years are completed (Rev.20:1-3)
3). The great saints who will died during the tribulation will come to life and reign with Christ a thousand years. (Rev.20:4)
4). The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. (Rev.20:5)
5). Regarding the tribulation saints: they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. (Rev.20:6)
6). When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations. (Rev.20:7)
Do you now understand where we get the idea of a literal thousand year kingdom which begins when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age?
No, Jesus did not ascend to the right hand of God to set up thousand year kingdom and you will not read that anywhere. Your claim would infer that Satan is currently sealed in the Abyss, which is ridiculous to even entertain. And you would be saying that the tribulation saints are currently ruling with Christ on this current earth, which would also be a ridiculous claim.
When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the following events will take place at the on-set of the thousand years.
"He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." - Isaiah 2:4
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. - Matthew 25:32-33
So just based on those two scriptures alone, when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, He will settle disputes with those nations who are going to enter into the millennial kingdom. And there will be a judgment of the goats and the sheep, just to name a few. The earth and everything in it melting in fervent heat doesn't take place until after the thousand years and just before the great white throne judgment.
All you are doing is bringing in partial information regarding end-time events.
The above takes place after the thousand years and after the great white throne judgment.
The above takes place when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. The angels will be gathering those who made it alive through the entire tribulation period, with the wicked being destroyed by the Lord and righteous entering into the millennial kingdom to repopulate the earth
The thousand year kingdom will be a literal kingdom, with a literal temple and people still in their mortal bodies.
I got rid of everything else because it is just repetitive.
Your error is that you don't include all of the details regarding end-time events.
God will send strong delusion on all nonelects. The end of time prophecies is so obvious to see through. Anyways I leave you with this verse.
Romans 8:33-39
New King James Version
33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.