Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

[BroTan]

What a shame they're willing to throw away eternity in exchange for a few seasonal pleasures of sinful habit.

In the scriptures it's written in Ezekiel 18: 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

So hopefully we can shine the light on those who are lost.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Rom 14:4, Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6, He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Notice that it does not specify Saturday as being the day that a man esteems above another; which provides for Sunday as being that day in certain perspectives.

But even if it were specifying Saturday, in verse 6 the one who does not regard it does not regard it to the Lord; and so his not regarding the day is sanctified.

Paul's referring to the Mosaic Law, not the Moral Law. The Bible makes a very distinct difference between the two, and it's theological skullduggery to morph the two into one. Paul is telling Jewish Christian converts if they wanna continue to keep Jewish Feast days and their respective menus, do so, but don't condemn other Jews for recognizing it's no longer required.

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Any condemnation of works in the NT is a condemnation of an attempt to earn merit by works, not the idea of works in and of itself. It is a violation of hermeneutics to employ such verses for antinomianist purposes when there are plenty of NT verses telling us that those who refuse to keep God's commandments are going to split hell wide open, no matter how much they swing their arms to the music in church.

 

[Laura798]

If Jesus could have removed the law that reveals sin...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

..... If He could changed the law and change the results of breaking the law....

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death;

.... then why did He die on the cross for us? Why did He suffer the greatest pain for something that didn't need to be?

May i suggest that you think about this, the reason that Jesus paid our debt and suffered the cross was because the law of liberty is not a law that God will even change. This law is love and it's principles are about harmony in the universe. If the law is not active today and has been made void then we are free to be lawless and disobey without consequence (that is not grace).

Law -- Jesus -- grace

No law to reveal sin means no need for grace. Grace can not be given if you have not done anything wrong. If there is no law we can not do anything wrong.

I do not keep the law to be saved but keep the law because Jesus has 100% covered me with His grace. By grace i am saved.

TMS, I agree but would like to add this:

1. The Mosaic Law and the 10 Commandments are two different things. We are no longer under the Law--that is the Mosaic Law--and the thing that needs to be highlighted among all the rules and regulations--some quite practical, actually---- is the sacrifices are DONE AWAY with. Christ is our sacrifice.
2. Christ said "If you love me keep my commandments"--these are the 10 Commandments written on the tablets of stone by the very finger of God! This signifies that these are unto perpetuity. And John says , "In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,"
3. So we obey out of love, not so we can achieve our own righteousness, in hope of gaining eternal life--true Christians know we are saved by Christ's imputed righteousness. And honestly, living by the commandments will give us a more peaceful and contented life.

"12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose."--Philippians

The gospel of grace without obedience has done a great harm to the church--the church looks like the world--"be in the world, but not of the world." "Should we continue to sin, that grace may abound? May it never be!"

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul's referring to the Mosaic Law, not the Moral Law. The Bible makes a very distinct difference between the two, and it's theological skullduggery to morph the two into one. Paul is telling Jewish Christian converts if they wanna continue to keep Jewish Feast days and their respective menus, do so, but don't condemn other Jews for recognizing it's no longer required.
Any condemnation of works in the NT is a condemnation of an attempt to earn merit by works, not the idea of works in and of itself. It is a violation of hermeneutics to employ such verses for antinomianist purposes when there are plenty of NT verses telling us that those who refuse to keep God's commandments are going to split hell wide open, no matter how much they swing their arms to the music in church.

And the key word there is "refuse".

If anyone desires to be obedient to the Lord for that he has been redeemed through the blood of Christ, if he "messes up" and violates the law in some way, shape, or form; yet he has been redeemed through the blood of Jesus and will continue to be redeemed by it.

We have an unshakable identity in Christ...that we are righteous, because of our faith...even when we blow it (Romans 4:5).

The exhoration being, that, now that you have this identity, go and live like it (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:5; Matthew 5:20).

 

[Phoneman-777]

In the scriptures it's written in Ezekiel 18: 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

So hopefully we can shine the light on those who are lost.

Antinomianists argue that Jesus will say to the many who cry "Lord Lord" in the judgment, "I never knew you, depart from Me", and insist this means those who will be lost were never known by Jesus, and thus never saved.

I always point out that one little word "many" and remind them "many" does not mean "all".

Yes, there will be "many" unknown to Jesus who swung their arms in church and performed miracles by the power of devils, but there will also be those among "all" who wind up in the Lake of Fire those who were fully converted, grace saved Christians but kicked Jesus off the throne of their heart and took His place there, and wound up lost. The Unmerciful Servant, the capitulating canine, the washed sow, the man again entangled in the polluted world, the "many" who allowed abounding inequity to kill their agape love cold and dead, the enlightened recipients of the Holy Spirit that wind up fallen away into impenitence, etc....all these attest to the fact that Jesus will have fully known some who wind up splitting hell wide open.

 

[Magenta]

John 6:37

 

[Phoneman-777]

And the key word there is "refuse".

If anyone desires to be obedient to the Lord for that he has been redeemed through the blood of Christ, if he "messes up" and violates the law in some way, shape, or form; yet he has been redeemed through the blood of Jesus and will continue to be redeemed by it.

I'm happy you differentiate between the two classes of sin and sinners in the NT, the Just Man whose sin is "not unto death" and the Presumptuous Man whose sin is "unto death".

While the Just Man may stumble and fall down into the pit of sin, cry out to God for help, and take hold of His uplifting hand that both cleans him up and sets him back on the Path of the Just, the Presumptuous Man climbs down into it, sits down comfortably among the filth, swats away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and jams his OSAS License to Sin in the Lord's face. There is no mercy for that man, as Proverbs 28:13 KJV makes abundantly clear.

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm happy you differentiate between the two classes of sin and sinners in the NT, the Just Man whose sin is "not unto death" and the Presumptuous Man whose sin is "unto death".

While the Just Man may stumble and fall down into the pit of sin, cry out to God for help, and take hold of His uplifting hand that both cleans him up and sets him back on the Path of the Just, the Presumptuous Man climbs down into it, sits down comfortably among the filth, swats away the uplifting hand of Jesus, and jams his OSAS License to Sin in the Lord's face. There is no mercy for that man, as Proverbs 28:13 KJV makes abundantly clear.

Yes, I am in perfect agreement with your statements here.

 

[Phoneman-777]

 

[Magenta]

From Matthew 5

 

[Phoneman-777]

 

[Phoneman-777]

 

[Grandpa]

Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV plainly states that it's the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath day, the reason being that the man who has entered into Jesus' rest is to cease from his own works as God did from His. Of what kind of rest did God partake on the 7th day? Rest from literal work.
No, sir, it is you who needs to stop this futile attempt to make other verses take the edge off 1 John 2:3-4 KJV when those verses do no such thing, and accept the truth that is contained in them as they are written: that the man who claims to "love love love" Jesus but refuses to stop driving fresh iniquitous nails into His hands and feet is a liar who will split hell wide open because he doesn't know the first thing about Him or the salvation He offers.
Of course Galatians 3 is in condemnation of salvation by works, and not works altogether as you claim, because this same Paul says "we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works..." How asinine of Paul it would be to condemn works in his letter to the church in Galatia -- as you claim -- and then turn around and tell the Ephesus church that good works are foreordained.
There you antinomianists go again, building straw man arguments by putting false ideas into the mouths of your opposition because you have no Scriptural footing upon which to stand. We Bible Christians believe to be eternally true what Jesus and Paul said when He said in Luke 17:10 KJV that doing all our Lord says to do is "unprofitable", and what Paul said in Romans 8:7 KJV that it's impossible for the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God even if it wanted to be.

It's time to put away your rebellion and keep the commandments Jesus spoke with His own voice and wrote with His own finger in stone, because if you hate the idea of keeping them now, what makes you think you'll be excited to keep them for all eternity with the rest of us who believe "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God"???

Most of the problem with your philosophy is that its against scripture.

The rest of the problem with your philosophy is that its impossible for you to attain.

But by all means, keep pounding your head against that wall and insist other Christians do it with you. Don't let logic, common sense and scripture stand in your way...

 

[studentoftheword]

Being under the New Covenant of Grace does not give us a licence to sin -----It will make us not want to grieve the Holy Spirit by giving into sin -----Paul was tormented by Satan and called on God 3 times for Him to take the torment away and God said My Grace is sufficient ---in your weakness my Grace gives you strength ---we have to keep sin under control by calling on Jesus who is Grace for strength to resist sin -----Jesus is the only one who can give us the power and ability to resist missing the mark -----

Satan still has the ability to access our thoughts and keep us in the sin mode ------Jesus defeated Satan's sting of death on the Cross but Satan is still the god of this world and has access to us through our minds -----we have to put on the Helmet of God's armour ----so the fiery darts of the devil does not penetrate our thoughts ------ we have to cast down bad thoughts ----

This is our job to do ----Jesus who is Grace provided the way ----up to us to maintain ---


2 Corinthians 10:5

King James Version

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[Grandpa]

I have no doubt there are those seeking truth who observe in silence, and am grateful to God for the opportunity to expose error with the light of Spiritual truth, that they may discern right from wrong.

For too long, these false pulpit prophets and teachers of hyper grace/OSAS have been wielding that double edged sword against the truth, as did these same deceivers of Ezekiel's day (Ezekiel 13:22 KJV): a sword that makes the heart of righteous Christians sad by condemning them for preaching the truth about grace and works, as well as strengthening the hands of wicked, unconverted churchgoers that they may continue in wickedness by "promising them life" eternal with Jesus with their false hyper grace, OSAS nonsense.

Its been Pharisees since the very beginning that have been against Grace.

You can call it "hyper" grace because that seems easier for you to condemn it. But Pharisees have been condemning Grace since the beginning. That's why they are Pharisees, and that's why they get to work at the Law. That's their curse for rejecting Grace.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[Grandpa]

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the Ten Commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11: 1-47. Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind. Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc…Leviticus 23: 1-44. All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).

Using Paul writing will not help slide away from the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, because Paul kept the Sabbath day and taught the Gentiles. So how can you made Paul look bad like that...(Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.

How is Romans 14 chapter helping you keep a day that's not written in the Bible? For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (Romans 14:17).

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


How could Paul keep writing this, over and over, in every one of his epistles if he wanted people to keep the saturday sabbath because it is in the Law???

Don't you know that would make him contradict his own word?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


Paul is saying that those who are under the law are obligated to do ALL the things written in the Book of the Law. That means if you are going to "keep" a saturday sabbath then you have to do ALL the other things as well. That means you are practicing JUDAISM and not CHRISTIANITY.

Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


How can you attempt to teach when you don't understand scripture? Don't you think you should learn before you teach?

 

[Omegatime]

I dont understand why you are just debating the Law---Scriptures actually say Torah which is much more than the Law, and then what about the prophets?

 

[Laura798]

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


How could Paul keep writing this, over and over, in every one of his epistles if he wanted people to keep the saturday sabbath because it is in the Law???

Don't you know that would make him contradict his own word?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


Paul is saying that those who are under the law are obligated to do ALL the things written in the Book of the Law. That means if you are going to "keep" a saturday sabbath then you have to do ALL the other things as well. That means you are practicing JUDAISM and not CHRISTIANITY.

Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


How can you attempt to teach when you don't understand scripture? Don't you think you should learn before you teach?

There is a difference between the Mosaic Law with its sacrifices and the 10 Commandments--are you saying people can now commit adultery, steal, --that they can break all of the commandments--they are a WHOLE--we can't pick and choose. All my life I gathered for assembly on Sunday which nearly all Christendom does--in fact Sunday has been called the Sabbath since Constantine issued it as the official day of rest. "He will seek to change times and laws". However, I began to study this recently and realize you can't change the Sabbath--it is one of the 10 Commandments. Jesus said, "If you love me keep my commandments." John 5:3 says, "In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome."

We read in the book of Acts that Paul was in the synagogue every Sabbath teaching; the believers, both Jews and Gentiles met on the Sabbath day at the synagogue and they also met every day in their homes. People like to quote Jesus is our Sabbath rest--but that does not mean he is the literal Sabbath day, it is a figurative term meaning we can rest from the works of the LAW--it's not about physically resting from our work. It is not only a day of rest given to us by God but it is a day to remember his finished work of creation, which so many Christians don't even see as important--you will find many who believe in evolution. This is NOT about legalism--Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath."

note; people also like to quote the verse, "let know one judge you regarding meat or drink, or a sabbath day--A sabbath day is NOT the same as THE Sabbath day--'a' sabbath day are the special high holy days--like some Christians celebrate Christmas and Easter.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Most of the problem with your philosophy is that its against scripture.

The rest of the problem with your philosophy is that its impossible for you to attain.

But by all means, keep pounding your head against that wall and insist other Christians do it with you. Don't let logic, common sense and scripture stand in your way...

Perhaps you missed the part where I back up my spiritual propositions with Scripture hyperlinks in my posts so everyone can read the truth for themselves? Yes, I'm sure you did.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Its been Pharisees since the very beginning that have been against Grace.

You can call it "hyper" grace because that seems easier for you to condemn it. But Pharisees have been condemning Grace since the beginning. That's why they are Pharisees, and that's why they get to work at the Law. That's their curse for rejecting Grace.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Antinomianists of today are no different than the Pharisees of Scripture: both claim the promises of God's favor but reject the condition upon which they are to be claimed: total surrender of the heart.

Antinomianists use verses which condemn the specific heresy of attempting to use obedience as a means to obtain salvation, as blanket condemnation for the general, much broader idea of "reasonable service" we are to render to God in the keeping of His commandments, and cling desperately to the false idea that we may by dead faith obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.