Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

justbyfaith · Nov 27, 2021

The whole of the Bible actually has an opposite message to that.

While, if we have been saved, it will result in our keeping of the commandments, our salvation is not dependent on our law-keeping to save us.

That is an alternate method of being justified than being forgiven through the blood of Jesus.

Those who are of the law (who seek to be justified by it) are under a curse...

They must keep the whole law perfectly from conception into eternity or they will not enter in to the kingdom (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48)...if they mess up after having lived a perfect life and been judged, that one mess-up in eternity will result in them being immediately cast out of heaven.

TMS · Nov 27, 2021

i Admit that it is faith in Christs perfect life that we are able to be called righteous.
We have all sinned and that means that keeping the law to be saved is useless.
unless we humble our self and ask for Gods gift we will have no salvation.

Repentance is important. To repent of a law that does not exist would be stupid. And we are told that true love for God results in keeping His commandments.

If sin is still present today what law is identifying the sin? If real love is the centre of Gods laws, Why don't you love God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself.

First 4 of the 10 commandments are about loving God first. The next 6 commandments are about loving your neighbour as yourself.

This principle of love has not changed.

TMS · Nov 27, 2021

There is no fault in the 10 commandments, They are Holy and Good. Because God Himself gave them they must be without fault.

Other laws (ceremonial laws) were given because of sin and were a perfect example of what Jesus would come and achieve but they were only added because of sin.
there is a difference. no one has shown me from the bible that these laws are the same and that they were all nailed to the cross.

If the law could change and be removed, Christ did not need to die.

studentoftheword · Nov 27, 2021

TMS -----I say you are so right when you say there is no fault in the 10 commandments ---they are perfect and Holy ---

It is man that is tainted and couldn't keep the laws -----and Jesus made it even harder for people to Keep the laws as he said -----this ---Jesus is speaking here

MATTHEW 5:28
KJ21
But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

AMP
but I say to you that everyone who [so much as] looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I say
So one of the Commands is not to steal ----so if your in a store and say ---OH I like that and you lust after it in your heart --you have broken that command in your heart ---

I say ---
So one of the commands is not to lie ----

So TMS ever told a lie after you have become a Christian ----and we know all people have told lies ---or did you ever think about telling a lie ---if so then you have broken that command -----

So if you think your all that that you can keep the 10 commandments ==then I say your saying you don't need a Saviour --cause the commands you can keep all by your self -----

So good luck with your easy command keeping ----

Hebrews 8:7-9

New International Version

Hebrews 8:7-9

New International Version

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[a]:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[a]:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors

Evmur · Nov 27, 2021

BroTan said:

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

He had kept the commandments from his youth up but failed to enter the kingdom.

TMS · Nov 27, 2021

studentoftheword said:

i hope i didn't imply that i find it easy to keep the law....
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. all have sinned and deserve eternal death.
Every descendent of Adam needs Jesus 100% and the fight against the flesh is not easy it is the hardest fight anyone will ever have to fight. Paul in Romans
om 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

i relate to Pauls experience and thank God for Jesus

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Jesus is the solution 100%

We can't do it with out Him. But no one has shown me that the law is dead, thrown out, made void.

justbyfaith · Nov 27, 2021

TMS said:

When "the law" is spoken of in holy scripture, it is speaking of that by which we have the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20)...which is every moral tenet in the Old and New Testaments.

For sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)...

And therefore "the law" in holy scripture, is that which we might transgress in order to commit sin.

studentoftheword · Nov 27, 2021

TMS-----you said ------
But no one has shown me that the law is dead, thrown out, made void.

Hebrews 8:12-13
The Passion Translation
12 For I will demonstrate my mercy to them
and will forgive[a] their evil deeds,
and never remember again their sins.”
13 This proves that by establishing this new covenant the first is now obsolete, ready to expire, and about to disappear

Romans 7:5-6
Common English Bible
5 When we were self-centered, the sinful passions aroused through the Law were at work in all the parts of our body, so that we bore fruit for death.

6 But now we have been released from the Law. We have died with respect to the thing that controlled us, so that we can be slaves in the new life under the Spirit, not in the old life under the written Law.

ewq1938 · Nov 27, 2021

studentoftheword said:

The KJV is clearer:

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

studentoftheword · Nov 28, 2021

TMS -----you have to understand that you can't mix the law with Grace -----

There is no faith in keeping the law ----the letter of the law is dead in faith ------the letter of the law Kills ----Grace gives life

2 Corinthians 3:4-6

New International Version

4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

God does not want mixture -----you can't mix the Mosaic Laws with Grace ----as one relies on obedience and the other relies on Faith in Jesus ----

Mark 2:22

Context
The Patches and the Wineskins

21 No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the new piece will pull away from the old, and a worse tear will result.

22 And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins.”

Berean Study Bible

We Christians have to eventually choose what side we want to be on ---The law side or the faith in Jesus side-----God;s calls Christians who are keeping both ---Luke warm Christians and God says --he will spue you out of His mouth ---

Revelation 3:16

Berean Study Bible

Context
To the Church in Laodicea
…15I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other!

16 So because you are lukewarm— neither hot nor cold— I am about to vomit you out of My mouth!

BroTan · Nov 28, 2021

Evmur said:

Let's go back into Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Notice the young man says "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" The young man didn’t need to ask this question to Jesus, because he was already in a good place with the Lord. This is where the story gets interesting, because if you read the full story which we have to do, to get full understanding. We will see that the commandments Jesus mention wasn't the young man problem, it was something else.

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

So Jesus says if thou be perfect, that means the young was really close to being perfect, but the young had great riches that he couldn't let go, and that goes with what Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. This was very hard for the young man to do. So let's recap the story a little, the young man kept the commandments from his youth up, all most perfect, except one thing Jesus ask him to do, and that's sell all his possession and come follow him.

So let's continue in Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

justbyfaith · Nov 28, 2021

studentoftheword said:

Under the New Covenant, the law is written on the hearts and minds of believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

As concerning obedience, we are under the law to Christ, as was Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 9:21).

While as concerning condemnation, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

For we have been forgiven of all of our sins (Romans 4:7-8).

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1a).

However, those who are in Christ Jesus are defined by the fact that we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1b, Romans 8:4).

If we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

I would say therefore that there will be a practical holiness, even according to the law, in the lives of those who have been redeemed from all iniquity (Titus 2:14) through faith in Christ.

For sin / iniquity is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).

Those who are in Christ have the love of the Lord shed abroad in their hearts via the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5).

This love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) and is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).

It is not that we look to a set of do's and don'ts and seek to be obedient to them.

It is that, as we walk in the love of Jesus Christ, those do' and don'ts get fulfilled in us because as we walk in love, we are not going to violate any of them.

BroTan · Nov 28, 2021

justbyfaith said:

God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

Thats right Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You can't go around picking verses out the Bible that lines up with your doctrine. Rightly dividing the true starts from Genesis to Revelation.

Paul said in (1Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means. Now, Ask youself are keeping in memory...are you keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (saturday), like Paul, Jesus, the apostles and prophets kept. Do you keep the Lord's High and Holy days, Paul, Jesus, the apostles and prophets kept. Do you understand what they all about. Just because a person have a Bible and able to quote out of it, does not mean you are in line with Jesus and the apostles and prophets. Paul said in Romans 2: 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified

BroTan · Nov 28, 2021

justbyfaith said:

Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law.
Let's go to James 5: 13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

But now Paul says in Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

BroTan · Nov 28, 2021

justbyfaith said:

I see you run to Paul writing after reading clear words from Jesus. Let's take a look at Romans 10: 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. This is a fact, we have to seek God, read our Bibles from Genesis to Revelation and pray for understanding, so we won’t establish our own righteousness.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

This is true as well, but the question is what Law is Paul talking about? Paul talking about the animal sacrificial law, because when Christ died on the cross the vail rip from top to bottom. The vail was use to sprinkle the blood on (see...

Let's take a look in Leviticus 4 Ch...Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law. Watch how they worked together.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.

Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)

When the common people sinned through ignorance and it came to their knowledge, what did they have to do? They brought an offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for their sin which they had committed, then the priest would offer the animal to the Lord. Think about this for a moment. If an animal was killed for a person that committed sin, what will happen to us today if we a trespass against the Lord? We will find that out later. Now we see how the sacrificial law was used when a person broke a commandment unintentionally.

Let's go take a look in Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Back to Romans 10: 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

I notice people who do away with commandments hardly quote this verse, because this verse Paul say the righteousness which is of the law, which is the 10 Commandments, statues and Judgements.

Two different laws Paul talks about!

BroTan · Nov 28, 2021

justbyfaith said:

Let's go to the Book of I Timothy chapter one and see if Paul kills the Lords commandments.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: (I Timothy 1:5)

What does he mean the end of the commandment is charity? What is charity? It means love fore mankind correct? Now take a look at these verses in the Book of Romans.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10)

Take heed to what Paul says, "love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love (which is charity) is the fulfilling of the law. Paul says, "If you LOVE your neighbor you will not, commit adultery, kill, steal, bear false witness nor covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Once again Paul is quoting from the books Moses! As a matter of fact Paul was quoting the Lord God, remember the Lord gave the Laws to Moses.

Take a look. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Exodus 20:13-17)

What do we see here? We see Paul is inline with the rest of the Bible. He is not trying to do away with the Lords commandments. It is the false prophets that do not read the entire book from Genesis to Revelation! They are trying to do away with the Lord's laws. Paul was well aware that the law was to be kept. This include the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week! So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church.

Pay close attention to what the Chief Apostles says about Paul's writings.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. (II Peter 3:14-17)

Pay very close attention to what Peter says, "in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." If we are not familiar with the whole Bible, we will never get any understanding of the Word of God. My advice to those that are seeking the Lord, read the entire Bible, don't start at the Book of Acts and stop at the Book of Hebrews. Read from the beginning to the end, meaning from Genesis to Revelation.

BroTan · Nov 28, 2021

justbyfaith said:

Paul says in Hebrews 8: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, When I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; Because they continued not in my covenant, And I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And write them in their hearts: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest.

So let's take a look at some of the laws that God writes in our hearts...Let's go to Deuteronomy 5: 6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: 9 thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, 10 and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
11Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. 16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 17 Thou shalt not kill. 18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery. 19 Neither shalt thou steal. 20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (I Timothy 1:6-8)

Notice what Paul says, "we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully. Knowing this that the law is not made for a righteous man." Why isn't the law for the righteous? If we are righteous we are keeping the law.

Remember the Biblical definition of sin is; whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4) So the law is for whom? For the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine. Looks like Paul is preaching "keep the law" like the rest of the Lord's disciples. The people that teach against the Lord's commandments teach traditions of men.

justbyfaith · Nov 28, 2021

@BroTan, all I can say to you is that you need to study the writings of Paul so that you may understand them as he intended for them to be understood.

You can indeed wrest his writings to your own destruction. An example of this is how you identify the law that he speaks of as being only the law about animal sacrifices when he is referring to the whole law.

You cannot be justified by keeping the law.

You can only be justified through faith in the blood of Christ.

If you have been justified through faith in the blood of Christ, there is also a sanctification that will take place; also through His blood (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7) that will enable you to obey the Lord by walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit: so the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in you (Romans 8:4).

There is no law that will condemn you if you bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

But if you are seeking to be justified by the law, it is clear that you are walking after the flesh; and therefore, the fact that you do not keep the law perfectly from conception into eternity will be your condemnation. Because that is what is required of those who are of the law (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48). You are under a curse if you think that you are saved through your own law-keeping, works, or personal merits. You are required to obey the whole law perfectly from conception into eternity to be able to enter in that way (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

You can indeed wrest these scriptures of Paul to your own destruction (while only one of them in the list was written by Paul).

So, I would encourage you to study these scriptures carefully to see what Paul really meant by them as he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write them; and what the Holy Spirit means by them.

A homework project for you might be for you to seek what the Holy Spirit meant when Paul wrote Galatians 2:16 under His inspiration.

Because again, you may be able to wrest those scriptures to your own destruction. And, therefore, it is expedient for you to ask the Holy Ghost what He means by these scriptures and to abide in the understanding He gives you.

Do you have the guts to honestly ask Him what He means by them, is the question.

Because I am coming to you from the perspective of knowing what He means by them and what I have been telling you is His interpretation.

It is my prayer every night; and also every time before I get on the computer; that every word that comes off of my keyboard might be from the Holy Ghost.

Evmur · Nov 28, 2021

BroTan said:

Let's go back into Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Notice the young man says "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" The young man didn’t need to ask this question to Jesus, because he was already in a good place with the Lord. This is where the story gets interesting, because if you read the full story which we have to do, to get full understanding. We will see that the commandments Jesus mention wasn't the young man problem, it was something else.

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

So Jesus says if thou be perfect, that means the young was really close to being perfect, but the young had great riches that he couldn't let go, and that goes with what Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. This was very hard for the young man to do. So let's recap the story a little, the young man kept the commandments from his youth up, all most perfect, except one thing Jesus ask him to do, and that's sell all his possession and come follow him.

So let's continue in Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

He went away sorrowful. "verily I say unto you that a rich man shall hardly enter the kingdom of heaven ...."

TMS · Nov 28, 2021

studentoftheword said:

The law of liberty that Jesus listed and James and Paul listed (the 10 commandments) can be mixed with grace. When you say law can not be mixed with grace you have twisted things....

Why don't you steal from your neighbours? why don't you kill the people around you?

Do you need to practice lawlessness in order for grace to be given? do you need to throw away the law in order for grace to be shown?

If i am caught speeding (breaking the law), and the police officer gives me a ticket that is the justice of the law. If the police officer shows mercy and doesn't give a fine or if someone else pays my fine for me that would be grace.

Jesus our lord sees that we are in debt (a law that reveals sin) and pays every debt to the full (grace). Justice and mercy meet at the cross. The law and grace can not be separated or you have no need of grace. We need grace because we do not and can not obey the perfect law of love. but that does not give us an excuse to disobey the law on purpose.

We do not make void the law because of grace. thanks to grace we establish the law.

Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member