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This is the difference between empiricism, logic, and faith. Biblical faith as no connection to either logic or empiricism. The only answers I can offer are those of scripture but since you do not regard the arguments of the Bible as valid I do not know what else I can provide. All I can say is that death will be the ultimate and irreversible proof. If I am wrong, I have nothing to loose. If you are wrong, you loose everything.
When Almighty God demonstrates love and mercy, He does it very well.
When Almighty God demonstrates strict justice and holy anger, He does it very well.
I read the Bible and it looks like God will be glorified in both types of demonstrations throughout eternity. My hope is to be thanking God for a mercy and a pardon that I didn't necessarily deserve but will gladly receive.
God will be glorified in both types of demonstrations.
When Almighty God demonstrates strict justice and holy anger, He does it very well.
I read the Bible and it looks like God will be glorified in both types of demonstrations throughout eternity. My hope is to be thanking God for a mercy and a pardon that I didn't necessarily deserve but will gladly receive.
God will be glorified in both types of demonstrations.
K
I believe I read in the bible that every creature knows the Creator. And that those without law are a law unto themselves- meaning that we all have a natural sense of right and wrong, of good and evil. Romans 1:20 " 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made,[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] so that people are without excuse." If you look at a watch it is logical to assume there is a watchmaker. If you look at creation it is logical to assume there is a creator. The odds of putting all the parts of a watch in a bag, and shaking it, and have it become a complete functioning watch, are better odds than a bang causing life. And even if it could- who or what created the things that banged, and what created them? Simply- intelligence does not come from nonintelligence, and life does not come from nonlife. And yes, I also believe that a desperate situation might shake the denial out of one's heart. [/FONT]
The watchmaker came from somewhere too.. but you won't apply that to the creator of creation, you'll make a special exception.
Intelligence doesn't come from non intelligence, again where did your God come from?
You say everything needs a beginning but you won't apply your own argument to God, you'll say he didn't have a beginning.
So either you follow the logic of your own argument and say that God also had to have a creator (after all you say everything needs one).
Or you drop your argument because by saying God is eternal you are invalidating your own case because then your saying that NOT everything needs a creator.
Pick one, and stick to it.
Intelligence doesn't come from non intelligence, again where did your God come from?
You say everything needs a beginning but you won't apply your own argument to God, you'll say he didn't have a beginning.
So either you follow the logic of your own argument and say that God also had to have a creator (after all you say everything needs one).
Or you drop your argument because by saying God is eternal you are invalidating your own case because then your saying that NOT everything needs a creator.
Pick one, and stick to it.
Hi Oldhermit, I still need to read that prophecy in Daniel you put me on to, but I will get to it.
One problem I have is that for prophecy to count as direct evidence of God one must first study it. We can’t really expect non-Christians to do this. So what direct evidence is there for God’s existence? If God is going to punish those who don’t believe specific things about him then surely, to be fair, he must supply direct evidence that would convince every person – Jew, Muslim, Hindu, animist, atheist, and so on, that he is the real McCoy. What is that evidence that simply cannot be missed that would turn every reasonable person in the world into a believing Christian? I don’t think any such evidence exists. I’ve looked for it.
Also, it is a fact that there are many competing Christian groups – perhaps hundreds, though some say thousands. If Christians themselves cannot agree then how poor must the evidence be?
Faith cannot be use as an argument to bring non-Christians on board because you can’t expect non-Christians to have faith in a deity that you can’t show them. Evidence, good evidence, evidence that no reasonable person can dismiss is crucial here. Where is it? What is it?
One problem I have is that for prophecy to count as direct evidence of God one must first study it. We can’t really expect non-Christians to do this. So what direct evidence is there for God’s existence? If God is going to punish those who don’t believe specific things about him then surely, to be fair, he must supply direct evidence that would convince every person – Jew, Muslim, Hindu, animist, atheist, and so on, that he is the real McCoy. What is that evidence that simply cannot be missed that would turn every reasonable person in the world into a believing Christian? I don’t think any such evidence exists. I’ve looked for it.
Also, it is a fact that there are many competing Christian groups – perhaps hundreds, though some say thousands. If Christians themselves cannot agree then how poor must the evidence be?
Faith cannot be use as an argument to bring non-Christians on board because you can’t expect non-Christians to have faith in a deity that you can’t show them. Evidence, good evidence, evidence that no reasonable person can dismiss is crucial here. Where is it? What is it?
If you are looking for indisputable evidence in the existence of God before you will believe then you will never believe. Faith comes by hearing the word of God, not by empirical evidences. This was the whole reason God placed the tree of knowledge in the garden. Man had to make a choice whether to obey a God whom he could not see or draw conclusions about his own relationship in the natural world based on the things he could see. We both know the result of that scenario. Faith that requires evidence is not faith. Any fool can believe what he sees. This is why the righteous live by faith, not evidences.
Hi Cycel
We humans are so flawed in so many ways Cycel and constantly seem to misrepresent God to others, but let me tell you a little bit of what happened this past Sabbath over in Orlando. I asked tourist to find us a Seventh Day Adventist church to attend close to the resort we were staying at and so we set out to find this church. We missed it the first pass but turned around and the address we had instead of being the SDA church was a Temple instead. Tourist was apologizing that we ended up at the wrong place and I said this is not a mistake God wants us to be here so we are going in.
We did go in there was a lot of deities up front and one older gentleman sitting on a pew that lined the outer edges of the room. I got about 10 feet inside and noticed he did not have on any shoes, so I asked him about shoes and he said leave off outside the door to which we both complied and came back in barefoot. I went up to him and asked him if this was an SDA church to which he replied no. Then I asked him if there was a speaker and no was the answer. So he said your pray before the statues and I asked if we then meditated and he said yes. So that is what tourist and JesusLives did as we went and knelt down before all these beautiful statues and said a prayer each not to these dead statues but to the living God in heaven.
We then went and sat on one of the pews for a few minutes and I thought about why we were there and I was prompted to give a donation to this man for this temple and I had Christian pamphlets about Jesus. So before we were ready to leave I went over to this older man and asked where to leave the donation and gave him the pamphlets. He graciously accepted both and said come a gift for you. So tourist and I went and drank a small amount of liquid which tasted like green tea out of our hands and then he gave us each an apple and some sweet mix of something we don't know what it was but had some raisins and nuts and then we were on our way.
We walked into a Temple like a couple of bulls in a china shop, but this man was kind and helped us through a church service I will never forget even though a different religion that we decided was probably a Hindu Temple. He was gracious to us both and explained what we needed to do and for a few minutes we still worshiped God in a different way. As we left I saw that he was looking at the Christian material that I had left with him. We may not know until heaven the result of our mistaken visit, but I believe there are no mistakes where God is concerned and He wanted that man to have that information. So instead of a regular church service I believe Tourist and I were on a mission trip and even though a totally different religion we all got along just fine and worshiped together with no fighting or argument just like it should be done in love. Love true love is where the answer lies. We should all show it to each other much more than we do.
I am still praying for you and your family Cycel... I won't stop until you get to know God....Blessings to you Darlene/JesusLives
We humans are so flawed in so many ways Cycel and constantly seem to misrepresent God to others, but let me tell you a little bit of what happened this past Sabbath over in Orlando. I asked tourist to find us a Seventh Day Adventist church to attend close to the resort we were staying at and so we set out to find this church. We missed it the first pass but turned around and the address we had instead of being the SDA church was a Temple instead. Tourist was apologizing that we ended up at the wrong place and I said this is not a mistake God wants us to be here so we are going in.
We did go in there was a lot of deities up front and one older gentleman sitting on a pew that lined the outer edges of the room. I got about 10 feet inside and noticed he did not have on any shoes, so I asked him about shoes and he said leave off outside the door to which we both complied and came back in barefoot. I went up to him and asked him if this was an SDA church to which he replied no. Then I asked him if there was a speaker and no was the answer. So he said your pray before the statues and I asked if we then meditated and he said yes. So that is what tourist and JesusLives did as we went and knelt down before all these beautiful statues and said a prayer each not to these dead statues but to the living God in heaven.
We then went and sat on one of the pews for a few minutes and I thought about why we were there and I was prompted to give a donation to this man for this temple and I had Christian pamphlets about Jesus. So before we were ready to leave I went over to this older man and asked where to leave the donation and gave him the pamphlets. He graciously accepted both and said come a gift for you. So tourist and I went and drank a small amount of liquid which tasted like green tea out of our hands and then he gave us each an apple and some sweet mix of something we don't know what it was but had some raisins and nuts and then we were on our way.
We walked into a Temple like a couple of bulls in a china shop, but this man was kind and helped us through a church service I will never forget even though a different religion that we decided was probably a Hindu Temple. He was gracious to us both and explained what we needed to do and for a few minutes we still worshiped God in a different way. As we left I saw that he was looking at the Christian material that I had left with him. We may not know until heaven the result of our mistaken visit, but I believe there are no mistakes where God is concerned and He wanted that man to have that information. So instead of a regular church service I believe Tourist and I were on a mission trip and even though a totally different religion we all got along just fine and worshiped together with no fighting or argument just like it should be done in love. Love true love is where the answer lies. We should all show it to each other much more than we do.
I am still praying for you and your family Cycel... I won't stop until you get to know God....Blessings to you Darlene/JesusLives
Of course it's possible. So are a million other possible causes too.
There are a million explanations. Anything from a magic man in the sky, to aliens, Or we may simply just be bacteria on some huge creature's food. Every single explanation may sound just as absurd or just as plausible as the next... But they all have the same amounts of evidence... None.
There are a million explanations. Anything from a magic man in the sky, to aliens, Or we may simply just be bacteria on some huge creature's food. Every single explanation may sound just as absurd or just as plausible as the next... But they all have the same amounts of evidence... None.