Is there a doctrinal issue if you conflate what is from God, and what is from the devil?

[Ariel82]

Just as Good allowed Satan to come against Satan, he may very well allow Satan to come against you. I would go as far as to say unless God allowed it can not happen to the Christian. If you notice something that Jesus said to Peter, Satan has asked to sift you, but I have prayed for you.

As far as God forcing a person to do something, I think Jonah and the whale are examples of how far God will go to have his do his will.

Paul on the road to Damascus is another example.

God will apply the appropriate level of pressure to get you to move if it's what is required.

We must understand that we are the property of God. All are his property, we have submitted to his rule and ownership, and thus as the servant who wishes to stay after 7 years and his ear is pierced, we do his bidding forever. If we fail he has the right, not only as soveriegn God, but by our own confession to chastize us as he sees fit. So don't think he can't or won't use force. It's his to do and justly so.

The story of Queen Esther comes to mind when discussing God forcing people to do His will.

God doesn't seek slaves. He seeks adopted born again children who obey out of love and not fear.

 

[Ariel82]

I disagree a little here saint for Jesus was led by the spirit into the wilderness. The tempting for Christ to worship Satan was to avoid the cross. Notice he said (Satan) he will give the kingdoms and all that is in them . Praise God the Ramson was paid according
To the word of God.

God chose the battefield, and timing Jesus fought the battle against the enemy using the same weapons God has given all his adopted children: spiritual armor, the prayer, the Holy Spirit sword of Truth (which teaches us the hidden truths in the bible parables and promises of God to His chkdren and prophecies of the Messiah.

When God allows us to be tested, he will stack the deck in our favor by choosing the place and time and placing people and angels to help us in our times of troubles.

We are not promised no suffering, just that God will always walk with us no matter what.

 

[Ariel82]

Our suffering us not caused by God but by humanities sinful nature. Humankind has caused an increase of cancer by surrounding itself with plastic (made from oil which is really old dead living material) and other pollution's.

The flu lives in pigs whenits not flu season, which the Bible says not to eat yet how many listen?

 

[Quantrill]

No. I don't think satan knew Jesus wouldn't fail. Although satan knows who Jesus is, he still knew Him to be a man. He may have thought, after seeing how weak humans are, that the temptations he offered Christ, might have been sufficient, since He is still a human.

I also don't believe satan wanted Jesus murdered. He knows the Word. He, at least, knew the Messiah had to die. He did NOT want humanity redeemed.

We see this VERY directly when Jesus addresses satan point blank while satan whispered in Peter's ear in this passage:

Matthew 16:
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, AND BE KILLED, and be raised the third day.

22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, [i]“Far be it from You, LORD; this shall NOT happen to You!”

23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are [j]an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Even at the Cross satan, and the "bulls of Bashan" (read that demons) had the crowd, and the wicked crucified criminal, at Jesus's most vulnerable moment, tempt Him to come down from the Cross.

It could be that satan really hoped to get Christ to sin. My own opinion is that he knew he couldn't. But my point was that the Holy Spirit set this up. Not satan. And what would be the purpose the temptation? To show and reveal the Person of Christ, that He as a Man will take back what Adam gave away.

I have thought about what satan was wanting during the time of Christ's crucifixion. Was he trying to have Him crucified or was he trying to stop Him from being crucified? And though he can quote Scripture, I am not sure as to how much he knows, especially then when not all of Scripture was yet written. satan is not omnipotent and cant read our hearts and minds. And he certainly doesn't always know what God is up to. But he observes.

(Matt. 16:22) is certainly good evidence for satan trying to stop Christ from being crucified. But my question is, if that were so, then why did satan lead Judas to betray Christ over to the Pharisees and have him killed? For satan fully indwelt Judas that night. (John 13:27-28)

Quantrill

 

[Deade]

It could be that satan really hoped to get Christ to sin. My own opinion is that he knew he couldn't. But my point was that the Holy Spirit set this up. Not satan. And what would be the purpose the temptation? To show and reveal the Person of Christ, that He as a Man will take back what Adam gave away.

I have thought about what satan was wanting during the time of Christ's crucifixion. Was he trying to have Him crucified or was he trying to stop Him from being crucified? And though he can quote Scripture, I am not sure as to how much he knows, especially then when not all of Scripture was yet written. satan is not omnipotent and cant read our hearts and minds. And he certainly doesn't always know what God is up to. But he observes.

(Matt. 16:22) is certainly good evidence for satan trying to stop Christ from being crucified. But my question is, if that were so, then why did satan lead Judas to betray Christ over to the Pharisees and have him killed? For satan fully indwelt Judas that night. (John 13:27-28)

Quantrill

Who knows what God put into Satan's mind. He created Satan, do you not think He can manipulate him. Just as Satan has become a master at manipulating unregenerate man, our Father is the master manipulator.

 

[Quantrill]

Who knows what God put into Satan's mind. He created Satan, do you not think He can manipulate him. Just as Satan has become a master at manipulating unregenerate man, our Father is the master manipulator.

I would never say that.

Quantrill

 

[Nehemiah6]

God does test, sanctify, and chastise, but why through certain beliefs (doctrines) could one, essentially, confuse God for the devil? How is that even possible?

The book of Job should give you your answer. It shows that God allows Satan to do some terrible things to His saints. But it does not confuse God with the devil.

 

[JaumeJ]

From the Word of God we are taught tht Sata, in his own delusion, believe he could raise his own throne above tht of our Father.

Later in Revelation we are taught that Satan became drunk on the blood of the saints and the prophets to the point of believing he could defeat God.

When Sata tried to tempt Jesus Christ, it was his ownegotistical idea that he could tempt the Only Begotten Son of our Father...…..We, by our own training in the Holy Spirit should all know this and trust it is true by faith, blessed be our Savior, amen.

 

[LPT]

Somethings in the bible can have a complex meaning indeed.

Isaiah 45
6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there isnone beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[Locutus]

It seems to me that within some Christian circles de devil is given powers on par with Deity.

 

[Hevosmies]

It seems to me that within some Christian circles de devil is given powers on par with Deity.

Its got gnostic dualism roots.

You've probably seen the image: Jesus and the devil arm-wrestling. The whole ying and yang thing. Darkness and Light.

Truth is that there is no 50-50 struggle. Jesus has already won the battle.

 

[PennEd]

It could be that satan really hoped to get Christ to sin. My own opinion is that he knew he couldn't. But my point was that the Holy Spirit set this up. Not satan. And what would be the purpose the temptation? To show and reveal the Person of Christ, that He as a Man will take back what Adam gave away.

I have thought about what satan was wanting during the time of Christ's crucifixion. Was he trying to have Him crucified or was he trying to stop Him from being crucified? And though he can quote Scripture, I am not sure as to how much he knows, especially then when not all of Scripture was yet written. satan is not omnipotent and cant read our hearts and minds. And he certainly doesn't always know what God is up to. But he observes.

(Matt. 16:22) is certainly good evidence for satan trying to stop Christ from being crucified. But my question is, if that were so, then why did satan lead Judas to betray Christ over to the Pharisees and have him killed? For satan fully indwelt Judas that night. (John 13:27-28)

Quantrill

You have IMO hit exactly on the dilemma of saying satan didn't want Jesus killed. I'll speculate a bit.

I think Jesus forced the issue. Less than a week earlier He rode into Jerusalem AND ALLOWED the people to shout out Hosannas, and call him Lord:
Matthew 21:9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!”

This not only upset the Pharisees, but likely had satan worried his time was up then, and God would put His Son on David's Throne right then, and cast him into the Hell.

So I think his plan switched, to get Jesus up on that Cross, suffering physically, attacked spiritually, and at that very moment of vulnerability, abandon humanity and break the Word of God by actually coming down from the Cross. THAT was THE last Temptation of Christ.

 

[pottersclay]

God chose the battefield, and timing Jesus fought the battle against the enemy using the same weapons God has given all his adopted children: spiritual armor, the prayer, the Holy Spirit sword of Truth (which teaches us the hidden truths in the bible parables and promises of God to His chkdren and prophecies of the Messiah.

When God allows us to be tested, he will stack the deck in our favor by choosing the place and time and placing people and angels to help us in our times of troubles.

We are not promised no suffering, just that God will always walk with us no matter what.

First you said God did not will it but allowed it.......now you say God chose the battle field.....which is it.??

Not picking on you saint but the first you said God did not will but allowed it how do you come to that conclusion???

 

[pottersclay]

You have IMO hit exactly on the dilemma of saying satan didn't want Jesus killed. I'll speculate a bit.

I think Jesus forced the issue. Less than a week earlier He rode into Jerusalem AND ALLOWED the people to shout out Hosannas, and call him Lord:
Matthew 21:9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!”

This not only upset the Pharisees, but likely had satan worried his time was up then, and God would put His Son on David's Throne right then, and cast him into the Hell.

So I think his plan switched, to get Jesus up on that Cross, suffering physically, attacked spiritually, and at that very moment of vulnerability, abandon humanity and break the Word of God by actually coming down from the Cross. THAT was THE last Temptation of Christ.

Oh I so agree brother....😃😃

 

[Quantrill]

You have IMO hit exactly on the dilemma of saying satan didn't want Jesus killed. I'll speculate a bit.

I think Jesus forced the issue. Less than a week earlier He rode into Jerusalem AND ALLOWED the people to shout out Hosannas, and call him Lord:
Matthew 21:9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!”

This not only upset the Pharisees, but likely had satan worried his time was up then, and God would put His Son on David's Throne right then, and cast him into the Hell.

So I think his plan switched, to get Jesus up on that Cross, suffering physically, attacked spiritually, and at that very moment of vulnerability, abandon humanity and break the Word of God by actually coming down from the Cross. THAT was THE last Temptation of Christ.

You make a very good argument. I was thinking in line with the switching of positions by satan, but it had to do with more of Christ coming as King of Israel offering the Kingdom, but that later would change as Israel rejected Christ as her King and so may have changed satan's plans.

Appreciate your thinking on this.

Quantrill

 

[pottersclay]

Satan has a 99.99% success rate in deceiving causing sin upon a person.

God has a 1% success rate in keeping one sinless yet God wins.....some odds huh? I like that.😋😋😋

 

[Locutus]

When and where did Jesus offer the Jews the kingdom?

 

[Deade]

You have IMO hit exactly on the dilemma of saying satan didn't want Jesus killed. I'll speculate a bit.

I think Jesus forced the issue. Less than a week earlier He rode into Jerusalem AND ALLOWED the people to shout out Hosannas, and call him Lord:
Matthew 21:9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!”

This not only upset the Pharisees, but likely had satan worried his time was up then, and God would put His Son on David's Throne right then, and cast him into the Hell.

So I think his plan switched, to get Jesus up on that Cross, suffering physically, attacked spiritually, and at that very moment of vulnerability, abandon humanity and break the Word of God by actually coming down from the Cross. THAT was THE last Temptation of Christ.

I agree, in other words God manipulated Satan to achieve His own ends.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I agree, in other words God manipulated Satan to achieve His own ends.

I do not see God using manipulation in scripture

manipulation is actually considered as a negative...people manipulate all the time to get what they want and some do it more than others and with some, it is a work to behold

I think people reveal who they are and God knows who we are and what we will do

He does not cause evil behavior nor does He cause people to manipulate

satan, the deceiver, does what he does because that is who he is

can and does God use evil for His own ends? sure He does....Joseph even said so to his brothers. they meant what they did for evil but God meant it (allowed it for His own ends, redeemed it if you will) for good

God does not have a dual nature

 

[Deade]

I do not see God using manipulation in scripture

manipulation is actually considered as a negative...people manipulate all the time to get what they want and some do it more than others and with some, it is a work to behold

I think people reveal who they are and God knows who we are and what we will do

He does not cause evil behavior nor does He cause people to manipulate

satan, the deceiver, does what he does because that is who he is

can and does God use evil for His own ends? sure He does....Joseph even said so to his brothers. they meant what they did for evil but God meant it (allowed it for His own ends, redeemed it if you will) for good

God does not have a dual nature

View it as you like. God can use anything He likes. Go pick on PennEd, he is the one that suggested it.