Is there a doctrinal issue if you conflate what is from God, and what is from the devil?

[BenFTW]

The topic of testing and temptation is usually seen in terms of proving (testing) and resisting (temptation). Temptation not coming from God, as scripture says to let no man say that he is tempted of God. However, often in the discussion of God testing, testing can take a dark and dare I say, twisted turn. People will attribute to God awful and terrible things, or any form of misfortune as part of His chastisement and process of sanctification. I find this bothersome, because it somewhat pits God against His children.

If the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy how do I see a situation that might mirror these intentions and say that it is of God? If God is for me and not against me, why then would He curse me, not bless me, permit misfortune, and so on? How is it possible to conflate darkness with light?

God does test, sanctify, and chastise, but why through certain beliefs (doctrines) could one, essentially, confuse God for the devil? How is that even possible?

 

[pottersclay]

In the tempting there is always a means of escape. The 3 categorys Satan will attack are lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, the pride of life.
Both Eve and Jesus were tempted in these things.

The testing of God is to encourage and strengthen, the story of Joseph in the old testament is a great story to study. He was both tested and tempted continually. Being molded by the Lord. Some might pick job but that event was a bit different imo.

How do we define which is which? Are we motivated by the spirit or drawn away by fleshly desire?

 

[BenFTW]

In the tempting there is always a means of escape. The 3 categorys Satan will attack are lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, the pride of life.
Both Eve and Jesus were tempted in these things.

The testing of God is to encourage and strengthen, the story of Joseph in the old testament is a great story to study. He was both tested and tempted continually. Being molded by the Lord. Some might pick job but that event was a bit different imo.

How do we define which is which? Are we motivated by the spirit or drawn away by fleshly desire?

Thanks for chiming in Pottersclay, always a pleasure. I've always appreciated your genuine concern for the Body of Christ, and sincerity of interest in the well-being of their (and my) walk.

God bless you.

 

[Quantrill]

The topic of testing and temptation is usually seen in terms of proving (testing) and resisting (temptation). Temptation not coming from God, as scripture says to let no man say that he is tempted of God. However, often in the discussion of God testing, testing can take a dark and dare I say, twisted turn. People will attribute to God awful and terrible things, or any form of misfortune as part of His chastisement and process of sanctification. I find this bothersome, because it somewhat pits God against His children.

If the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy how do I see a situation that might mirror these intentions and say that it is of God? If God is for me and not against me, why then would He curse me, not bless me, permit misfortune, and so on? How is it possible to conflate darkness with light?

God does test, sanctify, and chastise, but why through certain beliefs (doctrines) could one, essentially, confuse God for the devil? How is that even possible?

You can trace this problem all the way back to the garden. Who is testing me, God or satan? Who put the tree of knowledge of good and evil there in the first place? Who allowed the serpent in the garden?

Our whole experience is one directed by God. Job and Joseph have already been mentioned and are proof that God is behind it all. That doesn't mean God is evil, for God is doing the good. That doesn't mean satan is good, for he is doing it for evil.

Another example is Peter. (Luke 22:31-32) "And the Lord said, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fall not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. "

If you're Peter, these are not the words you want to hear. You would rather hear Christ say, no, you cannot have him. But He didn't.

Quantrill

 

[Ariel82]

The topic of testing and temptation is usually seen in terms of proving (testing) and resisting (temptation). Temptation not coming from God, as scripture says to let no man say that he is tempted of God. However, often in the discussion of God testing, testing can take a dark and dare I say, twisted turn. People will attribute to God awful and terrible things, or any form of misfortune as part of His chastisement and process of sanctification. I find this bothersome, because it somewhat pits God against His children.

If the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy how do I see a situation that might mirror these intentions and say that it is of God? If God is for me and not against me, why then would He curse me, not bless me, permit misfortune, and so on? How is it possible to conflate darkness with light?

God does test, sanctify, and chastise, but why through certain beliefs (doctrines) could one, essentially, confuse God for the devil? How is that even possible?

God allows Satan to do what he wanted to do all along: try and destroy God's chidren, during times of our testing.

Satan sees this as a weekends of God. Just as Satan thought he won when he had humans kill Jesus. Yet we know Jesus went and suffered and died for us willingly because He knew the bigger picture of ractifyinh the New covenant by His blood. Jesus ressurection ended Satan's celebration.

Did God will Satan to tempt Jesus in the desert?

No but He allowed it.

If God allows a test, it's because He has faith we can past and deal a blow against the kingdom of darkness. By passing the test, we may even win back a few souls back to our Heavenly Father because they not only hear of our faith in God, they also see how God carries us through troubles as nothing in this world can substain us.

 

[Quantrill]

God allows Satan to do what he wanted to do all along: try and destroy God's chidren, during times of our testing.

Satan sees this as a weekends of God. Just as Satan thought he won when he had humans kill Jesus. Yet we know Jesus went and suffered and died for us willingly because He knew the bigger picture of ractifyinh the New covenant by His blood. Jesus ressurection ended Satan's celebration.

Did God will Satan to tempt Jesus in the desert?

No but He allowed it.

If God allows a test, it's because He has faith we can past and deal a blow against the kingdom of darkness. By passing the test, we may even win back a few souls back to our Heavenly Father because they not only hear of our faith in God, they also see how God carries us through troubles as nothing in this world can substain us.

Allowed it? I don't think so. (Matt. 4:1) "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil."

I personally don't think satan wanted any part of this test. he knew Who Jesus was. he knew he had no chance.

Quantrill

 

[JaumeJ]

Your use of the word, allowed, shows wisdom most do not perceive.

Many people believe when God's prophets foretell what events will occur during the development of our experience in this age that God is making man perform but no, He is allowing mankind to act in the way He knew from the beinning they would act.

God does not make man pollute, yet it is written about the latter times that the earth will lie polluted under it inhabitants for the fruit of their doing.

God does not force his creatures to do anything. There are prophesies of God's own actions, but when they do begin all will know it is not man's. God bless you always A.

 

[JaumeJ]

Your use of the word, allowed, shows wisdom most do not perceive.

Many people believe when God's prophets foretell what events will occur during the development of our experience in this age that God is making man perform but no, He is allowing mankind to act in the way He knew from the beinning they would act.

God does not make man pollute, yet it is written about the latter times that the earth will lie polluted under it inhabitants for the fruit of their doing.

God does not force his creatures to do anything. There are prophesies of God's own actions, but when they do begin all will know it is not man's. God bless you always A.

I am truly glad I responded here while the response aboe was being conceived.

 

[Quantrill]

Your use of the word, allowed, shows wisdom most do not perceive.

Many people believe when God's prophets foretell what events will occur during the development of our experience in this age that God is making man perform but no, He is allowing mankind to act in the way He knew from the beinning they would act.

God does not make man pollute, yet it is written about the latter times that the earth will lie polluted under it inhabitants for the fruit of their doing.

God does not force his creatures to do anything. There are prophesies of God's own actions, but when they do begin all will know it is not man's. God bless you always A.

God does not force his creatures to do anything? Think again. Take the apostle Paul's salvation experience. Jesus didn't meet him and ask him to believe. He knocked him to the ground and blinded him forcing from the lips of Paul, "Who art thou Lord?" (Acts 9:5, 15-16)

Translation. I don't know Who you are but you are Lord Whoever You are.

Quantrill

 

[JaumeJ]

God does not force his creatures to do anything? Think again. Take the apostle Paul's salvation experience. Jesus didn't meet him and ask him to believe. He knocked him to the ground and blinded him forcing from the lips of Paul, "Who art thou Lord?" (Acts 9:5, 15-16)

Translation. I don't know Who you are but you are Lord Whoever You are.

Quantrill

You really look to judge others.
My post is on the prophecies not on Paull. If you wish to carry that out further no one is giong into the lake of fire on their own……..

Tryh to understand the posts before making unrelated accusations. You seem to be a bitter believer.. I will pray for you.

 

[Quantrill]

You really look to judge others.
My post is on the prophecies not on Paull. If you wish to carry that out further no one is giong into the lake of fire on their own……..

Tryh to understand the posts before making unrelated accusations. You seem to be a bitter believer.. I will pray for you.

I understood your post which is why I said what I did. As I said before, I turn down no prayers.

Quantrill

 

[JaumeJ]

It seems you understand the Word just as you understand what people post. Time will tell.

 

[Quantrill]

It seems you understand the Word just as you understand what people post. Time will tell.

It seems every post now all you have to say is I don't understand. I suggest you contribute something to further along some understanding. Be it yours or mine.

Quantrill

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Just as Good allowed Satan to come against Satan, he may very well allow Satan to come against you. I would go as far as to say unless God allowed it can not happen to the Christian. If you notice something that Jesus said to Peter, Satan has asked to sift you, but I have prayed for you.

As far as God forcing a person to do something, I think Jonah and the whale are examples of how far God will go to have his do his will.

Paul on the road to Damascus is another example.

God will apply the appropriate level of pressure to get you to move if it's what is required.

We must understand that we are the property of God. All are his property, we have submitted to his rule and ownership, and thus as the servant who wishes to stay after 7 years and his ear is pierced, we do his bidding forever. If we fail he has the right, not only as soveriegn God, but by our own confession to chastize us as he sees fit. So don't think he can't or won't use force. It's his to do and justly so.

 

[JaumeJ]

My post on God giving prophecies on what mankind will do without consulting Him is just that, God does not make mankind act in the manner he does, He simply knows in advance,

Now this has no bearing on what Johan was given to dok Balaam , or any in the Word...…….this deals with mankind's actions without consulting kGod……..God knows what mkankind willdo, and He tells us in advance. Reread my post...……..do not twist things about, this is not the work of a child of God it is the works of the enemy.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If the devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy how do I see a situation that might mirror these intentions and say that it is of God? If God is for me and not against me, why then would He curse me, not bless me, permit misfortune, and so on? How is it possible to conflate darkness with light?

probably one of the deepest questions a Christian can ask themself

the Bible says to hold fast to that which is true.

a major issue would be to continue to have faith that God does love you and knows what is going on

the temptation is to turn away

we are not an island and whether we like it or not, we are affected by people around us and we cannot control what they do to make ourselves more comfortable

personally, I do not believe that every single thing that happens is God 'allowing it'. we are in a spiritual battle and somehow have to come to terms and settle for ourselves how we respond

all that sounds clinical, but I don't mean it to.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

My post on God giving prophecies on what mankind will do without consulting Him is just that, God does not make mankind act in the manner he does, He simply knows in advance,

Now this has no bearing on what Johan was given to dok Balaam , or any in the Word...…….this deals with mankind's actions without consulting kGod……..God knows what mkankind willdo, and He tells us in advance. Reread my post...……..do not twist things about, this is not the work of a child of God it is the works of the enemy.

I don't think those ideas are mutually exclusive.
Truely God does know, he knows the beginning from the end. Also knowing he allows, and no he does not direct people to do evil. He knows we will do it he warns us of doing it and let's us know of the consequences for doing it and then humanity does it and suffers the consequences.
However that does not exclude that God does direct us as individuals to do the things he wants us to do, and will apply pressure to make sure we do as directed. Which caused direct and lasting results and affects.

 

[JaumeJ]

Here is, again, a prime example of God telling mankind in advance what mankind will do. "The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants for the fruite of their doing." God does not bring this about, but He knows what will come about by mankind not considering Him….The greate Tribulation is marching towards us due to the acts of man……...etc.

 

[PennEd]

Allowed it? I don't think so. (Matt. 4:1) "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil."

I personally don't think satan wanted any part of this test. he knew Who Jesus was. he knew he had no chance.

Quantrill

No. I don't think satan knew Jesus wouldn't fail. Although satan knows who Jesus is, he still knew Him to be a man. He may have thought, after seeing how weak humans are, that the temptations he offered Christ, might have been sufficient, since He is still a human.

I also don't believe satan wanted Jesus murdered. He knows the Word. He, at least, knew the Messiah had to die. He did NOT want humanity redeemed.

We see this VERY directly when Jesus addresses satan point blank while satan whispered in Peter's ear in this passage:

Matthew 16:
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, AND BE KILLED, and be raised the third day.

22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, [i]“Far be it from You, LORD; this shall NOT happen to You!”

23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are [j]an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Even at the Cross satan, and the "bulls of Bashan" (read that demons) had the crowd, and the wicked crucified criminal, at Jesus's most vulnerable moment, tempt Him to come down from the Cross.

 

[pottersclay]

God allows Satan to do what he wanted to do all along: try and destroy God's chidren, during times of our testing.

Satan sees this as a weekends of God. Just as Satan thought he won when he had humans kill Jesus. Yet we know Jesus went and suffered and died for us willingly because He knew the bigger picture of ractifyinh the New covenant by His blood. Jesus ressurection ended Satan's celebration.

Did God will Satan to tempt Jesus in the desert?

No but He allowed it.

If God allows a test, it's because He has faith we can past and deal a blow against the kingdom of darkness. By passing the test, we may even win back a few souls back to our Heavenly Father because they not only hear of our faith in God, they also see how God carries us through troubles as nothing in this world can substain us.

I disagree a little here saint for Jesus was led by the spirit into the wilderness. The tempting for Christ to worship Satan was to avoid the cross. Notice he said (Satan) he will give the kingdoms and all that is in them . Praise God the Ramson was paid according
To the word of God.