Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?

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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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If you believe that, and I certainly agree with you that belief is all that is required for salvation under the gospel of grace (GOG), then I am saying the GC is not for you. The GC was given to Jews, to preach to Jews.

But they rejected the GOK, so now, all of us, Jews and Gentiles, must go through the GOG in order to be saved. (Acts 15:11)
It is One Gospel, which simply put is that "Jesus Saves." This basic message was given to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. The Jewish traditions have no salvic value, but are not harmful unless we believe the washing of hands, making animal sacrifices, not working on the Sabbath etc. bring salvation. They (works) do not save. This became clear to the Jews after the earthly Temple was destroyed in AD 70. After that they stopped making animal sacrifices and now Jew and Gentile are ALL ONE in Christ Jesus.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yeah, why let Scriptures get in the way of what you already believed to be true?
They don’t

They do not contradict my belief at all.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
If the list of verses I have shown many times here that the gospel preached in the 4 gospels is not the same dbr as what Paul preached will not change your mind, nothing else will
Yet paul in Gal says if ANYONE teaches a different gospel. They are to be accursed.

I guess paul did not get the memo that their are different gospels out there.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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It is One Gospel, which simply put is that "Jesus Saves." This basic message was given to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. The Jewish traditions have no salvic value, but are not harmful unless we believe the washing of hands, making animal sacrifices, not working on the Sabbath etc. bring salvation. They (works) do not save. This became clear to the Jews after the earthly Temple was destroyed in AD 70. After that they stopped making animal sacrifices and now Jew and Gentile are ALL ONE in Christ Jesus.
I understand that, people who believe the Gospel that Paul received from the ascended Christ, is exactly the same as the Gospel that was being preached in the 4 Gospels, will naturally believe that James and Paul were of like mind throughout the book of Acts.

If that is the case, then they will interpret the events in Acts 21 differently. That is okay, we can agree to disagree.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Yet paul in Gal says if ANYONE teaches a different gospel. They are to be accursed.

I guess paul did not get the memo that their are different gospels out there.
Galatians was written after the Jerusalem Council event in Acts 15. James was written before that.

As I have shown in this thread, Acts 21 clearly showed James did not agree with Peter's proclamation, during that event, that there will only be one gospel from then on for Jews, as well as Gentiles, the gospel of grace, in Acts 15:11

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Galatians was written after the Jerusalem Council event in Acts 15. James was written before that.

As I have shown in this thread, Acts 21 clearly showed James did not agree with Peter's proclamation, during that event, that there will only be one gospel from then on for Jews, as well as Gentiles, the gospel of grace, in Acts 15:11

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
It does not Matter, It still fits


The gospel has NEVER CHANGED. Thats where you are mistaken. There was nt different ways to be saved, it was ALWAYS by grace through faith. From adam on.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I do not understand your abbreviations, so will not respond any more.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The emphasis is on believing. Those who do not believe shall be damned.

Jesus did not say that condemnation belonged to the one who was not baptized, only to the one who does not believe.
Somehow my post got rearranged
 
Jul 23, 2018
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If you believe that, and I certainly agree with you that belief is all that is required for salvation under the gospel of grace (GOG), then I am saying the GC is not for you. The GC was given to Jews, to preach to Jews.

But they rejected the GOK, so now, all of us, Jews and Gentiles, must go through the GOG in order to be saved. (Acts 15:11)
So Jesus preached a different gospel?
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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Galatians was written after the Jerusalem Council event in Acts 15. James was written before that.

As I have shown in this thread, Acts 21 clearly showed James did not agree with Peter's proclamation, during that event, that there will only be one gospel from then on for Jews, as well as Gentiles, the gospel of grace, in Acts 15:11

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
James keeps us from thinking we can fool God into "greasy grace" and winking at sin.
The Holy Spirit wrote the bible. The Holy Spirit was not preaching 2 gospels.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
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The entire nt is salvation through Jesus.
Not a 2 gospel confused bible
it is known as eliciting of biblical truth, not just truth but foundational Truth. This is done out of spiritual pride. TO appear as some kind overly gifted person in a revelation that no other has. It's clear. "everyone is not as learned in the word as I kind of thinking.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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So Jesus preached a different gospel?
There was no gog before the dbr of Jesus. In the 4 gospel accounts, there was no gospel for the gentiles as Jesus was only sent to the Jews. The only gospel being proclaimed then was the gok. The bible clearly stares that no dbr was preached then.

Strange that you are making this into such a big deal. If you think about it, it made perfect sense to keep that revelation of the dbr was deliberately kept as a secret, a mystery that only revealed to the Apostle Paul. if that mystery was revealed then, Satan would not have allowed Jesus to be crucified (1 Cor 2:8).

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

To me, it is clear. If Satan understood the divine exchange when Jesus was on Earth preaching, he would also understood that he could no longer use the law to condemn Christians who believe in the divine exchange, why would he deliberately cause his own permanent defeat by tempting everyone, especially Judas, to set the train in motion for Jesus’s crucifixion?

Isn't God's plan, in making revelation only progressive, great?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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it is known as eliciting of biblical truth, not just truth but foundational Truth. This is done out of spiritual pride. TO appear as some kind overly gifted person in a revelation that no other has. It's clear. "everyone is not as learned in the word as I kind of thinking.
More and more Christians are now rightly dividing the word of truth and they are understanding that revelation is progressive. It is clearly not just yours truly alone.

It seems you find it very difficult to agree to disagree with people who think differently from you. That to me is spiritual pride.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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It does not Matter, It still fits

The gospel has NEVER CHANGED. Thats where you are mistaken. There was nt different ways to be saved, it was ALWAYS by grace through faith. From adam on.
I agree with you, salvation is always by grace thru faith alone, since Adam. But you need to understand the concept of progressive revelation.

During the dispensation of the law, you exhibit faith by "obeying the law", all the Jews have to obey the law. It is true that all the saints of past ages were saved through the merits of Christ's shed blood, but not through their faith in that shed blood.

Those of past ages were expected to believe only what God had thus far revealed, or what He had revealed to them. In other words, they were saved simply because they trusted God and believed what He said. The full plan of salvation has since been unfolded, but the Scriptures make it crystal clear that these believers were saved without even understanding that Christ would die for them.

When God says, "Repent and be baptized for the remission. of sins," what will faith do? Just one thing: repent and be baptized. We know that oceans of water cannot wash away one sin, yet when John the Baptist and Peter preached repentance and baptism for remission not one of their hearers would have interpreted their words to mean: "Trust in the death of Christ for salvation."

Indeed, when God required water baptism for salvation the only way to manifest faith was to be baptized, and those who refused to do so were condemned for their unbelief:

"But the Pharisees and lawyers REJECTED THE COUNSEL OF GOD AGAINST THEMSELVES, BEING NOT BAPTIZIED OF HIM" (Luke 7:30).

But under the Gospel of Grace, let the Apostle Paul, our Apostle, spell out the church doctrine for salvation now.

"BUT NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested" (Rom. 3:21);

"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5)

"Being Justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24);

"In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7);

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" (Tit. 3:5);

"Not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9)

When God now says this, what will faith do? Faith will say, "This is the most wonderful offer ever made by God to man. I cannot refuse it. I will trust Christ as my Savior and accept salvation as the free gift of God's grace."

Trust me when I tell you, everyone else from the Old Testament, King David, Noah, even the 4 Gospels guys such as Peter, James and John, will be very envious about you.

Their conditions for showing faith were not as simple as what we have to do, under the age of Grace.

Noah had to build an ark. (Hebrews 11:7)

Abel had to bring the correct sacrifice (Gen 4:4-5, Heb. 11:4)

Abraham had to believe, at his advanced years, that God would make him a father of many (Genesis 15:5-6)
Rahab had to hide the spies, at the risk of being caught and punished (Hebrews 11:31)

The point is that, by the time it reach us Gentiles, thanks to Jesus ushering the age of Grace, all we need to do, in order to display faith, is simply believing and speaking

This is the most wonderful offer ever made by God to man. I cannot refuse it. I will trust Christ as my Savior and accept salvation as the free gift of God's grace." :)

We simply believe the message, that Jesus Christ has started and completed the work required for our salvation and we cease from our work and believe it. If we do that, we will receive the same righteousness as Abraham received (Gal 3:6-9). I especially like the NLT version.

6 In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” 7 The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God. 8 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would make the Gentiles right in his sight because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.”[c] 9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
More and more Christians are now rightly dividing the word of truth and they are understanding that revelation is progressive. It is clearly not just yours truly alone.

It seems you find it very difficult to agree to disagree with people who think differently from you. That to me is spiritual pride.
No not at all you just forget the tone of your initial responses to many here. Your own language is subjective to inferiority to something or to a person when you posted to others.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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No not at all you just forget the tone of your initial responses to many here. Your own language is subjective to inferiority to something or to a person when you posted to others.
If you felt that way, that is unfortunate. But I cannot control how others choose to respond when they read my post.

Here, people have claimed numerous times that I am not truly saved, I am a child of the devil and so on and so forth. If I were to be upset by these remarks, there is really no point in debating in Internet forums. :)
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
If you felt that way, that is unfortunate. But I cannot control how others choose to respond when they read my post.

Here, people have claimed numerous times that I am not truly saved, I am a child of the devil and so on and so forth. If I were to be upset by these remarks, there is really no point in debating in Internet forums. :)
In our Bible studies at church we seek to build each other up in the faith and bring honour and glory to the Lord. I'm not seeing that here on the internet.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
I agree with you, salvation is always by grace thru faith alone, since Adam. But you need to understand the concept of progressive revelation.
We do.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I agree with you, salvation is always by grace thru faith alone, since Adam. But you need to understand the concept of progressive revelation.

During the dispensation of the law, you exhibit faith by "obeying the law", all the Jews have to obey the law. It is true that all the saints of past ages were saved through the merits of Christ's shed blood, but not through their faith in that shed blood.

Those of past ages were expected to believe only what God had thus far revealed, or what He had revealed to them. In other words, they were saved simply because they trusted God and believed what He said. The full plan of salvation has since been unfolded, but the Scriptures make it crystal clear that these believers were saved without even understanding that Christ would die for them.

When God says, "Repent and be baptized for the remission. of sins," what will faith do? Just one thing: repent and be baptized. We know that oceans of water cannot wash away one sin, yet when John the Baptist and Peter preached repentance and baptism for remission not one of their hearers would have interpreted their words to mean: "Trust in the death of Christ for salvation."

Indeed, when God required water baptism for salvation the only way to manifest faith was to be baptized, and those who refused to do so were condemned for their unbelief:

"But the Pharisees and lawyers REJECTED THE COUNSEL OF GOD AGAINST THEMSELVES, BEING NOT BAPTIZIED OF HIM" (Luke 7:30).

But under the Gospel of Grace, let the Apostle Paul, our Apostle, spell out the church doctrine for salvation now.

"BUT NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested" (Rom. 3:21);

"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5)

"Being Justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24);

"In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7);

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" (Tit. 3:5);

"Not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9)

When God now says this, what will faith do? Faith will say, "This is the most wonderful offer ever made by God to man. I cannot refuse it. I will trust Christ as my Savior and accept salvation as the free gift of God's grace."

Trust me when I tell you, everyone else from the Old Testament, King David, Noah, even the 4 Gospels guys such as Peter, James and John, will be very envious about you.

Their conditions for showing faith were not as simple as what we have to do, under the age of Grace.

Noah had to build an ark. (Hebrews 11:7)

Abel had to bring the correct sacrifice (Gen 4:4-5, Heb. 11:4)

Abraham had to believe, at his advanced years, that God would make him a father of many (Genesis 15:5-6)
Rahab had to hide the spies, at the risk of being caught and punished (Hebrews 11:31)

The point is that, by the time it reach us Gentiles, thanks to Jesus ushering the age of Grace, all we need to do, in order to display faith, is simply believing and speaking

This is the most wonderful offer ever made by God to man. I cannot refuse it. I will trust Christ as my Savior and accept salvation as the free gift of God's grace." :)

We simply believe the message, that Jesus Christ has started and completed the work required for our salvation and we cease from our work and believe it. If we do that, we will receive the same righteousness as Abraham received (Gal 3:6-9). I especially like the NLT version.

6 In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” 7 The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God. 8 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would make the Gentiles right in his sight because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.”[c] 9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
So you agree

Then spend the rest of your post saying the opposite?


Ie, You disagree

which is it?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
More and more Christians are now rightly dividing the word of truth and they are understanding that revelation is progressive. It is clearly not just yours truly alone.

It seems you find it very difficult to agree to disagree with people who think differently from you. That to me is spiritual pride.
No, not spiritual pride, it is following the advice of the apostle Paul who wrote: Dear friends, I wanted very much to write to you about the salvation we all share together. But I felt the need to write to you about something else: I want to encourage you to fight hard for the faith that God gave his holy people. God gave this faith once, and it is good for all time. (Jud 1:3 ERV)