Is the doctrine of limited atonement biblical?

[7seasrekeyed]

here's another quote from Spurgeon

In his work, “A Defence of Calvinism,” he states unequivocally: here is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation

who do we follow then? the gospel of Calvin or the gospel of Christ? they do not at all appear to be the same

frankly, as a non Calvinist, I am both insulted and assaulted when I read 'Calvinism is the gospel and nothing else'

who do we follow then? the gospel of Calvin or the gospel of Christ? they do not at all appear to be the same

 

[Nehemiah6]

frankly, as a non Calvinist, I am both insulted and assaulted when I read 'Calvinism is the gospel and nothing else'

The cult of Calvinism is similar to any other cult. What they teach is supposedly carved in stone, and woe to the one who rejects it.

The amazing thing is that of the many intelligent and gifted Calvinist preachers, none of them were able to discover the fallacies of TULIP simply by searching the Scriptures for themselves. And then REJECTING this nonsense. That goes to show the degree of brainwashing that goes on (or went on), and how Satan has worked among professing Christians to turn them away from the truth.

Every non-Calvinist sees TULIP as a false gospel ("another gospel") and Paul condemned any other gospel than the true Gospel as "accursed". To preach that God elects (or selects) anyone for damnation is a DAMNABLE DOCTRINE.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The cult of Calvinism is similar to any other cult. What they teach is supposedly carved in stone, and woe to the one who rejects it.

The amazing thing is that of the many intelligent and gifted Calvinist preachers, none of them were able to discover the fallacies of TULIP simply by searching the Scriptures for themselves. And then REJECTING this nonsense. That goes to show the degree of brainwashing that goes on (or went on), and how Satan has worked among professing Christians to turn them away from the truth.

Every non-Calvinist sees TULIP as a false gospel ("another gospel") and Paul condemned any other gospel than the true Gospel as "accursed". To preach that God elects (or selects) anyone for damnation is a DAMNABLE DOCTRINE.

heretic and heresy is accusation commonly flung by Calvinists

I think Calvinism is a trap that ensnares people and you are right about how the devil works this trap

I say the above fully aware some might think I am simply trying to throw stones as stones have been thrown at me, but I don't say these things lightly

not one has answered my repeated question of how they deal with saying God condemns some people to hell...in fact creates them for that purpose according to Calvinists...when scripture states God created the lake of fire for the devil and his angels

 

[wolfwint]

The doctrines of grace, which some call the Five Points of Calvinism (TULIP), are the topic of some threads I’ve started.

I am not typically the kind of person who likes to debate this topic with people on forums, but a small number of individuals have harassed me on this topic as it has been brought up in threads. Some have called the teaching demonic, and one indicated that I was an idiot for thinking Reformed theology is biblical.

So, I decided to explain the five doctrines of grace in separate threads over time, and why I hold this position. I may also cover other aspects of Reformed teaching in the future.

I don’t believe Reformed theology is necessary to understand for salvation, and I have several non-Reformed friends. None of them are anti-Reformed haters, though, or I wouldn’t spend much time with them.

I think it is important for the encouragement of the Church to understand the principles related to Reformed theology. Why?

Reformed theology should lead to humility. The doctrines of grace were meant to humble the Christian into realizing that salvation is God’s work, therefore they cannot take credit for it. The real believer seeks to glorify and worship God, not themselves and themselves.

Due to influences in the church that I will call “free will theology”, the vast majority of Christians are being taught to glorify human free-will over God’s sovereignty.

Man-centered theology leads to pride and a lack of humility. Pride is the deadly enemy of the believer. Ironically, it can also lead to self-condemnation and a lack of self-confidence in some, because their focus is not on the LORD but is on themselves and their own weakness.

So, is the doctrine of limited atonement biblical? If not, why not?

I will describe why I think it is biblical.

Well, i am convinced that we have present no single denominaton which is 100% right in there doctrine.
I hold it with an bible school teacher who said: The gospel is preached to all and when you except it and once enter heaven through a big gate. Then you will find written when you look to the top of the gate: selected from begin of the world.
Anyway you have to preach the gospel to all.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Well, i am convinced that we have present no single denominaton which is 100% right in there doctrine.
I hold it with an bible school teacher who said: The gospel is preached to all and when you except it and once enter heaven through a big gate. Then you will find written when you look to the top of the gate: selected from begin of the world.
Anyway you have to preach the gospel to all.

Amen..I totally believe that.

You are describing the "general call". Those who respond are effectually called, but the gospel is preached to all.

 

[garee]

The cult of Calvinism is similar to any other cult. What they teach is supposedly carved in stone, and woe to the one who rejects it.

The amazing thing is that of the many intelligent and gifted Calvinist preachers, none of them were able to discover the fallacies of TULIP simply by searching the Scriptures for themselves. And then REJECTING this nonsense. That goes to show the degree of brainwashing that goes on (or went on), and how Satan has worked among professing Christians to turn them away from the truth.

Every non-Calvinist sees TULIP as a false gospel ("another gospel") and Paul condemned any other gospel than the true Gospel as "accursed". To preach that God elects (or selects) anyone for damnation is a DAMNABLE DOCTRINE.

Two kinds of mercy .One in respect to his grace .The other its the end death never to rise.

I would agree God has one kind of mercy on some "eternal life". The others another kind of mercy. They simply will not rise to new spirit life and receive the promised new body. .

The false gospel says. God is merciless and those who have not received saving grace will suffer for ever and ever without end in Purgatory or Limbo..

God magnifies His law above name as is not he is not except from it .What he says to us he must obey. The idea of a God without mercy forever and ever is not a biblical teaching.

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed "no mercy"; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

[notuptome]

Here's the point:

Christ's atonement actually saved people. It didn't potentially save people.

Therefore universal atonement, taught by free-willers is false.

Otherwise the claim is that Christ didn't actually save anyone but he made their salvation possible.

Those who deny eternal security compound their error even further, because they don't believe that the salvation of those who place their faith in Christ is guaranteed.

At least the ones who believe in eternal security realize that those who place their faith in Christ are secure...I'll give them that much.

This is where you err. To teach that salvation occurred at the atonement is not correct. The atonement satisfies the penalty of God on sin. The atonement is not imputed until belief in Christ. Christ has taken our place in judgment. Our sin is laid upon Him and His righteousness given to us. What a wonderful exchange. His robes for mine. He bore my penalty that I could not bare myself.

Salvation has always been by grace through faith. OT believed that God would provide a Savior and the NT believes that Jesus is the promised Savior from God. David proclaimed that blessed is the man to whom God will not impute iniquity. Not by works but by faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

This is where you err. To teach that salvation occurred at the atonement is not correct. The atonement satisfies the penalty of God on sin. The atonement is not imputed until belief in Christ. Christ has taken our place in judgment. Our sin is laid upon Him and His righteousness given to us. What a wonderful exchange. His robes for mine. He bore my penalty that I could not bare myself.

Salvation has always been by grace through faith. OT believed that God would provide a Savior and the NT believes that Jesus is the promised Savior from God. David proclaimed that blessed is the man to whom God will not impute iniquity. Not by works but by faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The salvation of the elect was earned at the Cross, but was applied by the Holy Spirit in time, at the point of the person's regeneration, which produces faith and repentance.

Of course I believe in a triple imputation. Adam's sins were imputed to man. The believer's sins were imputed to Jesus. The righteousness of Jesus is imputed to the believer at the point of regeneration, too, along with all the other benefits of salvation.

Your issue is believing in a defective so-called atonement. The atonement accomplished NOTHING for any particular person under your theology. It only made POSSIBLE salvation for those who choose, of their own hard heart, to exercise repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

The atonement in Scripture is ACTUAL and PERSONAL. The sins of each of the elect were atoned for on the Cross. They were not simply made possible; they were atoned for.

I don't worship your emasculated god who cannot accomplish his will. YHVH accomplishes his will. Period. End of sentence.

 

[notuptome]

The salvation of the elect was earned at the Cross, but was applied by the Holy Spirit in time, at the point of the person's regeneration, which produces faith and repentance.

Of course I believe in a triple imputation. Adam's sins were imputed to man. The believer's sins were imputed to Jesus. The righteousness of Jesus is imputed to the believer at the point of regeneration, too, along with all the other benefits of salvation.

Your issue is believing in a defective so-called atonement. The atonement accomplished NOTHING for any particular person under your theology. It only made POSSIBLE salvation for those who choose, of their own hard heart, to exercise repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

The atonement in Scripture is ACTUAL and PERSONAL. The sins of each of the elect were atoned for on the Cross. They were not simply made possible; they were atoned for.

I don't worship your emasculated god who cannot accomplish his will. YHVH accomplishes his will. Period. End of sentence.

Election is the result of salvation not the cause of salvation. You cannot begin to understand the will of God as long as you shape Him into the image you demand. You are the same as the Muslim in that you make a god who is vengeful and manipulative to serve your earthly desires.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Election is the result of salvation not the cause of salvation. You cannot begin to understand the will of God as long as you shape Him into the image you demand. You are the same as the Muslim in that you make a god who is vengeful and manipulative to serve your earthly desires.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again, the typical free-willer claim...God doesn't choose, you choose.

Too bad Paul didn't agree. Notice that he indicates that God chose weak things to confound the mighty, and to ensure that no man has ground for boasting, in 1 Cor 1:26ff.

 

[notuptome]

Again, the typical free-willer claim...God doesn't choose, you choose.

Too bad Paul didn't agree. Notice that he indicates that God chose weak things to confound the mighty, and to ensure that no man has ground for boasting, in 1 Cor 1:26ff.

Incorrect exegesis or as some would say esigesis. There is no boasting is receiving the grace of God by faith received from hearing Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Incorrect exegesis or as some would say esigesis. There is no boasting is receiving the grace of God by faith received from hearing Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Is the hearing of the gospel accompanied by regeneration to enable the faith and repentance response?

If not, then it is the man's contribution to salvation, and he can tell God, you couldn't have done it without me.

 

[notuptome]

Is the hearing of the gospel accompanied by regeneration to enable the faith and repentance response?

If not, then it is the man's contribution to salvation, and he can tell God, you couldn't have done it without me.

That is your opinion and judgment not Gods. God has declared how He will administer judgment and mercy to fallen mankind. News flash for you God is not interested nor impressed with your opinion. I do not say that to be unkind but God is God and we are not.

We hear the gospel and we are convicted over our sin, the judgment of God upon sin, and the righteousness of Christ. John 16:8-11

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kohelet]

Well, i am convinced that we have present no single denominaton which is 100% right in there doctrine.
I hold it with an bible school teacher who said: The gospel is preached to all and when you except it and once enter heaven through a big gate. Then you will find written when you look to the top of the gate: selected from begin of the world.
Anyway you have to preach the gospel to all.

Tach Wolfie!

I've heard this too, several times over many years, and have accepted it until recently. The verse goes, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight" (Eph. 1:4).

Paul is writing in this part of the chapter about believers, people who are already "in him". Paul doesn't write "to be in him." And what are we (who are in him) chosen for? "To be holy and blameless in his sight." This is God's will for believers. The passage says nothing about our being chosen for salvation. Not until v13 does Paul mention the time a

 

[kohelet]

Tach Wolfie!

I've heard this too, several times over many years, and have accepted it until recently. The verse goes, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight" (Eph. 1:4).

Paul is writing in this part of the chapter about believers, people who are already "in him". Paul doesn't write "to be in him." And what are we (who are in him) chosen for? "To be holy and blameless in his sight." This is God's will for believers. The passage says nothing about our being chosen for salvation.

[Oh, whoops. It's never a good idea to try to do this on an ancient iPad. Recipe for disaster. I'm on the computer now. I'll continue, shall I? Hit "Click to expand" and continue reading.]

So, this isn't about our being chosen for salvation at all. It is about the Lord's will for us who are in him. Look at how many times "in him" or "in Christ" appear in the chapter. This is all about the Lord's expectation for believers.

In v5 though, we read, "In love he predestined us for adoption as sons...". But even this isn't about our being predestined for salvation. Romans 8:23 (again it's Paul using the phrase) makes it clear that this is a future thing: "We ... groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies." This will happen when the Lord returns and "creation itself is set free from its bondage to corruption" (v21).

Tschüss!

 

[wolfwint]

[Oh, whoops. It's never a good idea to try to do this on an ancient iPad. Recipe for disaster. I'm on the computer now. I'll continue, shall I? Hit "Click to expand" and continue reading.]

So, this isn't about our being chosen for salvation at all. It is about the Lord's will for us who are in him. Look at how many times "in him" or "in Christ" appear in the chapter. This is all about the Lord's expectation for believers.

In v5 though, we read, "In love he predestined us for adoption as sons...". But even this isn't about our being predestined for salvation. Romans 8:23 (again it's Paul using the phrase) makes it clear that this is a future thing: "We ... groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies." This will happen when the Lord returns and "creation itself is set free from its bondage to corruption" (v21).

Tschüss!

Yes, my friend. But when I read through ephesians 1 I found that in vers 5 i am predistinatet as child and sealed with the Holy Spirit in vers 13.
Is this not speaking about salvation? I would understand it is about salvation.
Tschüss

 

[garee]

heretic and heresy is accusation commonly flung by Calvinists

I think Calvinism is a trap that ensnares people and you are right about how the devil works this trap

I say the above fully aware some might think I am simply trying to throw stones as stones have been thrown at me, but I don't say these things lightly

not one has answered my repeated question of how they deal with saying God condemns some people to hell...in fact creates them for that purpose according to Calvinists...when scripture states God created the lake of fire for the devil and his angels

Angels are not subject to salvation. The law thou shalt not eat of the forbidden fruit was to mankind alone.

Remember the Bible speaks of two kinds of mercy. .God is not without mercy where a person would never die and suffer forever .( the misconception of hell). Or the elect kind. . . mercy seasoned with grace.

Mercy with grace and mercy without grace.

The later will rise on the last day and receive the promise of their new incorruptible body . The remainder will not rise to new spirit life . The letter of the law "death" is destroyed never to rise and condemn a entire creation.

 

[notuptome]

Is the hearing of the gospel accompanied by regeneration to enable the faith and repentance response?

If not, then it is the man's contribution to salvation, and he can tell God, you couldn't have done it without me.

Man you must have an unlimited supply of straw. You continue to pose absurd conclusions that are a product of your overactive imagination. You set up false narratives of free will verses hyper Calvinism that you allow only to be seen from a totally biased viewpoint.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Your hyper Calvinist view of so called radical depravity has no basis in scripture in view of John 1:9

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[TooFastTurtle]

heretic and heresy is accusation commonly flung by Calvinists

I think Calvinism is a trap that ensnares people and you are right about how the devil works this trap

I say the above fully aware some might think I am simply trying to throw stones as stones have been thrown at me, but I don't say these things lightly

not one has answered my repeated question of how they deal with saying God condemns some people to hell...in fact creates them for that purpose according to Calvinists...when scripture states God created the lake of fire for the devil and his angels

The cult of Calvinism is similar to any other cult. What they teach is supposedly carved in stone, and woe to the one who rejects it.

The amazing thing is that of the many intelligent and gifted Calvinist preachers, none of them were able to discover the fallacies of TULIP simply by searching the Scriptures for themselves. And then REJECTING this nonsense. That goes to show the degree of brainwashing that goes on (or went on), and how Satan has worked among professing Christians to turn them away from the truth.

Every non-Calvinist sees TULIP as a false gospel ("another gospel") and Paul condemned any other gospel than the true Gospel as "accursed". To preach that God elects (or selects) anyone for damnation is a DAMNABLE DOCTRINE.

What I have wrote down in my soul is that it seems all heresies and errors originate from a biblical truth, that is then boosted to the extreme, twisted or made to overshadow other truths.

We have universalism, which overshadows God's holiness and wrath, it boosts God's love to the extreme where everyone is saved no matter what.

We have calvinism, which overshadows God's love and human's free moral agency, it boosts Ephesians 2:1-6 and God's sovereignity to a point where all evil is predestinated to occur and only way God can be sovereign is if He decrees everything that comes to pass, He cannot sovereignly choose to give man a free will to choose who He will serve.

We have hyper-charismatics, which overshadow the verses about order and importance of the Scriptures, and go to unscriptural lengths with their howling and foaming at the mouth doing circus theatre on stage. On the other extreme the devil has convinced some people there are no more miracles, its all over with now, God is not active anymore, no spiritual gifts, no nothing. The devil played both sides on this debate.

There are many extremes such as this, the extreme to hyper-calvinism would be open theism, where God does not even know the future.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Tach Wolfie!

I've heard this too, several times over many years, and have accepted it until recently. The verse goes, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight" (Eph. 1:4).

Paul is writing in this part of the chapter about believers, people who are already "in him". Paul doesn't write "to be in him." And what are we (who are in him) chosen for? "To be holy and blameless in his sight." This is God's will for believers. The passage says nothing about our being chosen for salvation. Not until v13 does Paul mention the time a

If we are not chosen for salvation then what? It says “in love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,” so we were chosen in Christ from before the creation of the world to be adopted as His sons. That’s election unto salvation. That’s clearly the meaning of this passage.