Is God that cruel?
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This is absurd..........and, there are several Members here who KNOW that since I have been a Member here I have always said I and my Church extend the hand of Christian Fellowship to all who profess to be a Christian, and are striving to live a Christian life.
You simply do not know what you are talking about.
Do I disagree with Calvinism/predestination? Yup!!!!! However, that does not mean I do not think those who do are not saved.
PennEd is a strong believer and I consider him a very spirit filled man, and he and I converse frequently. I also have other friends here who believe in predestination,.
What I do not believe is those who HAMMER predestination as THE CARVED IN STONE truth............it is beyond question that there are numerous Scriptures to support both views.
I believe in free will............and I have always said others are free to believe as they believe they are led to believe.
That is just baloney on your part.........everyone knows what I am speaking of...........but, this is the way you do things......for there is no truth in you
So, the LIAR here is you Sir..............
You simply do not know what you are talking about.
Do I disagree with Calvinism/predestination? Yup!!!!! However, that does not mean I do not think those who do are not saved.
PennEd is a strong believer and I consider him a very spirit filled man, and he and I converse frequently. I also have other friends here who believe in predestination,.
What I do not believe is those who HAMMER predestination as THE CARVED IN STONE truth............it is beyond question that there are numerous Scriptures to support both views.
I believe in free will............and I have always said others are free to believe as they believe they are led to believe.
That is just baloney on your part.........everyone knows what I am speaking of...........but, this is the way you do things......for there is no truth in you
So, the LIAR here is you Sir..............
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Don't misunderstand me, I knew such a response (as yours) was coming. 
When I speak of predestination, I am speaking of the people who teach that God created a person to go to Hell. You have made a distinction, that God knew they would go to Hell but there is a difference of knowing the actions of another and creating them for that purpose. God's foreknowledge isn't influential in terms of culpability.
Its like you've watched a video of a person skydiving on Youtube. Replaying the video doesn't make you culpable for their actions, they made those decisions. You just happen to be able to see it before it happens (having seen it beforehand, like God's foreknowledge).
When you speak of destiny, in terms of salvation, I think we must be careful to not make it seem like the person didn't have a say (or response) in God's offering of Christ for the world. He is the propitiation for the sins of the world, and through our theological discussions and speculations, we shouldn't dismiss such a tenet of the faith. Christ died for humanity. To suggest that a person is predestined to Hell, with no say, is contrary to the desire of the Father. His desire is that all would repent.
When I speak of predestination, I am speaking of the people who teach that God created a person to go to Hell. You have made a distinction, that God knew they would go to Hell but there is a difference of knowing the actions of another and creating them for that purpose. God's foreknowledge isn't influential in terms of culpability.
Its like you've watched a video of a person skydiving on Youtube. Replaying the video doesn't make you culpable for their actions, they made those decisions. You just happen to be able to see it before it happens (having seen it beforehand, like God's foreknowledge).
When you speak of destiny, in terms of salvation, I think we must be careful to not make it seem like the person didn't have a say (or response) in God's offering of Christ for the world. He is the propitiation for the sins of the world, and through our theological discussions and speculations, we shouldn't dismiss such a tenet of the faith. Christ died for humanity. To suggest that a person is predestined to Hell, with no say, is contrary to the desire of the Father. His desire is that all would repent.
That's what I just said, you count all who practice false doctrine, preach a false gospel, and a false christ as believers, that is most true. That and you malign on here incessantly those who hold to Scripture, teachings of God you loath like predestination and election, and ridicule them while embracing the above.
It's rebellion to God's word, sir.
Any person who does preach the truth of Scripture, predestination, election, perseverance of the Saints, that are biblical, you denounce, malign and try to shame on CC.
Wonder what spirit in you denounces these things, these revelations of God, these truths of his word and embraces false gospels, false Christs, cultic types?
But oh, I most certainly do sir! There is witness to this on here as you endorse false gospels, and deny Scriptural revelation:
See? You prove my point. You take Scriptural truth, attack it, those who preach it and then you deny it. False gospels, false Christs and false religions you give a pass. It's highly probable you just don't know Scripture and rarely crack open a Bible. Nothing I've stated is false here, but go ahead, call the name "liar" or whatever and get your last word. You simply will not face the truth of yourself, your false practices and rebellion to God's word and become a biblical believer. That's a fact.
It's rebellion to God's word, sir.
Any person who does preach the truth of Scripture, predestination, election, perseverance of the Saints, that are biblical, you denounce, malign and try to shame on CC.
Wonder what spirit in you denounces these things, these revelations of God, these truths of his word and embraces false gospels, false Christs, cultic types?
But oh, I most certainly do sir! There is witness to this on here as you endorse false gospels, and deny Scriptural revelation:
See? You prove my point. You take Scriptural truth, attack it, those who preach it and then you deny it. False gospels, false Christs and false religions you give a pass. It's highly probable you just don't know Scripture and rarely crack open a Bible. Nothing I've stated is false here, but go ahead, call the name "liar" or whatever and get your last word. You simply will not face the truth of yourself, your false practices and rebellion to God's word and become a biblical believer. That's a fact.
You do not even KNOW what John Calvin taught, wrote, or did! You may well believe in predestination, but believing in predestination and believing in John Calvin are two completely different things. I think it is amazing that people are here on this Forum trumpeting the praises of John Calvin without even knowing what the man actually was.
See my Thread on Calvin and read the Historical Accounts about his teachings, writings, and actions, and THEN tell me you believe in Calvin.............
People should take the time to LEARN what it is/who it is they are professing to believe in at the very least.
Much clamor because I said calvinist do not believe those who disagree with them are saved.
Well, consider this:
Calvin even had people killed for disagreeing with his heresy on infant baptism. So many people today are naive of such men. I've been reading Christian books for years that quote Martin Luther and John Calvin—come to find out they both endorsed the heretical sacraments and infant baptism. Sacraments are NOT taught in the Bible.
I'd say my statement has merit............
Are there any here who wish to sing the praises of John Calvin? Seriously?
Well, consider this:
Calvin even had people killed for disagreeing with his heresy on infant baptism. So many people today are naive of such men. I've been reading Christian books for years that quote Martin Luther and John Calvin—come to find out they both endorsed the heretical sacraments and infant baptism. Sacraments are NOT taught in the Bible.
I'd say my statement has merit............
Are there any here who wish to sing the praises of John Calvin? Seriously?
That would be untrue sir. Must you always lie? Why is it that you just make up something like you know what I've studied, read &c? Is it that you think if it comes out of your mouth it's true? I mean please stop the nonsense, it's very very callow of you.
Of course I believe in predestination, I don't deny the Scriptures.
I suspect you don't know what Calvin taught about the biblical doctrine of predestination, a truth you loath, and those who believe the word on this. Right?
Who is trumpeting his praises, you? It certainly isn't me. He is, of course, much maligned, but in ignorance and hearsay. He was a very godly man who reached out to many with the Gospel.
There you go with more false assumptions of this nonsense that someone is "believing in Calvin." You're simply showing your ignorance and hate of others. For the record I personally came to the belief in the Doctrines of Grace without ever having read a word from Calvin, and not until this year have I ever read anything in book form on Calvin.
Are you aware that hating others in the body of Christ is a sign of not being converted, sir? Your hatred of others is duly noted, sir. Are you aware that bearing false witness and lying is another sign, sir, and something you literally practice? Are you aware that endorsing false gospels is another sign, "not abiding in the doctrine of Christ?" Read 1 John, 2 John, 3 John.
You are at the very least on the wrong track, and your hate of others is duly noted on here. You've attacked many brothers and sisters with your hate of predestination, election and perseverance of the saints, all the while you embrace false gospels and false christs. You deny the truths of Scripture.
Now, point me to your thread on Calvin so I can examine whether you continue bearing false witness over there as well as you do here.
And, where did you get your info on Calvin, other sources that hate him, that hate "Calvinism?" to serve your purely subjective agenda?
Or have you sat back, read his works, read The Institutes of The Christian Religion and other of his writings to come to your hate of a brother in Christ?
You do realize there is a lot of false information on him, right, and that not everything you google with "I hate Calvin, predestination and election so show me more of this!!!!!!!" as your search input is true?
Of course I believe in predestination, I don't deny the Scriptures.
I suspect you don't know what Calvin taught about the biblical doctrine of predestination, a truth you loath, and those who believe the word on this. Right?
Who is trumpeting his praises, you? It certainly isn't me. He is, of course, much maligned, but in ignorance and hearsay. He was a very godly man who reached out to many with the Gospel.
There you go with more false assumptions of this nonsense that someone is "believing in Calvin." You're simply showing your ignorance and hate of others. For the record I personally came to the belief in the Doctrines of Grace without ever having read a word from Calvin, and not until this year have I ever read anything in book form on Calvin.
Are you aware that hating others in the body of Christ is a sign of not being converted, sir? Your hatred of others is duly noted, sir. Are you aware that bearing false witness and lying is another sign, sir, and something you literally practice? Are you aware that endorsing false gospels is another sign, "not abiding in the doctrine of Christ?" Read 1 John, 2 John, 3 John.
You are at the very least on the wrong track, and your hate of others is duly noted on here. You've attacked many brothers and sisters with your hate of predestination, election and perseverance of the saints, all the while you embrace false gospels and false christs. You deny the truths of Scripture.
Now, point me to your thread on Calvin so I can examine whether you continue bearing false witness over there as well as you do here.
And, where did you get your info on Calvin, other sources that hate him, that hate "Calvinism?" to serve your purely subjective agenda?
Or have you sat back, read his works, read The Institutes of The Christian Religion and other of his writings to come to your hate of a brother in Christ?
You do realize there is a lot of false information on him, right, and that not everything you google with "I hate Calvin, predestination and election so show me more of this!!!!!!!" as your search input is true?
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More false information, lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Funny thing, you embrace JW's who deny the deity of Christ, wait, whoa, but they do preach your works salvation false gospel. That's why you embrace them, kindred spirit!
Yes, that is why, and I now realize why you give that cult a pass.
Your past signature was "Remaining Obedient Secures Eternity." Yep, you believe you're saved by what you do, and so do they. You both preach a false gospel.
FYI, infant baptism isn't a damning doctrine, and isn't against orthodoxy, and is not something I practice as I am Reformed Baptist. But your endorsement of JW's and your works gospel most certainly are unorthodox.
Funny thing, you embrace JW's who deny the deity of Christ, wait, whoa, but they do preach your works salvation false gospel. That's why you embrace them, kindred spirit!
Yes, that is why, and I now realize why you give that cult a pass.
Your past signature was "Remaining Obedient Secures Eternity." Yep, you believe you're saved by what you do, and so do they. You both preach a false gospel.
FYI, infant baptism isn't a damning doctrine, and isn't against orthodoxy, and is not something I practice as I am Reformed Baptist. But your endorsement of JW's and your works gospel most certainly are unorthodox.
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L
Not true, you must have never read the Bible. The Bible is very clear on what to do. In the new testament for everything it says not to do, it tells you what to do instead.
I can think of nothing more cruel than reincarnation. This world is filled with evil and suffering, and anguish, and sorrow, and loss, and sickness, and poverty, and war, and destruction, and famine, and flood, and murder, and savagery of all manner. To muddle through this mess again would be a hell of unfathomable proportion. If that was the best hope that was to offer. I would seek to destroy the very structure of the earth to end the endless torment of all.
Thank God and Christ, that in this wicked world we can see him shining in the darkness and find our way through this valley of the shadow of death, and that on the other side is peace and light and love and eternal reward.
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
Romans 8:18-25 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.8.18-25.NASB
I can think of nothing more cruel than reincarnation. This world is filled with evil and suffering, and anguish, and sorrow, and loss, and sickness, and poverty, and war, and destruction, and famine, and flood, and murder, and savagery of all manner. To muddle through this mess again would be a hell of unfathomable proportion. If that was the best hope that was to offer. I would seek to destroy the very structure of the earth to end the endless torment of all.
Thank God and Christ, that in this wicked world we can see him shining in the darkness and find our way through this valley of the shadow of death, and that on the other side is peace and light and love and eternal reward.
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
Romans 8:18-25 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.8.18-25.NASB
L
God did destroy it all a long time ago. He destroyed all of Sodom and Gomorrah save for one family deemed righteous. He destroyed the first born of every Egyptian house after hardening Pharaoh's heart so that he would be unable to let his people Go. And , just to list a few, he destroyed the entire population of the world by drowning, save for numbers of animals and Noah's family deemed righteous so as to populate the world again with sinful mortals. Noah was a drunkard. After the deluge. God sent in 2nd Kings 2 two bears to maul more than 40 children. God's laws prescribed death for certain sins, transgressions, deemed abomination. Adultery, homosexuality.
God is cruel. He is also kind. Remember though, God is the darkness and the light. God is all things.
By the way, Diogenes' Chicken....
You featherless biped you.
God is cruel. He is also kind. Remember though, God is the darkness and the light. God is all things.
By the way, Diogenes' Chicken....
1 John 1:5-6 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.1.5-6.NASB
I see you looked at my profile. Lol
God does not punish His children. Those who acknowledge
His Lordship are His. Those who do not, are not His children.
The bible says he scorges every child child he recieves.
We are judged in this life,not the next one.
Correction is not pleasant.
It was God that invented the paddle and made it to fit every father's/mother's hand. The heavenly is illustrated in the earthly.
It took about 5 pages of replies before someone took you to the crossroad.
Demi
You have no baseline.
That is your dilemma.
Holy God <> sinful man<> Gods remedy/requirement.
Your formula has no remedy,but worse yet,no inkling that you even need one.
Once you establish you need a savior,you only have one choice,Jesus.
No other outlet has a risen savior.
Once you establish that heaven has a requirement for sin,innocent blood,you can grasp the big picture.
God is "the inspite of" God.
He saved us inspite of our obcession with the forbidden.
No greater love anywhere.
The Gospel of Jesus litterally overwhelms in love. Like a honey waterfall. Liquid love extended to you and me.
No brainer. Get born again
Demi
You have no baseline.
That is your dilemma.
Holy God <> sinful man<> Gods remedy/requirement.
Your formula has no remedy,but worse yet,no inkling that you even need one.
Once you establish you need a savior,you only have one choice,Jesus.
No other outlet has a risen savior.
Once you establish that heaven has a requirement for sin,innocent blood,you can grasp the big picture.
God is "the inspite of" God.
He saved us inspite of our obcession with the forbidden.
No greater love anywhere.
The Gospel of Jesus litterally overwhelms in love. Like a honey waterfall. Liquid love extended to you and me.
No brainer. Get born again
They should seek the scriptures pertaining to Job so as to gain assurance their trials are just another test.
One cannot judge such one's have met with avarice and impertinence unless one knows the individual in question. One cannot judge others for that when exampling the very same themselves
Those who are false are called out because their fakery is transparent to the keen eye of those in God's service. We are watchers on the wall. Standing guard against all that would come against the truth of God in Christ and seek to devour those who put trust before caution. The strong intend to insure such ravenous one's starve before standing idle, passive, so as to let that happen.
And woe to those who think that wrong.
One cannot judge such one's have met with avarice and impertinence unless one knows the individual in question. One cannot judge others for that when exampling the very same themselves
Those who are false are called out because their fakery is transparent to the keen eye of those in God's service. We are watchers on the wall. Standing guard against all that would come against the truth of God in Christ and seek to devour those who put trust before caution. The strong intend to insure such ravenous one's starve before standing idle, passive, so as to let that happen.
And woe to those who think that wrong.