Is faith a reliable way to know truth?

[MattforJesus]

If, for example, a Hindu says "I have faith that Vishnu is my lord and saviour", does that make Vishnu true?

It does not, and God said to the other religions to have your god do something, good or evil, that we may behold it, and He told us the end from the beginning, the whole history of mankind.

The next kingdom to come the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section, warned us of the new age movement, and people that interpret the Bible according to evolution, and people can still evolve, that will develop in to a unified religious system and evolution as standard religion world wide, and no other beliefs tolerated for they want peace, that do not acknowledge a personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power.

The nations governments will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth, and all people that do not love God will follow a kingdom that is in rebellion against God saying, I am and there is no one else beside me, and then God will put down the wicked, and that is it for sin on earth.

God already told us what is going on today, and that He is ready to wrap it up for He only gave mankind a certain amount of years to dwell on earth to take a people out of the world for His name, and then He has to put the wicked down, which is what the book of Revelation is about, a warning to the world to get right with God so they can escape falling in to the trap of following the world that God will put down.

The God of Israel told us the whole history of mankind, and said no other religion, or their so called god would be able to do that, and they cannot, for if they could they would know what is going down in the world today, but the God of Israel already told us about it.

 

[Renate]

But if you were really a Christian before, than you must have believed in God then, so what changed?

Yes I did believe in God and I experienced (what I believed to be) his presence. What changed is that I started questioning my basis for believing in God. I found that I did not have any good reasons, and I only believed because I had grown up being told that God is real and that the bible is his word. I started questioning the bible and the church's teachings and never got satisfying answers to my questions. I also learned more about science and human psychology, which gave me logical and reasonable answers. So the bottom line is that I don't have any reason to believe anymore.

 

[notuptome]

Because I don't believe there is a God. (Yes, I know "the fool says in his heart...") I see no reason to believe in God to be honest. I'm trying to understand why other people believe.

What is it that you do not like about God?

It is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Renate]

Romans 1:19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

God has revealed Himself in creation. All are without excuse when they appear before God.

Are you really questioning or are you really just denying?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Sorry, I don't see God in the universe. You are assuming that it is obvious to everyone that the universe was created, but it is not.

 

[Renate]

We all may believe for many different reasons, but the bottom line is that if you don't you get eternal damnation when you die. Even it were to turn out to be not true do you want to take the risk? Especially when eternal life is free? So again, what happened that you no longer believe?

Well, that assumes that there are only four options:

1. If you believe in God and God does exist, you will be rewarded with eternal life in heaven: thus an infinite gain.
2. If you do not believe in God and God does exist, you will be condemed to remain in hell forever: thus an infinite loss.
3. If you believe in God and God does not exist, you will not be rewarded: thus an insignificant loss.
4. If you do not believe in God and God does not exist, you will not be rewarded, but you have lived your own life: thus an insignificant gain.

If these were the only options, then you are right. It would probably be wise to believe just to avoid eternal damnation. But would that be sincere? Anyway, these are not the only options. What if the true God is not the christian God, and christians actually get eternal damnation? You might think that is silly, but from an outside perspective there really is no difference.

 

[Renate]

What is it that you do not like about God?

It is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There are many things I do not like about the christian God, for example the atrocities he committed in the old testament. But that is not my main concern. My main concern is that I see no reason he is real in the first place.

 

[Musicus]

Yes I did believe in God and I experienced (what I believed to be) his presence. What changed is that I started questioning my basis for believing in God. I found that I did not have any good reasons, and I only believed because I had grown up being told that God is real and that the bible is his word. I started questioning the bible and the church's teachings and never got satisfying answers to my questions. I also learned more about science and human psychology, which gave me logical and reasonable answers. So the bottom line is that I don't have any reason to believe anymore.

I'm sad for you, I don't what else to say, except I hope you will again notice the many reasons to believe. I hope God touches your heart about something, because you'll find that science and logic don't have all the answers.

 

[Renate]

I'm sad for you, I don't what else to say, except I hope you will again notice the many reasons to believe. I hope God touches your heart about something, because you'll find that science and logic don't have all the answers.

I know that science and logic don't have all the answers. But neither do you. What the scientific method tries to do is to find answers by looking at evidence. Even if scientists don't have all the answers, it is a reliable way of going about finding answers. I would rather find answers by reliable methods than believe without evidence.

 

[Renate]

It does not, and God said to the other religions to have your god do something, good or evil, that we may behold it, and He told us the end from the beginning, the whole history of mankind.

The next kingdom to come the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section, warned us of the new age movement, and people that interpret the Bible according to evolution, and people can still evolve, that will develop in to a unified religious system and evolution as standard religion world wide, and no other beliefs tolerated for they want peace, that do not acknowledge a personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power.

The nations governments will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth, and all people that do not love God will follow a kingdom that is in rebellion against God saying, I am and there is no one else beside me, and then God will put down the wicked, and that is it for sin on earth.

God already told us what is going on today, and that He is ready to wrap it up for He only gave mankind a certain amount of years to dwell on earth to take a people out of the world for His name, and then He has to put the wicked down, which is what the book of Revelation is about, a warning to the world to get right with God so they can escape falling in to the trap of following the world that God will put down.

The God of Israel told us the whole history of mankind, and said no other religion, or their so called god would be able to do that, and they cannot, for if they could they would know what is going down in the world today, but the God of Israel already told us about it.

How did you come to those conclusions?

 

[Renate]

Thanks for all your replies, really appreciate it! I'm going to bed now since it's midnight where I live, so I won't be replying anytime soon.

 

[shrume]

Complex things can form out of simple things, it is called "emergence".

Do you have a real life example? When have simple things ever changed into complex things without outside influence?

 

[maxwel]

If, for example, a Hindu says "I have faith that Vishnu is my lord and saviour", does that make Vishnu true?

"Is faith a reliable way to know truth?"


Faith is not an epistemology; it is not a method for knowing...
it is a response to what is known.

Most atheists, probably due to no fault of their own, have such a poor understanding of both theology and philosophy that their questions are virtually incoherent.




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[reneweddaybyday]

I agree with you, that what makes a belief true is whether the object of that belief exists in reality.

The above statement is faulty. The sun exists in reality. There are some who believe the sun is "god". Just because some believe the sun is "god" does not make the sun "God" (as in the Creator of the heaven and the earth and all that is therein).

So when a person who believes the sun is "god" comes across adversity, he or she prays in vain because the sun cannot deliver him or her in time of trouble.

However, when a person who believes in God, the Creator of the heaven and the earth and all that is therein, comes across adversity, he or she prays and God works within to either deliver him or her or He provides him or her with what is needed in order to withstand.

So you are saying that faith is not a reliable way to know truth? How, then, can we determine whether "God exists" is a true statement?

Faith is reliable. Faith is more reliable than what we are able to discern with our five senses, our intellect, our emotions.

We observe the glory of God in His creation. That draws us to Him and causes us to want to know Him more. We seek Him out and He reveals Himself to those who come to Him.

Proverbs 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.


Also, He has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe. That is what God has chosen in order to make Himself known. We observe His glory in creation and we are interested and want to know more about the Creator. We seek Him. Inevitably God will send someone across the path of those who are hungering and thirsting after righteousness who will speak the truth of the gospel.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I don't agree that everybody has faith. Faith in my opinion is belief without evidence. Not everyone believes things without evidence.

Romans 12:3 tells us that God has given everyone a measure of faith. Faith remains weak in those who resist God's truth and turn from Him.

God works within those who do not resist and He strengthens their faith. God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him (Heb 11:6).

There is a day coming when all will stand before God and give an account. If God gives faith to some and does not give faith to some, those who reject God will have an excuse come judgment day.

 

[Zmouth]

everybody believes (has faith in) something.

Can you believe that 'believing' and 'faith' are not the same thing?

By faith a person could believe all things (see 1 Cor 13:7) which requires one to rightly divide the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15).

As written in Mark 9:23, 'Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.' but by faith it is known that not all things are possible; yet if a person doesn't have faith they simply believe whatever they choose to believe, yet faith is the substance of thing(s) hope for, the evidence of thing(s) not seen.

So if one doesn't believe that 'faith' and 'believing' might mean the same thing and that they might not mean the same thing, then why would a person need search and make inquiry or try the words since not all things one hears or reads are the word of truth.

Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently. Deut 13:14
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: 1 John 4:1

Since a person doesn't any reason to hope something is true, can you give the reason you believe that 'faith' and 'believing' mean the same thing if you have faith in what you believe is the truth?

"... and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1 Peter 3:15

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So how did one come to God since no man can come to the Father but through the Son and no man can come to the Son except but by the Father?

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: John 6:44
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

A paradox to the faith of the believer who 'Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.'
which is ironic since the LORD is a God of truth.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

 

[Zmouth]

"Is faith a reliable way to know truth?"

Faith is not an epistemology; it is not a method for knowing...
it is a response to what is known.
------------

I disagree, faith is the process of coming to the knowledge of the truth, being the process to distinguish between justified hope and beliefs without substance.

 

[maxwel]

I disagree, faith is the process of coming to the knowledge of the truth, being the process to distinguish between justified hope and beliefs without substance.

You can disagree all you like, but you would be incorrect.

Biblically, faith and belief are synonyms.
Belief is a response to a proposition.
Belief is the personally held affirmation that a proposition is true... nothing more than that.
It isn't mysterious or complicated.

Belief is not "how" we come to know God... belief is our response to knowing God.
A person encounters God (acquires knowledge), then chooses to believe in God.
The Calvinist believes that choice is irresistible; the Arminian believes that choice is resistible, but we still encounter God first and then make a choice to believe after that encounter... and this equates to believing after knowing.

It is logically impossible to believe BEFORE knowing, because otherwise you wouldn't have anything to believe IN.
You have knowledge of a thing, and then you believe in that thing... you cannot reverse cause and effect and do it backward.
I'll reiterate, it is logically impossible to believe BEFORE knowing, because you wouldn't have a thing to believe IN.

In the particular matter of a conversion experience, we could say these sometimes APPEAR to occur simultaneously, but knowledge is still "logically prior" to belief due to simple logical necessity.




We don't need to make this so complicated.
It's extremely simple.

There is nothing complicated here.




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[Endoscopy]

If, for example, a Hindu says "I have faith that Vishnu is my lord and saviour", does that make Vishnu true?

For Christians we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Grace is free and works can earn it. After receiving this there will be works. James 2 states faith without works is dead. So works is a result of grace through faith.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Since a person doesn't any reason to hope something is true, can you give the reason you believe that 'faith' and 'believing' mean the same thing if you have faith in what you believe is the truth?

Let's take a look at 1 John 4:1 (a verse you quoted):

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world

The word "believe" is the Greek word pisteuete a form of pisteúō.

Pisteúō means:​

​

4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.​

Copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.​

So how did one come to God since no man can come to the Father but through the Son and no man can come to the Son except but by the Father?

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: John 6:44
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

A paradox to the faith of the believer who 'Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.'
which is ironic since the LORD is a God of truth.

Not really a paradox. God's glory and righteousness is revealed in His creation (Psalm 19:1; 50:6); God's eternal power and divinity is clearly seen in His creation (Rom 1:20).

We either turn to God or we turn away from God when we see His glory, righteousness, eternal power, and divine nature.

God allows us to resist the truth of His glory, righteousness, eternal power, and divine nature, and if/when we resist, we can end up stepping further and further away from Him. Some step so far away from God to the point they become reprobate.

On the other hand, if we do not resist the truth, but seek to know Him, He will reveal Himself to us. At this point in time, God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe (1 Cor 1:21).

 

[Dino246]

I agree with you, that what makes a belief true is whether the object of that belief exists in reality. So you are saying that faith is not a reliable way to know truth? How, then, can we determine whether "God exists" is a true statement?

I don't agree that everybody has faith. Faith in my opinion is belief without evidence. Not everyone believes things without evidence.

Hi Renate,
"Belief without evidence" has nothing to do with biblical faith. That would be "blind faith". Christian faith is anything but blind. The Bible itself defines faith for us: "the assurance of things hoped for, the assurance of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). The evidence is the resurrection of Jesus Christ after His certain death on a Roman cross. There is abundant evidence of both; more so than anything else in the ancient world.