If homosexuality is a sin, then why didn't Jesus say anything about it?
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Jesus didn't say it was a sin to get stoned on Heroin, He didn't need to spell out every single sin and warn against it. Most people know right from wrong, it's written on our hearts.
Everybody knows that two men are not built to have sex with each other, nature tells you that. Most homosexuals wish they weren't homosexual, they gave themselves over to that sin at some stage and then they find they can't go back to being normal because their concise is sired with a hot iron.
It's like Heroin addicts, they knew it was wrong to try it but they still tried it and it consumed their lives and they became enslaved to it. The homosexuals are salves to their sin nature, just like all the slaves of sin are enslaved. If they had the Holy Spirit indwelling them, they would never overcome the Holy Spirit and commit such serious sins in the first place.
Jesus said we would know them by their fruits, I believe He was telling us how to distinguish Gods people from the reprobate.
Everybody knows that two men are not built to have sex with each other, nature tells you that. Most homosexuals wish they weren't homosexual, they gave themselves over to that sin at some stage and then they find they can't go back to being normal because their concise is sired with a hot iron.
It's like Heroin addicts, they knew it was wrong to try it but they still tried it and it consumed their lives and they became enslaved to it. The homosexuals are salves to their sin nature, just like all the slaves of sin are enslaved. If they had the Holy Spirit indwelling them, they would never overcome the Holy Spirit and commit such serious sins in the first place.
Jesus said we would know them by their fruits, I believe He was telling us how to distinguish Gods people from the reprobate.
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Jesus is the Author and the essence of the Holy Scripture (John 1.1). Therefore, it was He who, by the prophets and apostles, shew this clearly:
- "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Lev 18.22).
- "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet." (Rom 1.26,27).
- "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor covetous, nor thieves, nor drunkards, nor abusive people, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. " (1Cor 6.9,10).
- "knowing this, that law has not its application to a righteous person, but to the lawless and insubordinate, to the impious and sinful, to the unholy and profane, to smiters of fathers and smiters of mothers; to murderers, fornicators, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers; and if any other thing is opposed to sound teaching, according to the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God, with which *I* have been entrusted. " (1Tim 1.9-11).
It is all about normalization and we are only in the beginning stages of the normalization process, S and M is normal, gender fluid is normal, and on and on...
Interesting how the science truth is never challenged, could it be because science does not support their claims.
Interesting how the science truth is never challenged, could it be because science does not support their claims.
2. No, S&M is not considered to be normal. Gender fluidity? You mean transgendered? I just dont know and dont think we havve enough information yet to know why people "think" they are of the wrong sex. Is it mental illnesss or is there some problem. I will not pretend to understand these issues.
3. Not sure what you mean when you say Science goes unchallenged. I presume you believe in it when it benefits (example: medicine and curing of disease, and do not when it says that homosexuality is an orientation.
Note: I have not said it is NOT a sin, but I do know that IF anyone believes they can choose, they must either be gay or bisexual. I could not/would not want to make this "choice" because I have ZERO attraction to the same sex.
This seems to be a very hot topic. Less than 4% of the population is not a threat to me. No need to call them awful names like pervert, pedophile, beastial, whatever. Since scientific studies that show this "lie", there is no proof. Show me your studies that prove the connection. Are they, then, unscientific and therefore true?
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U
1. That was also true of homosexuality, it is just a matter of time. In ancient Greece pedophilia was widely practiced did they have a moral compass?
2. Agreed
3. "I was born this way" "I was born with this orientation" where is the science to support this claim? You do understand that people do become slave to sin, what begins as a choice, or a result of sexual abuse, or a compulsion they act on becomes their orientation.
Note: It is a threat in that it is part of a larger agenda.
There is well documented health problems/cancers as a result of this lifestyle, both male and female.
I agree there is absolutely no basis for hate or name calling.
People are born male and female, this is basic biology. The male/female biology is designed with complementary anatomy. The onus of proof is on you to prove that orientation is present as birth.
People live under all kinds of delusions about themselves, that fact other people accept the delusion as normal does not negate the fact that it is still a delusion.
One last time ... to choose means that you find it attractive. I can't choose because I am repulsed by same-sex sex ... cannot even imagine it for a moment. No one in their right mind would make a choice that condemns them, that makes them the butt of jokes, crimes, etc. It, logically CANNOT be a choice at all.
As to the homosexual agenda, what would that be? They have always been and will always be. They just want the right not to be killed, the right to not lose their job, etc. I believe they deserve the same rights we have.
I never said people are born with homosexuality or that it is genetic. The truth is we do not know ... yet. Maybe it is hormonal. I will give you an example:
I am left handed (only 10% of the population is). Both parents, grandparents, and siblings are ALL righthanded ... so is it genetic? NO. Because it would take 2 dominant genes to produce it. so what is it? what caused it? There are things we do not have the answers to and I believe the cause of homosexuality remains unknown. That it is not a choice is obvious to me because, as I said, the very idea makes me ill. (No insult to anyone intended) ... I am sure that homosexuals feel the same way.
It was said of the Jews that they were dirty .. that they wanted to dominate the world, etc. It was said of blacks that their blood was tainted and unclean .. therefore, they were not allowed to eat or go to the same toilets as white people. There has always been fear and prejudice and hate in the world.
As to the homosexual agenda, what would that be? They have always been and will always be. They just want the right not to be killed, the right to not lose their job, etc. I believe they deserve the same rights we have.
I never said people are born with homosexuality or that it is genetic. The truth is we do not know ... yet. Maybe it is hormonal. I will give you an example:
I am left handed (only 10% of the population is). Both parents, grandparents, and siblings are ALL righthanded ... so is it genetic? NO. Because it would take 2 dominant genes to produce it. so what is it? what caused it? There are things we do not have the answers to and I believe the cause of homosexuality remains unknown. That it is not a choice is obvious to me because, as I said, the very idea makes me ill. (No insult to anyone intended) ... I am sure that homosexuals feel the same way.
It was said of the Jews that they were dirty .. that they wanted to dominate the world, etc. It was said of blacks that their blood was tainted and unclean .. therefore, they were not allowed to eat or go to the same toilets as white people. There has always been fear and prejudice and hate in the world.
U
There is a disconnect in your reasoning, just because you do not choose and cannot relate to that choice, does not prohibit others from choosing and preferring that type of sex. I have had gay men tell me they prefer gay sex because other men know what men like. So your argument does not reflect reality.
Actually the cause of homosexuality was known and discussed in any second year abnormal psychology course / book prior to the 1970's.
You keep saying is not a choice and yet you do not even know what was considered the etiology of homosexuality prior to 1970.
There is no analogy between the prejudice towards the colour of someone's skin and someone's sexuality.
God does not declare something a sin if He created the person that way. It is either one or the other and cannot be both.
You need to decided who you believe.
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I think I hear what you're saying, and I don't see any need to condemn you for wanting to discuss the matter rationally. However, I disagree with some of your ideas.
First, I think our understanding of genetics is not adequate to make pronouncements about what causes what. Clearly, which hand you prefer to use is innate rather than consciously chosen. It may be a simple genetic equation; it may not.
I would suggest that you consider the root cause of homosexual attraction in light of the fall of mankind in Genesis 3. All the brokenness of the world is the result, direct or indirect, of this event. Brokenness resulting in sin cannot be a matter of genetics in the same way that handedness is, because handedness is not a moral issue (though, oddly enough, at one time it was considered to be!).
I believe that while homosexual attraction may not be a conscious choice, that does not excuse it from being sinful. The choice remains to act on the preference or to seek God to be set free from it. He will give grace and strength to those who humbly choose His ways. He will also allow people to choose to ignore His grace, and will give them the consequences of those choices.
First, I think our understanding of genetics is not adequate to make pronouncements about what causes what. Clearly, which hand you prefer to use is innate rather than consciously chosen. It may be a simple genetic equation; it may not.
I would suggest that you consider the root cause of homosexual attraction in light of the fall of mankind in Genesis 3. All the brokenness of the world is the result, direct or indirect, of this event. Brokenness resulting in sin cannot be a matter of genetics in the same way that handedness is, because handedness is not a moral issue (though, oddly enough, at one time it was considered to be!).
I believe that while homosexual attraction may not be a conscious choice, that does not excuse it from being sinful. The choice remains to act on the preference or to seek God to be set free from it. He will give grace and strength to those who humbly choose His ways. He will also allow people to choose to ignore His grace, and will give them the consequences of those choices.
With regard to this section particularly, there is a fundamental difference between the "rights" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (as examples) and the "right" to be accepted for your lifestyle. I don't think this is a right, because it infringes on MY right to have a moral compass and to believe that some things are inherently wrong. It is selective, hypocritical intolerance.
Further, many employers will fire a person for engaging in criminal activity, even if unrelated to the workplace, because it reflects on the employer. If I and my clients believe that a certain activity is sinful, and one of my employees openly engages in that activity, continued employment of that person could be construed as condoning that activity. I'd fire a drug user or persistent alcoholic. I'd fire a convicted pedophile. There will come a time when even pedophiles are protected by laws similar to those that presently protect gays.
Should people be assaulted for their beliefs? No, but that happens to Christians and nobody blinks an eye. It happens to Muslims and everyone is up in arms.
I suggest you do some homework on the actual nature of the so-called "homosexual agenda". It isn't what you seem to think it is.
Further, many employers will fire a person for engaging in criminal activity, even if unrelated to the workplace, because it reflects on the employer. If I and my clients believe that a certain activity is sinful, and one of my employees openly engages in that activity, continued employment of that person could be construed as condoning that activity. I'd fire a drug user or persistent alcoholic. I'd fire a convicted pedophile. There will come a time when even pedophiles are protected by laws similar to those that presently protect gays.
Should people be assaulted for their beliefs? No, but that happens to Christians and nobody blinks an eye. It happens to Muslims and everyone is up in arms.
I suggest you do some homework on the actual nature of the so-called "homosexual agenda". It isn't what you seem to think it is.
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Actually the cause of homosexuality was known and discussed in any second year abnormal psychology course / book prior to the 1970's.
Actually, I do know what the "theory" of the cause was. Freudian theory is now in disrepute, ie: passive father/dominant mother. If that were true, 50% of us would be gay, lol.
God does not declare something a sin if He created the person that way. It is either one or the other and cannot be both.
You need to decided who you believe.[/QUOTE]
Ah, thank you. I now understand why some Christians view is as a choice .. because God would not make them that way. Interesting. Thank you.
Actually, I do know what the "theory" of the cause was. Freudian theory is now in disrepute, ie: passive father/dominant mother. If that were true, 50% of us would be gay, lol.
God does not declare something a sin if He created the person that way. It is either one or the other and cannot be both.
You need to decided who you believe.[/QUOTE]
Ah, thank you. I now understand why some Christians view is as a choice .. because God would not make them that way. Interesting. Thank you.
U
Ah, thank you. I now understand why some Christians view is as a choice .. because God would not make them that way. Interesting. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
Actually was not even thinking about Freud but a rather qualitative and quantitative research that has been conducted I gather you have not read those studies.
Yup God cannot be blamed for sin, Paul states it rather clearly,...
Romans 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.
Actually was not even thinking about Freud but a rather qualitative and quantitative research that has been conducted I gather you have not read those studies.
Yup God cannot be blamed for sin, Paul states it rather clearly,...
Romans 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.
S
Actually was not even thinking about Freud but a rather qualitative and quantitative research that has been conducted I gather you have not read those studies.
Yup God cannot be blamed for sin, Paul states it rather clearly,...
Romans 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.[/QUOTE]
You do jump to conclusion
I think it is illogical to think that God makes people as homosexual. It is a biproduct of a broken system. The way we were created was for procreation. Anything else is abomination. It is a mind separated from the will of God that invents ways to seek pleasure by unnatural means. If you want to take a scientific approach, the homosexual hypocampus and amygdala are said to be opposite heterosexual sizes (female and gay male similar, male and lesbian similar). It is not the desire but the action that is sin. Desire is programmed, partially by God and partly society. Sex is big business. That’s why it’s so sensationalized. It has been used to manipulate almost from the beginning. Anyone who puts their own pleasure as a priority over Gods design, isn’t really serving Him.
If a homosexual really wants to submit to the authority of the Most High then the Holy Spirit will convict them, I don’t have to do it.
If a homosexual really wants to submit to the authority of the Most High then the Holy Spirit will convict them, I don’t have to do it.
U
The brain does change according to one's behaviour.
Behaviour patterns affect the structure of the brain.
So differences in the hippocampus and amygdala would need to be present at birth. This then causes problems for those who claim to be bi sexual. I would not believe everything you read when it comes to neuroscience, honest research conducted by honest researchers is a rarity.
Behaviour patterns affect the structure of the brain.
So differences in the hippocampus and amygdala would need to be present at birth. This then causes problems for those who claim to be bi sexual. I would not believe everything you read when it comes to neuroscience, honest research conducted by honest researchers is a rarity.