If disobedience nullifies the atonement, we are all in trouble

[crossnote]

but has the duty of overcoming sin been relegated back to us? putting us once again under the law?
or is sin overcome by Christ? and for us by Christ?

I wouldn't say it is a matter of reverting back under the law but rather presenting our members to God and not presenting our members as servants of sin...

Romans 6:11-17 (NASB) Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

 

[Lanolin]

People underestimate the power of God to keep us from sin once we are in Christ.

But first thing one does is OBEY the gospel by hearing it and believing it. If one doesnt believe, then the gospel has no effect cos it must be mixed with faith for those who hear it right? The gospel is basically believing Jesus died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead to give us eternal life.

Now this is a fact, its true, but if one refuses to believe the truth, then nothing can be done. You cant repent and believe if you are still unrepentant and in unbelief.

There are lots of verses about obeying the gospel...am not going to post them all here. You can look them them up. There is one thing that important to start a new life in christ is to be baptised..which is why Jesus says repent and be baptised...he doesnt just say repent and leave you wondering what to do next.

 

[crossnote]

People underestimate the power of God to keep us from sin once we are in Christ.

But first thing one does is OBEY the gospel by hearing it and believing it. If one doesnt believe, then the gospel has no effect cos it must be mixed with faith for those who hear it right? The gospel is basically believing Jesus died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead to give us eternal life.

Now this is a fact, its true, but if one refuses to believe the truth, then nothing can be done. You cant repent and believe if you are still unrepentant and in unbelief.

There are lots of verses about obeying the gospel...am not going to post them all here. You can look them them up. There is one thing that important to start a new life in christ is to be baptised..which is why Jesus says repent and be baptised...he doesnt just say repent and leave you wondering what to do next.

You do realize there are two ways the word 'gospel' is used? The first is in the general sense of the accounts written in Matt., Mark, Luke and John. The other sense is the narrow sense specifically that by which we are saved, found in Romans chaps 1-3 and succinctly 1Cor 15:1-5. In this strict sense, Gospel is what Christ has done in Christ in saving us.

 

[selfdissolving]

I wouldn't say it is a matter of reverting back under the law but rather presenting our members to God and not presenting our members as servants of sin...

Romans 6:11-17 (NASB) Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

so then the duty of presenting our members has been relegated to us then?
it's all about my own personal ability again?

 

[Nehemiah6]

so then the duty of presenting our members has been relegated to us then?
it's all about my own personal ability again?

Personal RESPONSIBILITY. Unless you are trying yo be excused and exempted from your own responsibility.

 

[crossnote]

so then the duty of presenting our members has been relegated to us then?
it's all about my own personal ability again?

Well, it's more like Christ has set you free from sin...walk in that freedom lest you be entangled with the bondage of the law or the flesh. See Rom 6 & Gal 5.

 

[selfdissolving]

Well, it's more like Christ has set you free from sin...walk in that freedom lest you be entangled with the bondage of the law or the flesh. See Rom 6 & Gal 5.

so Christ has done for me what i couldn't do for myself....only to turn me right back over to it?

 

[Grandpa]

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


The Lord Jesus gives us rest from our work at the law. If we continue to abide in Him we produce fruit and are free from the bondage of sin and the law.

But if we go back to working at the law, the 10 commandments, like many people prescribe, even Christians, then we go back to the yoke of bondage, the yoke of sin, trying to attain a righteousness on our own that can't be reached.

 

[p_rehbein]

If the atonement was perfect, we are all okay.
Thoughts?

man being disobedient in no way makes what Christ did imperfect..............His perfect sacrifice allows man the opportunity to become worthy of being called children of God. Disobedience is by man, not Christ.............

So, I'm not sure what you are trying to put forth, unless you are simply rehashing the OSAS argument...........and, that has been done to death............sooooooooo

 

[Adstar]

If the atonement was perfect, we are all okay.
Thoughts?

Only for those who believe the Words of Jesus and trust 100% in the Atonement Jesus secured on the cross for their salvation and eternal life with God..

 

[Lanolin]

so Christ has done for me what i couldn't do for myself....only to turn me right back over to it?

No hes simply saying get off of your butt and walk just like when the lame man got healed. The lame man didnt stay lame did he Jesus had healed him so he could walk. HE had given him the ability and he gives YOU the ability.

 

[Journeyman]

so Christ has done for me what i couldn't do for myself....only to turn me right back over to it?

Brother, Jesus died because men hate God. He rose so our faith would be in the One we once hated. And the One we once hated created all things and gave them to us, so there's nothing for him to turn over to us. The sin in our lives is destroyed by this knowledge, of who he is and what he did...if you really believe it.

 

[crossnote]

so Christ has done for me what i couldn't do for myself....only to turn me right back over to it?

He has given you a new heart, new desires; freedom from sin, satan and the flesh; power through His Holy Spirit; and His Word for guidance and faith. If you go back into the mire, it's on your dime not His.

 

[JaumeJ]

I do not think anyone will walk through the gates of pearl if he or she has led a willfull life of sin ater coming to the Lord, Jesus, unless they somehow turn back to Him……….I would love to thing all are saved for this is the desire fo our Father, that allsouls be saved.

 

[Grandpa]

He has given you a new heart, new desires; freedom from sin, satan and the flesh; power through His Holy Spirit; and His Word for guidance and faith. If you go back into the mire, it's on your dime not His.

This statement is a little mis-leading.

The Lord doesn't just give people all those things and then say "good luck storming the castle, boys". Right?

The Lord Jesus gives us those things little by little so that we know where our blessing and our righteousness are located.

So we know not to "storm the castle" by ourselves but to abide in Christ every step of the way.

If a person has a new heart, new desires, freedom from sin, satan and the flesh, power through the Holy Spirit and His Word, then by that time it should be fairly apparent WHERE all of that came from.

We grow in the Word. We are being perfected. It is a process. I wish it was a one and done kind of thing. I expected it to be a one and done kind of thing. But its not.


Look at it this way. If someone thinks they have no strength so they abide in Christ instead, no harm can really come from that. If someone thinks they do have strength and turn from Christ because they think they can do it on their own, that could end up not so good. That's the very thing that could cause them to end up (back) in the mire. The sheep don't take Christ the way they want to go. Christ takes the sheep where they are to go.

 

[crossnote]

This statement is a little mis-leading.

The Lord doesn't just give people all those things and then say "good luck storming the castle, boys". Right?

The Lord Jesus gives us those things little by little so that we know where our blessing and our righteousness are located.

So we know not to "storm the castle" by ourselves but to abide in Christ every step of the way.

If a person has a new heart, new desires, freedom from sin, satan and the flesh, power through the Holy Spirit and His Word, then by that time it should be fairly apparent WHERE all of that came from.

We grow in the Word. We are being perfected. It is a process. I wish it was a one and done kind of thing. I expected it to be a one and done kind of thing. But its not.


Look at it this way. If someone thinks they have no strength so they abide in Christ instead, no harm can really come from that. If someone thinks they do have strength and turn from Christ because they think they can do it on their own, that could end up not so good. That's the very thing that could cause them to end up (back) in the mire. The sheep don't take Christ the way they want to go. Christ takes the sheep where they are to go.

I was answering the OPs objection that 'whatever we 'did' was 'our doing' and therefore doing anything put us under the law'.

On your last paragraph, I completely agree.

 

[Blik]

David teaches us about sin and forgiveness. David tried to live a life pleasing to the Lord and boy, did he fail! But David always picked himself up, repented, and gave living well a try again and again.

Each time David was welcomed by the Lord and forgiven. God loved David and blessed Him. But David still had to pay for his sins in this world. A beloved son David had with Bathsheba died. A beloved son turned against him. David died a broken sorrowful old man.

Sin and obedience has certain set results, and sin's result is death. We are so very blessed with God's grace that protects our eternal life when we repent and accept what Christ did to pay for our sin. But still, if you are caught stealing you go to jail.