How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Laura798]

One of the arguments most opponents to the Rapture use is that it can't be right as it was a theory developed much later in comparison to other views. They all say that it began around 1830 through the ministry of Darby. Actually the pretrib rapture position does have historical precedent. Besides the apostle's teaching, a sermon was delivered in AD 373 by the Byzantine leader Pseudo-Ephraem entitled "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World" or "Sermon on the End fo the World". This includes a concept very similar to the pretrib rapture.

It is clear that the church isn't Israel, that Israel isn't the church. Of the promises of God to save Israel through the 70th week of Daniel (that the Lord Jesus Himself opens the first seal in Revelation 6 "the wrath of the Lamb" and the NT passages that state soooooo clearly that we (the church) are NOT appointed to God's wrath. Full stop. Period!

The early church fathers taught the Rapture.

Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. - On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;” so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

Cyprian
Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:

“We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”

Two Pretribulational References in the Early Church

1. The Shepherd of Hermas (95-150)

The Shepherd of Hermas was written between 96-150 AD. This document provides a statement that resembles a teaching of a pre-trib rapture doctrine. Though it is not exactly as found in modern day scholarly pretribulational writings, it still shows that an idea existed in some degree that God's people could escape the future tribulation that was to come on the whole earth. The text reads:

"You have escaped from the great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life serving the Lord blamelessly."

This is not a systematic teaching, nor does it answer all of the questions that one may have. But it does give a reference to the possibility that God's people can escape the great tribulation.

There are many more.

Dear Noteworthy, you said, "It is clear that the church isn't Israel, that Israel isn't the church. Of the promises of God to save Israel through the 70th week of Daniel (that the Lord Jesus Himself opens the first seal in Revelation 6 "the wrath of the Lamb" and the NT passages that state soooooo clearly that we (the church) are NOT appointed to God's wrath. Full stop. Period!"

However, all believers are Israel--we are adopted and are a part of God's chosen people.

https://www.bibleinfo.com/en/topics/true-israel-god

Excerpt from article linked above:

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7. "For they are not all Israel which are of Israel; neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children… but the children of promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:6-8

The children of promise are those who put their faith in Jesus.

"And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise" Galatians 3:29.

Whether they are Jewish or Gentile, God regards only those who have renewed hearts as true Israelites.

"For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, nor is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter' whose praise is not from men but from God." Romans 2:28,29, NKJV

 

[DavidTree]

That is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. So now you have proven that you are the false prophet. Your claim that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture never came out of the mouth of God is also totally FALSE. And here is the proof from AD 30 at the Last Supper:

JOHN 14:1-3: THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE PROPHESIED BY CHRIST HIMSELF
Let not your heart be troubled = THERE IS NO CONNECTION TO TRIBULATION

ye believe in God, believe also in me = THIS IS GOD ADDRESSING YOU

In my Father's house are many mansions = HEAVEN IS GOD'S HOUSE AND IT HAS COUNTLESS MANSIONS FOR BELIEVERS

if it were not so, I would have told you = THIS IS GOD'S TRUTH. BELIEV IT

I go to prepare a place for you = CHRIST IS PRESENTLY PREPARING A PLACE FOR HIS SAINTS IN HEAVEN

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again = CHRIST WILL SURELY FOR HIS BRIDE AT THE RAPTURE

and receive you unto myself = CHRIST COMES PERSONALLY AT THE RAPTURE TO RECEIVE HIS SAINTS

that where I am, there ye may be also = THE SAINTS WILL GO TO HEAVEN AT THE RAPTURE

NO NO NO - you are following in the steps of Mr Twister

i have always said this = we are not appointed to God's wrath = tribulation is not God's wrath

Shame Shame - your words to God's are not the SAME

These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation;
but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. John 16

And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith,
and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.

I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ

Get rid of the hate in your heart for your Brother who speaks the Truth and does not add to God's words.

 

[Laura798]

That is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. So now you have proven that you are the false prophet. Your claim that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture never came out of the mouth of God is also totally FALSE. And here is the proof from AD 30 at the Last Supper:

JOHN 14:1-3: THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE PROPHESIED BY CHRIST HIMSELF
Let not your heart be troubled = THERE IS NO CONNECTION TO TRIBULATION

ye believe in God, believe also in me = THIS IS GOD ADDRESSING YOU

In my Father's house are many mansions = HEAVEN IS GOD'S HOUSE AND IT HAS COUNTLESS MANSIONS FOR BELIEVERS

if it were not so, I would have told you = THIS IS GOD'S TRUTH. BELIEV IT

I go to prepare a place for you = CHRIST IS PRESENTLY PREPARING A PLACE FOR HIS SAINTS IN HEAVEN

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again = CHRIST WILL SURELY COME FOR HIS BRIDE AT THE RAPTURE

and receive you unto myself = CHRIST COMES PERSONALLY AT THE RAPTURE TO RECEIVE HIS SAINTS

that where I am, there ye may be also = THE SAINTS WILL GO TO HEAVEN AT THE RAPTURE

Nehemiah, first of all God can defend Himself--you are very harsh in your response. The greatest commandment is to Love God, the second to love others as yourself--the bible says to speak the truth in love. What do you think your anger actually accomolishes?

In your response to David you actually did not have any scripture that supports your position--you simply interpreted it with your own words to fit your doctrinal narrative. No one before Darby believed in a pre-trib rapture. "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."--2 Peter 2:1

"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short. 23At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it.…"Matthew 24:22

 

[Laura798]

Calm down and just show me a verse

Go back and read my original post.

 

[Nehemiah6]

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7. "For they are not all Israel which are of Israel; neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children… but the children of promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:6-8

1. These verses are frequently misunderstood and misapplied.

2. All believers have Abraham for their metaphorical "father" since it was first stated that Abraham believed God and it was accounted/imputed to him for righteousness (Gen 15).

3. Just as Isaac (who also believed God) was the child of promise, all believers are the children of promise, since Christ was promised to Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant.

4. While the Church is called "the Israel of God" in that all believing Israel + all believing Gentiles are in the Church, this does not nullify God's promises to Abraham regarding his "seed" through Isaac and Jacob -- the twelve tribes of Israel. "All Israel" will indeed be saved after the Second Coming of Christ (meaning people from every tribe will be saved, not necessarily every Jew living at that time).

5. The Church is distinct from Israel, and we see a glimpse of that in Revelation 7.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In your response to David you actually did not have any scripture that supports your position--you simply interpreted it with your own words to fit your doctrinal narrative.

To say that I did not give any Scripture is a lie in view of the Scripture I quoted. So why don't you give us your "interpretation" of that passage? Or will you try to twist it to mean something else?

 

[Laura798]

To say that I did not give any Scripture is a lie in view of the Scripture I quoted. So why don't you give us your "interpretation" of that passage? Or will you try to twist it to mean something else?

N, how is it a lie to say your scriptures don't support your position--NONE of them say Christ is coming Three Times--Christ is coming a SECOND time--not a second and third time. You also said,

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again = CHRIST WILL SURELY COME FOR HIS BRIDE AT THE RAPTURE"--it says he goes to prepare a place and is coming again--how does coming again in any way support pre-trib rapture?

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
Revelation 1:7
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

EVERY EYE will see HIM when HE comes--he is NOT coming in some secret pre-trib rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

A, please back up your comments with Scripture--you say He (Jesus) said--Apologetics must be based on scripture, not on 'he said, she said.'

Waiting on you to refute the words of Jesus i posted from mat 24.

Please back up with scripture

 

[DavidTree]

MAT 24 is written WITH context

Here it is. ( note that now Jesus shifts to " before the flood")
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

So we see the time frame. Prejudgement. The shift is now changed to prejudgement/ wrath/ tribulation.

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

He is coming preflood. No lie can change what is written.

Lets get even more context;
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Huh? That places the one taken/ left BEFORE THE FLOOD.

BEFORE THE FLOOD...THEN JESUS TOPS IT OFF AS NONE OTHER THAN THE PRETRIB RAPTURE
"42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

Vivid, vivid depiction of the pretrib rapture.

CONTEXT

i have to go now - one last thing for you to show i am in agreement you as i have always said: we escape God's wrath

You said: He is coming preflood. No lie can change what is written. = i AGREE
That places the one taken/ left BEFORE THE FLOOD. = i AGREE = we are taken BEFORE God's wrath/Flood

You also said: THEN JESUS TOPS IT OFF AS NONE OTHER THAN THE PRETRIB RAPTURE = this is FALSE

It is false because the FLOOD is Not Tribulation = It is God's WRATH

There was great tribulation upon the earth while Noah was building the Ark - No pre-trib rapture = only pre-wrath rapture.

When you change God's words from wrath to tribulation you commit an error and sin.

This is done for only one purpose = to support the error of pre-trib.

Find out what the great tribulation was in Noahs' days which brought upon the entire world God's wrath.

JESUS said the same will be going on - BEFORE - HIS COMING

 

[ewq1938]

that where I am, there ye may be also = THE SAINTS WILL GO TO HEAVEN AT THE RAPTURE

Taking people to heaven is NOT in the verse at all. Complete and utter eisegesis.

 

[TheLordIsMyRedeemer]

i have to go now - one last thing for you to show i am in agreement you as i have always said: we escape God's wrath

You said: He is coming preflood. No lie can change what is written. = i AGREE
That places the one taken/ left BEFORE THE FLOOD. = i AGREE = we are taken BEFORE God's wrath/Flood

You also said: THEN JESUS TOPS IT OFF AS NONE OTHER THAN THE PRETRIB RAPTURE = this is FALSE

It is false because the FLOOD is Not Tribulation = It is God's WRATH

There was great tribulation upon the earth while Noah was building the Ark - No pre-trib rapture = only pre-wrath rapture.

When you change God's words from wrath to tribulation you commit an error and sin.

This is done for only one purpose = to support the error of pre-trib.

Find out what the great tribulation was in Noahs' days which brought upon the entire world God's wrath.

JESUS said the same will be going on - BEFORE - HIS COMING

Yes, I agree that the harpazo event will be before God’s wrath in the midst of tribulation. It seems evident that many who hold to the pretribulation rapture theory state we cannot be in Daniel’s 70th week until Daniel 9:27 is fulfilled. This is a complex passage that scholars interpret in different ways. It is my view that we currently are already in Daniel’s 70th week and are experiencing tribulation.

It is fairly clear to me there will soon be a larger conflict with Israel and Iranian proxies. In my view, we are approaching the time of Jacob’s Trouble. Also, it seems evident the mark of the beast system is being formed. A global cryptocurrency system is likely going to be connected to the vaccine pass system. This will lead to the final mark of the beast.

So many signs have been fulfilled from Matthew 24:4-14. This volcano on La Palma in the Canary Islands has the possibility of generating a tsunami of significant size. There was just recently a 3.9 magnitude shallow quake on the island. These seismic events could cause a portion of the island to collapse.

The construction of the third temple will take approximately 1 to 1 and 1/2 years to build from what I have read. I understand why some believers in a pretrib/pre-Daniel’s 70th week rapture believe we still have another 3.5 years until the midpoint of this approximate 7 year period. I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture myself.

My estimated timeline for Daniel’s 70th week is 2019 to 2026.

 

[pottersclay]

You changed some words to Pauls words which was not in order of his doctrine nor the truth of Scripture.

Here is what the Apostle Paul & Scripture proclaim: 1 Thess 1:10

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

1.) wait for His Coming
2.) the Resurrection
3.) delivered from the coming wrath = the wrath of the Lamb = Revelation 6:16

1 Thess 4: 13-18

The Apostle Paul again repeats his words:

the dead in Christ rise FIRST
after that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up

The Apostle Paul's teachings are focused on His Coming and the Resurrection - FIRST FIRST FIRST = always FIRST

Our LORD said: I AM the RESURRECTION - HE never said Iam the rapture - get it right and be Right.

Revelation never says pre-trib rapture - never - but it does state where and when the RESURRECTION occurs.

Note: When i say 'when' it is not referring to a day or hour which only the Father knows.

Paul also said not all shall sleep (are dead) but those who are alive shall be caught up with those called from the grave. And shall be changed in a twinkling of the eye.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul also said not all shall sleep (are dead) but those who are alive shall be caught up with those called from the grave. And shall be changed in a twinkling of the eye.

No, Paul didn't say that. He said "with them in the clouds". The former dead are in clouds with Jesus when the rapture happens.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[DavidTree]

Dwell on this:

Yes, I agree that the harpazo event will be before God’s wrath in the midst of tribulation. It seems evident that many who hold to the pretribulation rapture theory state we cannot be in Daniel’s 70th week until Daniel 9:27 is fulfilled. This is a complex passage that scholars interpret in different ways. It is my view that we currently are already in Daniel’s 70th week and are experiencing tribulation.

It is fairly clear to me there will soon be a larger conflict with Israel and Iranian proxies. In my view, we are approaching the time of Jacob’s Trouble. Also, it seems evident the mark of the beast system is being formed. A global cryptocurrency system is likely going to be connected to the vaccine pass system. This will lead to the final mark of the beast.

So many signs have been fulfilled from Matthew 24:4-14. This volcano on La Palma in the Canary Islands has the possibility of generating a tsunami of significant size. There was just recently a 3.9 magnitude shallow quake on the island. These seismic events could cause a portion of the island to collapse.

The construction of the third temple will take approximately 1 to 1 and 1/2 years to build from what I have read. I understand why some believers in a pretrib/pre-Daniel’s 70th week rapture believe we still have another 3.5 years until the midpoint of this approximate 7 year period. I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture myself.

My estimated timeline for Daniel’s 70th week is 2019 to 2026.

Dwell on this, The Lord's Ministry on earth lasted 3.5 years

 

[DavidTree]

No, Paul didn't say that. He said "with them in the clouds". The former dead are in clouds with Jesus when the rapture happens.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

AGREE - the Lord is bringing with Him the Saints who have died in Him - their spirits/souls but they do not have their resurrected bodies.

When He Comes, He resurrects their bodies from the Grave and unites their spirits/souls into a New Glorified Body.

Do you believe Christ already resurrected them Before His coming?

If so, please share - thank You Brother

 

[ewq1938]

AGREE - the Lord is bringing with Him the Saints who have died in Him - their spirits/souls but they do not have their resurrected bodies.

When He Comes, He resurrects their bodies from the Grave and unites their spirits/souls into a New Glorified Body.

Do you believe Christ already resurrected them Before His coming?

No, but I believe the dead resurrect in heaven just after 7th trump.

 

[DavidTree]

No, but I believe the dead resurrect in heaven just after 7th trump.

- i read what you sent me - the gist of it and have to take a second look - THANK YOU for the info

This is how, imho, i see it so i could be wrong and maybe need more time.

1.) They would no longer be called the "dead in Christ" if they were given New Glorified Bodies

2.) There would be no need for a Resurrection at His Coming - Key word at His Coming.

3.) Paul is clear - the dead in Christ rise first - Dead Bodies must be Resurrected from their earthbound graves.
Again - they would not be called the "dead in Christ"

4.) Resurrection takes place on earth - just as our Lord's Body was Resurrected on earth

Let me know because
you are my Bro
and you and me
in Christ we Be
amen

 

[ewq1938]

- i read what you sent me - the gist of it and have to take a second look - THANK YOU for the info

This is how, imho, i see it so i could be wrong and maybe need more time.

1.) They would no longer be called the "dead in Christ" if they were given New Glorified Bodies

Sure but only after it happens. It hasn't happened yet so they are the dead in Christ. I often use "the former dead" for clarity when discussing post-second coming time periods.

2.) There would be no need for a Resurrection at His Coming - Key word at His Coming.

The resurrection is at the second coming, at the start of it.

3.) Paul is clear - the dead in Christ rise first - Dead Bodies must be Resurrected from their earthbound graves.
Again - they would not be called the "dead in Christ"

No, they don't have to resurrect on the Earth nor into old bodies. A resurrection is defined by "a standing up" and that can be done in a completely new body. No scripture shows the dead in heaven traveling to their old bodies, then resurrecting on the Earth and then climbing out of graves, or rising out of the seas etc. The new body is in heaven, the dead resurrect there and Christ "will bring with him" those same formerly dead people and they will be in clouds, when the rapture brings up people from ground. There is this whole non-sense about a u-turn in the pretrib doctrine. Well, there also a non-bblical u-turn in my peoples resurrection of dead in where they are in heaven, go down to Earth then u-turn back up to first heaven where they had just passed on their way down.

Remember Paul's wording:

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

The human body dissolved and a new body in heaven. Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.

4.) Resurrection takes place on earth - just as our Lord's Body was Resurrected on earth

The Lord's resurrection was unique.

 

[DavidTree]

Sure but only after it happens. It hasn't happened yet so they are the dead in Christ. I often use "the former dead" for clarity when discussing post-second coming time periods.




The resurrection is at the second coming, at the start of it.





No, they don't have to resurrect on the Earth nor into old bodies. A resurrection is defined by "a standing up" and that can be done in a completely new body. No scripture shows the dead in heaven traveling to their old bodies, then resurrecting on the Earth and then climbing out of graves, or rising out of the seas etc. The new body is in heaven, the dead resurrect there and Christ "will bring with him" those same formerly dead people and they will be in clouds, when the rapture brings up people from ground. There is this whole non-sense about a u-turn in the pretrib doctrine. Well, there also a non-bblical u-turn in my peoples resurrection of dead in where they are in heaven, go down to Earth then u-turn back up to first heaven where they had just passed on their way down.





The Lord's resurrection was unique.

There are no dead in Heaven - there are only living Saints - the dead in Christ refers to those who have died = their bodies are in the earth - but they are alive in Heaven with Christ. These He brings with Him.
Paul calls them the dead in Christ because they physically died as Blood Washed Saved Saints and their bodies went to the grave, but their spirits went to Heaven to be with the Lord - just as Paul spoke of himself.
This he does to give hope to the current, on earth, living Saints of the Resurrection for their dead loved ones.
Notice also how Paul does not mention the Resurrection until He first mentions the Lord is bringing them with Him.
After that clear statement,
Paul says the dead in Christ Rise First.

Now if, Paul had said the dead in Christ Rise First and God will bring them with Christ - then you would be spot on.

Please refer to 1 Cor 15 Behold I show you a mystery.....

 

[ewq1938]

There are no dead in Heaven

They are called the dead:

1Pe_4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

The quick are those physically alive and dead are those not physically alive.

Also, please address that Paul knew he was getting a new body not his old dissolved one:

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: