How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

So in your mind you think lot and noah were gathered after the judgement

NO - that is in your mind, just as you said.

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath. 1 Thess 1:10

God patiently waited for Noah to complete the Ark, once inside, God shut the door and His wrath poured down.

We are to wait for His Coming - He is Coming for Two Outcomes -Same as His First Coming - Same as Noah

At His Coming the dead in Christ rise FIRST, after that the rapture and after that His wrath - just like Noah and Lot.

 

[Absolutely]

You changed some words to Pauls words which was not in order of his doctrine nor the truth of Scripture.

Here is what the Apostle Paul & Scripture proclaim: 1 Thess 1:10

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

1.) wait for His Coming
2.) the Resurrection
3.) delivered from the coming wrath = the wrath of the Lamb = Revelation 6:16

1 Thess 4: 13-18

The Apostle Paul again repeats his words:

the dead in Christ rise FIRST
after that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up

The Apostle Paul's teachings are focused on His Coming and the Resurrection - FIRST FIRST FIRST = always FIRST

Our LORD said: I AM the RESURRECTION - HE never said Iam the rapture - get it right and be Right.

Revelation never says pre-trib rapture - never - but it does state where and when the RESURRECTION occurs.

Note: When i say 'when' it is not referring to a day or hour which only the Father knows.

"""Revelation never says pre-trib rapture - never - but it does state where and when the RESURRECTION occurs."""

Yes it does.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Right out of rev.
Ch 3

 

[Absolutely]

NO - that is in your mind, just as you said.

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath. 1 Thess 1:10

God patiently waited for Noah to complete the Ark, once inside, God shut the door and His wrath poured down.

We are to wait for His Coming - He is Coming for Two Outcomes -Same as His First Coming - Same as Noah

At His Coming the dead in Christ rise FIRST, after that the rapture and after that His wrath - just like Noah and Lot.

amazing how you omit that noah was gathered pre flood......as is the church.

Equally amazing that in your mind he was gathered AFTER the flood.

False doctrine

 

[Absolutely]

You changed some words to Pauls words which was not in order of his doctrine nor the truth of Scripture.

Here is what the Apostle Paul & Scripture proclaim: 1 Thess 1:10

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

1.) wait for His Coming
2.) the Resurrection
3.) delivered from the coming wrath = the wrath of the Lamb = Revelation 6:16

1 Thess 4: 13-18

The Apostle Paul again repeats his words:

the dead in Christ rise FIRST
after that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up

The Apostle Paul's teachings are focused on His Coming and the Resurrection - FIRST FIRST FIRST = always FIRST

Our LORD said: I AM the RESURRECTION - HE never said Iam the rapture - get it right and be Right.

Revelation never says pre-trib rapture - never - but it does state where and when the RESURRECTION occurs.

Note: When i say 'when' it is not referring to a day or hour which only the Father knows.

Rev 14 has 3 gathering.

None are postrib.

You are oblivious to it.

 

[Absolutely]

that is all you defend.

" no pretrib rapture"

Which i make you go against the bible

 

[DavidTree]

"""Revelation never says pre-trib rapture - never - but it does state where and when the RESURRECTION occurs."""

Yes it does.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Right out of rev.
Ch 3

You left this out: I am coming

You also left out that there is one more church AFTER Philadelphia

You also missed what HE did say: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience.

No pre-trib rapture spoken or promised or said in Revelation chapters 1 thru 3 , not once.

You need to find out what it means to "keep the word of His patience"

KEY words to study: Keep/Kept/Keeping and Patience

 

[Laura798]

amazing how you and others JETTISON CONTEXT.... then use "context" to " prove" THE OPPOSITE of the actual words of Jesus where he VIVIDLY depicts the " taken/ left" AS THE RAPTURE.

HOW DO YOU AND OTHERS rip through that so blindly and try to convince others to reframe Gods word??????

A, please back up your comments with Scripture--you say He (Jesus) said--Apologetics must be based on scripture, not on 'he said, she said.'

 

[Absolutely]

You left this out: I am coming

You also left out that there is one more church AFTER Philadelphia

You also missed what HE did say: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience.

No pre-trib rapture spoken or promised or said in Revelation chapters 1 thru 3 , not once.

You need to find out what it means to "keep the word of His patience"

KEY words to study: Keep/Kept/Keeping and Patience

Nope
None of that stops what it says.
It says EXACTLY what it says.

 

[Laura798]

amazing how you and others JETTISON CONTEXT.... then use "context" to " prove" THE OPPOSITE of the actual words of Jesus where he VIVIDLY depicts the " taken/ left" AS THE RAPTURE.

HOW DO YOU AND OTHERS rip through that so blindly and try to convince others to reframe Gods word??????

and extremely odd that you would say we are 'reframing' God's word, when Scripture has been used to refute the argument presented. the thing i believe is being reframed is your own personal idealogy.

 

[DavidTree]

"""Revelation never says pre-trib rapture - never - but it does state where and when the RESURRECTION occurs."""

Yes it does.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Right out of rev.
Ch 3

Please make in BOLD the pre-trib

 

[DavidTree]

Nope
None of that stops what it says.
It says EXACTLY what it says.

And thus you speak a falsehood by adding to the word's of the LORD.

You have only proven that you do not fear God in this.
You have an idol before the Lord called pre-trib - this never came out of the mouth of God- anywhere in Scripture.
You only seek to believe what you want to believe even to the sinful extent of adding to and taking away from God's words.
Everyone who speaks pre-trib rapture is giving and speaking false prophecy (false prophets).

Just like in the days of the true Prophet Elijah - who was in great tribulation before the Lord "caught him up".

He cried out to the Lord : They have killed your servants and prophets and i alone am left

The false prophets were protected by Jezibel

 

[Laura798]

No, the real danger is that statement is completely unbiblical.

Jesus is NOT reigning over His enemies now - according to Scripture

To reign means to rule over people and have complete control. Look around at the world. ISIS is murdering Christians and harming the growth of the gospel. The world is full is false gods and religions and evil practices.

It is clear someone else reigns this wicked, morally corrupt world currently:

Joh 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Prince here doesn't mean second in command or something like we think in modern English, it means the ruler, the first in rank or power:

G758
a?´????
archo¯n
ar'-khone
Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.


G758
a?´????
archo¯n
Thayer Definition:
1) a ruler, commander, chief, leader
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: present participle of G757
Citing in TDNT: 1:488, 81

According to Christ, the ruler of this world was to come after Christ left. We know from Rev 12 that after He ascended there was a war in heaven and satan was cast to the Earth just as Christ said would happen. According to Jesus Christ himself, the one reigning/ruling the world after His ascension would be satan!

So when would Christ reign his enemies on the Earth?

Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?


Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


Luk 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luk 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.


Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Psa 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
Psa 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Psa 110:7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

So when does Christ leave the right hand of God in heaven and come to the Earth to defeat his enemies and rule in the midst of those enemies? The second coming of course. We also see this depicted in Rev 19.


Amill asks, "Isn't Christ's kingdom reigning on the Earth now?"

No.


His reign here begins when the 7th trump sounds.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This is the first time when Christ reigns literally over all kings and their kingdoms.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

His times would be specifically "the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ" at the 7th trump! That is when he is actively and defacto King of Kings reigning over all Earthly kingdoms and reigning over his enemies with a rod of iron.

Here is what we know:

1. Christ said satan is the ruler of the world.
2. Christ's reign will begin when he leaves the right hand of God in heaven and comes to the Earth.
2a. That is the second coming at the 7th trump.


John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Christ knew his kingdom and reign here starts when he returned at the 7th trump.



Joh_10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Does this mean Christ died and resurrected himself right at this moment or was that a future thing he had authority to do?

It is the same with ruling. He has the authority now but is not yet excercising that authority because he is waiting for the right time.


Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

So in comparison he received the knowledge that in the future he and his saints would rule over the nations with a rod of iron.
That particular reign did not start when John had this vision, which was somewhere around Ad 93 or so. Even AD 70, which I disagree with, is still many decades after the cross. If Christ is reigning now with a rod of iron why the decades of delay after the cross? That makes no logical sense.

But understand both of the things he said he received from the Father were related to the future, everything makes logical and scriptural sense and matches perfectly with each other.


Heb_2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Yes, Christ is ruling and reigning NOW! He defeated death at the cross and is CURRENTLY sitting at the right hand of the Father. If you do not believe He is currently reigning now, that also means you do not believe he was our high priest who died for our sins and that all are damned. There are so many things wrong with pre-mill--if you read this article it proves that it is false, because it denies Christ as both King and Priest and essentially we are all lost when he comes to judge the world.


Excerpt from https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...u-must-believe-if-you-are-a-premillennialist/

What You Must Believe If You Are a Premillenialist

"This was written long after the cross and even at that time not all things were put under Him. That doesn't happen until the second coming.

If the PM should question whether in fact Christ is presently ruling or reigning over every rule and authority and power, one need only read Ephesians 1:20-23 where precisely the same terms are used (arche, exousia, dunamis) in Paul’s description of what has been put in subjection under his feet (cf. also Colossians 1:13; 2:10,15).
The PM believes that death will continue on into the one-thousand year earthly reign of Christ and will in fact assume massive proportions at its close (see Rev. 20:9-10). But how can this be when Paul places the destruction of death at Christ’s second coming? The end of death at that time precludes the millennium of the PM, for according to the latter death still prevails."

 

[DavidTree]

If the PM should question whether in fact Christ is presently ruling or reigning over every rule and authority and power, one need only read Ephesians 1:20-23 where precisely the same terms are used (arche, exousia, dunamis) in Paul’s description of what has been put in subjection under his feet (cf. also Colossians 1:13; 2:10,15).
The PM believes that death will continue on into the one-thousand year earthly reign of Christ and will in fact assume massive proportions at its close (see Rev. 20:9-10). But how can this be when Paul places the destruction of death at Christ’s second coming? The end of death at that time precludes the millennium of the PM, for according to the latter death still prevails."

This is simple my Dear Sister in Christ - There are Two Deaths

Two Comings of the Lord - His First and Second (Return of the King)
Two Births of man - born of flesh and Born Again by the SPIRIT
Two Spirits - the spirit of Error and the Spirit of Truth which is the Holy Spirit
Two Israels - one is of the flesh and under His Wrath (nation Israel) and One is of the Spirit the True 12 Tribes of Israel -His Church
Two Temples - the earthly one which the Lord destroyed and His Body/Believers who are His dwelling Place
Two Jerusalems - one of the flesh in the Middle East and One Above where the Redeemed Belong to and Dwell
Two Roaming's of satan - one now on earth and one AFTER he is released from prison
Two RESURRECTIONS - the FIRST unto Immortal LIFE and the SECOND unto the Lake of Fire
Two Judgements - One before Christ for those who are His - one before God who are not redeemed
Two Books - the Book of LIFE and the book of Works - the book of works is cast into the Lake of Fire
Two Deaths - Physical and Eternal - Blessed is he who is part of the FIRST Resurrection = STAY OUT of the Second Death
Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST Resurrection. Over such the SECOND Death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. ( shall signifies it has not yet occurred)
Two Thousand Year Periods - the first one where man fell short and because of sin could not complete and the SECOND One with the King of kings
Two covenants - the Law which NO ONE is made Righteous and the Law of Christ which SAVES us
Two Sabbath Rests - one under the Law and the other found only in Christ, for God Rested on the Seventh Day
ONLY Two Choices - Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son

 

[Absolutely]

A, please back up your comments with Scripture--you say He (Jesus) said--Apologetics must be based on scripture, not on 'he said, she said.'

MAT 24 is written WITH context

Here it is. ( note that now Jesus shifts to " before the flood")
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

So we see the time frame. Prejudgement. The shift is now changed to prejudgement/ wrath/ tribulation.

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

He is coming preflood. No lie can change what is written.

Lets get even more context;
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Huh? That places the one taken/ left BEFORE THE FLOOD.

BEFORE THE FLOOD...THEN JESUS TOPS IT OFF AS NONE OTHER THAN THE PRETRIB RAPTURE
"42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

Vivid, vivid depiction of the pretrib rapture.

CONTEXT

 

[Laura798]

A, please back up your comments with Scripture--you say He (Jesus) said--Apologetics must be based on scripture, not on 'he said, she said.'

also, what you're saying doesn't make sense--CONTEXT MATTERS---How is that 'jettisoning' to say that? And how could quoting scripture be jettisoning? Really I am amazed at how much argumentation on this forum sounds like teenagers commenting on youtube instead of mature Christians. The attacking and getting angry should have no place in this forum. Also arguments that make no sense that are simply emotional instead of factual. Sheesh.

 

[Laura798]

MAT 24 is written WITH context

Here it is. ( note that now Jesus shifts to " before the flood")
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

So we see the time frame. Prejudgement. The shift is now changed to prejudgement/ wrath/ tribulation.

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

He is coming preflood. No lie can change what is written.

Lets get even more context;
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Huh? That places the one taken/ left BEFORE THE FLOOD.

BEFORE THE FLOOD...THEN JESUS TOPS IT OFF AS NONE OTHER THAN THE PRETRIB RAPTURE
"42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

Vivid, vivid depiction of the pretrib rapture.

CONTEXT

All your comments are novel to me--it's obvious you are trying to conform Scripture to fit your pre-trib narrative. You say the verse below means jesus is coming before the flood. What? Noah and 7 others were saved thru the ARK --they were in the MIDST of the FLOOD--They were NOT saved before it.

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man

 

[Absolutely]

and extremely odd that you would say we are 'reframing' God's word, when Scripture has been used to refute the argument presented. the thing i believe is being reframed is your own personal idealogy.

What verses refute mat 24?

Wasnt it you that said to invoke the word of God?

Show me how to cancel those words spoken by Jesus in mat 24. (using the bible).

Otherwise like you say, it is just your opinion.

 

[Absolutely]

also, what you're saying doesn't make sense--CONTEXT MATTERS---How is that 'jettisoning' to say that? And how could quoting scripture be jettisoning? Really I am amazed at how much argumentation on this forum sounds like teenagers commenting on youtube instead of mature Christians. The attacking and getting angry should have no place in this forum. Also arguments that make no sense that are simply emotional instead of factual. Sheesh.

Calm down and just show me a verse

 

[Nehemiah6]

Everyone who speaks pre-trib rapture is giving and speaking false prophecy (false prophets).

That is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. So now you have proven that you are the false prophet. Your claim that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture never came out of the mouth of God is also totally FALSE. And here is the proof from AD 30 at the Last Supper:

JOHN 14:1-3: THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE PROPHESIED BY CHRIST HIMSELF
Let not your heart be troubled = THERE IS NO CONNECTION TO TRIBULATION

ye believe in God, believe also in me = THIS IS GOD ADDRESSING YOU

In my Father's house are many mansions = HEAVEN IS GOD'S HOUSE AND IT HAS COUNTLESS MANSIONS FOR BELIEVERS

if it were not so, I would have told you = THIS IS GOD'S TRUTH. BELIEV IT

I go to prepare a place for you = CHRIST IS PRESENTLY PREPARING A PLACE FOR HIS SAINTS IN HEAVEN

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again = CHRIST WILL SURELY COME FOR HIS BRIDE AT THE RAPTURE

and receive you unto myself = CHRIST COMES PERSONALLY AT THE RAPTURE TO RECEIVE HIS SAINTS

that where I am, there ye may be also = THE SAINTS WILL GO TO HEAVEN AT THE RAPTURE

 

[DavidTree]

MAT 24 is written WITH context

Here it is. ( note that now Jesus shifts to " before the flood")
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

So we see the time frame. Prejudgement. The shift is now changed to prejudgement/ wrath/ tribulation.

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

He is coming preflood. No lie can change what is written.

Lets get even more context;
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Huh? That places the one taken/ left BEFORE THE FLOOD.

BEFORE THE FLOOD...THEN JESUS TOPS IT OFF AS NONE OTHER THAN THE PRETRIB RAPTURE
"42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

Vivid, vivid depiction of the pretrib rapture.

CONTEXT

NO NO NO - you are following in the steps of Mr Twister

i have always said this = we are not appointed to God's wrath = tribulation is not God's wrath

Shame Shame - your words to God's are not the SAME

Silly Rabbit - Truth is for Kids