How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

Runningman · Nov 28, 2021

I'll just stick with what the Bible says, and what learned and studied Koine Greek scholars agree with, that the "falling away" G646 is about apostasy. It's also used in Acts 21:21 to describe apostasy against Moses.

Internet forum-dwellers fiddling with Greek words to make them mean something other than what they do is both alarming and a red flag for a false doctrine. It does nothing to enhance the pre-trib rapture belief system and repulses those who respect the Bible.

walknlight · Nov 28, 2021

Hi!

Runningman said:

I pray that His Spirit helps you overcome your struggles....

Pray for me as I pray for you....

God bless!

Runningman · Nov 28, 2021

walknlight said:

Your prayer comes off as a passive-aggressive cover to assign me as struggling because you literally know nothing about me. You get to sound like a good Christian while your judgments emerge about me under the guise of proclaiming benediction. I see what you're doing.

Sipsey · Nov 28, 2021

Runningman said:

If you are secure in your faith, why worry about what others think.

walknlight · Nov 28, 2021

Hi again!

Runningman said:

Sorry you feel that way....

Still,
Pray for me as I pray for you...
God Bless!

Rondonmon · Nov 28, 2021

DavidTree said:

Firstly, you don't even understand what the LAST TRUM is, then whenever someone explains it with the Feasts which you seem to believe in, you ignore that FACTS sir. Listen one more time, try not to pretend you never heard this again, man up and admit when you are in error sir. The Last Trump refers to one of the 7 Feasts and the LAST TRUMP always ended the Harvest, it was the 100th Trumpet Blasts. Since the Church Age is referred unto as the Harvest/Pentecost, and comes AFTER Jesus fulfilled the 1.) Passover 2.) Unleavened Bread (Without sin) and the 3.) First-fruits or the first of the dead to be raised up. Thus when Jesus brings back the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, he placed the Disciples in place to go unto the whole world via the Gentiles and to Harvest would during the Church Age Harvest. The Feast of Weeks was this Harvest Period in the Jewish tradition/customs.

What always ended the Harvest? The Feast of Trumps (let's stop pretending you have not heard this from now on, lets man up and admit you were in error on the LAST TRUMP, which has ZERO to do with Judgment until you learn to admit when you are wrong sir you can never learn anything from God in full, he doesn't or CAN'T teach the know it all types. He told me that was my problem, He said "Ron, you guys already know everything". This was my breakthrough moment. The Feast of Trumps always ended the Harvest, the Jews sent out Two-witnesses to look for the New Moon which started the New Year, when they saw it they sounded 99 Trumps in 9 sets off 11 and the LAST TRUMP or 100th Trump thus Ended the Harvest (Church Age) and announced that of course, the Feast of Atonement and Tabernacles were both nigh at hand.

Israel needs to ATONE before the 70th week can end so says the Prophesy in Dan. 9:24-27, so the Jews Repent right before the coming Day of the Lord as Zechariah 13:8-9 says and Malachi 4:5-6 says, and then after God protects them fr 1260 days, Jesus shows up and Israel TABERNACLES (Means to DWELL with God) with Jess for 1000 years in Jerusalem. So, every Feast was a Holy Convocation (meaning Dress Rehearsal). All the Feasts thus are fulfilled, so let's quit pretending the Last Trump is a Judgment TRump, that is so bad it not even defensible anymore. Anyone still trying to defend that is living in la la land, you have to know better than that.

Now, we can go about answering the rest of the post, but clinging to that when you know better just makes me SMH.

DavidTree · Nov 28, 2021

Rondonmon said:

ALL the FEASTS are fulifilled in CHRIST - ALL of THEM - they are not fulfilled thru rebellion - Israel of the flesh.

Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’?= (Rondonmon)

Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest! And he who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit for eternal life, that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. For in this the saying is true: ‘One sows and another reaps.’ I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.

There is no such thing as 'the Church Age' - this is a man-made doctrine of error

There has always been one Israel of God - One Church/Congregation/Assembly that began in Genesis. Gal ch4 Rom 9:6

This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee. Psalm 22
A Psalm of Asaph. God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers. Psalm 81

For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” Matt 18:20

The Last Trump is blown at the Coming of the LORD - His Second Coming = Matt ch24 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor ch15

Rondonmon · Nov 28, 2021

DavidTree said:

Changing from one bible to the next changes nothing.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption(Sin Flesh) inherit incorruption.(Heaven) 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (Die then rest in the grave), but we shall all be changed(from Sin Flesh to a Spirit man where we can go to Heaven because CORRUPTION or Sin Flesh can not enter Heaven thus we have to DIE and leave our bodies via our Spirit Man)

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump(See Rev. 4:1 why do you think Jesus voice is described as a Trumpet Sound? He calls us home): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible(Sin Flesh) must put on corruption(Spirit Man), and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible(Sin Flesh) shall have put on corruption(Spirit Man), and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

In your bible verse perishable simply means THE DEAD shall be clothed in the Imperishable (Spirit man).

Those raised in Rev. 20:1-6 are ONLY the Martyrs of the 70th week who REFUSE the Mark of the Beast unto DEATH. READ IT F0R YOURSELF !!

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Church SEE Rev. 4:4) , and judgment was given unto them(Church) : and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is not the Dead in Christ being raised who died during the Chuch Age, a SIMPLE READING tells us that these are ONLY THOSE who refused the Mark of the Beast and then became Martyrs for Jesus because they REFUSED the Mark of the Beast. Do you know why my understanding always MATCHES? Because it is the truth, not some jibberish logic I learned from other men, but rather that which I allowed to Holy Spirit to teach me by EMPTYIMG MYSELF before the Lord God and saying simply TEACH ME, Lord.

I always laugh when people say Arrogant, arrogant, well if understanding God's truth is arrogant then I guess all the Prophets and Disciples were"ARROGANT" also, no doubt many were killed because of this truth they understood. The Changing is done at the same time as the Pre Trib Rapture, at the LAST TRUMP which ends the Gentile Church Age.

You are confused about the timing of all of your scriptures. Maybe one day you will admit the facts, the LAST TRUMP is one of the 7 Feasts, not a Judgment Trump, what's more important, saving face or learning?

1 Cor 15 is the Rapture which is the Resurrection, you just can't quite grasp that it seems, or either your pride will not allow you to come unto this truth. One day that very TRUTH is going to get into your brain one way or another, because all, of God's truths, will one day be KNOWN. Satan is really good at deception, no doubt.

DavidTree · Nov 28, 2021

Rondonmon said:

Changing from one bible to the next changes nothing.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption(Sin Flesh) inherit incorruption.(Heaven) 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (Die then rest in the grave), but we shall all be changed(from Sin Flesh to a Spirit man where we can go to Heaven because CORRUPTION or Sin Flesh can not enter Heaven thus we have to DIE and leave our bodies via our Spirit Man)

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump(See Rev. 4:1 why do you think Jesus voice is described as a Trumpet Sound? He calls us home): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible(Sin Flesh) must put on corruption(Spirit Man), and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible(Sin Flesh) shall have put on corruption(Spirit Man), and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

In your bible verse perishable simply means THE DEAD shall be clothed in the Imperishable (Spirit man).

Those raised in Rev. 20:1-6 are ONLY the Martyrs of the 70th week who REFUSE the Mark of the Beast unto DEATH. READ IT F0R YOURSELF !!

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Church SEE Rev. 4:4) , and judgment was given unto them(Church) : and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is not the Dead in Christ being raised who died during the Chuch Age, a SIMPLE READING tells us that these are ONLY THOSE who refused the Mark of the Beast and then became Martyrs for Jesus because they REFUSED the Mark of the Beast. Do you know why my understanding always MATCHES? Because it is the truth, not some jibberish logic I learned from other men, but rather that which I allowed to Holy Spirit to teach me by EMPTYIMG MYSELF before the Lord God and saying simply TEACH ME, Lord.

I always laugh when people say Arrogant, arrogant, well if understanding God's truth is arrogant then I guess all the Prophets and Disciples were"ARROGANT" also, no doubt many were killed because of this truth they understood. The Changing is done at the same time as the Pre Trib Rapture, at the LAST TRUMP which ends the Gentile Church Age.

You are confused about the timing of all of your scriptures. Maybe one day you will admit the facts, the LAST TRUMP is one of the 7 Feasts, not a Judgment Trump, what's more important, saving face or learning?

1 Cor 15 is the Rapture which is the Resurrection, you just can't quite grasp that it seems, or either your pride will not allow you to come unto this truth. One day that very TRUTH is going to get into your brain one way or another, because all, of God's truths, will one day be KNOWN. Satan is really good at deception, no doubt.

LIE #1 "This is not the Dead in Christ being raised who died during the Chuch Age, Rev ch 20"

LIE #2 "1 Cor 15 is the Rapture which is the Resurrection"

The Body of Christ are the Saints from Revelation chapter 1 to chapter 20 when they are Resurrected.

1 Cor ch15 : This is about the RESURRECTION . Paul never mentions the rapture because the RESURRECTION ocurs BEFORE the rapture.

This is CLEAR from the LORD - 1 Thess 4:13-18

There will be NO rapture until the RESURRECTION. - 1 Thess ch4 , 2 Thess ch2 , 1 Cor ch15 , Rev ch6, 7, 14, 19-20

Rondonmon · Nov 28, 2021

Absolutely said:

And that was also a LETTER, thus Paul was speaking about what sir? The Old Testament Prophets....THINK ABOUT IT, let that SINK IN. You are using an argument that favors me, and you think you made a beautiful argument, but the very writer of that letter was speaking about the Old Testament.

Take 2 Thess. 2, that is indeed about the Church being Raptured, but Paul is nitvery clear, he simply says when I was with you I told you these things, THUS people are confused because it is a LETTER and only those he told this certain thing knows for sure what he was referencing, in full, I know because I can understand it via the Holy Spirit, but it is made much more difficult, so much so that it becomes known by many as the Apostasy rather than the Rapture of the Church from this earth, Satan has SPUN this because it's not written plainly enough by Paul. All because Paul never meant it as "Thus Sith the Lord" or see he would have done what the prophets of old did and made it very, very clear, instead Paul refers the Thessalonians to what he taught them when he was with them, and we are all left in the dark as per unto hat that was. Holy Scripture can't leave people in the dark on anything like that. It was Pauls letters unto his Cngrefgation, that he never meant to be seen as scriptures, else he would have been more precise via his writings.

Absolutely said:

Don't compare Jesus with the Disciples, Jesus was seen in Daniel 12 as the Man in Linen, he was The Rock in the Wilderness who fed Israel, he was the I Am that I Am unto Moses. Give me a break.

Rondonmon · Nov 28, 2021

DavidTree said:

You said; "You need to be sorry you don't understand the weighted difference between a Letter to a congregation and a Pophet being told this is THUS SAITH THE LORD scriptures."

The weighted difference is this:

Paul, Peter, John, Matthew, Mark and Apostles of the LORD Jesus Christ

These men of God were filled with and directed by the HOLY SPIRIT beyond you or i as they were personally seen by the LORD and given direct Authority from the LORD = above the Prophets.

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Notice that there are three parts of the Foundation = Apostles, Prophets and Christ the Chief Cornerstone.

The Prophets were directed by the Holy Spirit to write/declare Him who was to Come.

The Apostles superscede the Prophets now/today because they are the Voice from Heaven for the New Covenant.

God has spoken in these Last Days to us thru the Son and the Son has delegated to the Apostles His words.

The writings of the Apostles are in accordance to the Will of God for the NT and the OT Prophets COMBINED.

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?
You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you!
For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.

Just as the Holy Spirit spoke and moved upon the Prophets, so also has HE moved upon the Apostles with even more weight and authority in their writings.

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

We now have, thru the Apostles of the LORD an even brighter light of Scripture to shine from Heaven unto the Path we are all must take to enter into Eternal Glory = with the LORD Himself leading the Way - AMEN

Letters were not THUS SAITH THE LORD, It's not even a debate. And I use those letters, but Pastors' job one is to bring their flock along unto FAITH. Prophets job 1 is to be 100 percent correct.

DavidTree · Nov 28, 2021

Rondonmon said:

YES they are and you have no authority to speak against them.

You are placing yourself in a position that the LORD has not placed you.

God desires us to know Him thru His Word which He spoke in days of Old thru the Prophets but has now spoken to us thru His Son.

On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets.
But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. Heb 1

His Son chose Apostles to carry forth His Doctrine and Words by the HOLY SPIRIT given to the Apostles.

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. John ch16

lamad · Nov 28, 2021

Rondonmon said:

And that was also a LETTER, thus Paul was speaking about what sir? The Old Testament Prophets....THINK ABOUT IT, let that SINK IN. You are using an argument that favors me, and you think you made a beautiful argument, but the very writer of that letter was speaking about the Old Testament.

Take 2 Thess. 2, that is indeed about the Church being Raptured, but Paul is nitvery clear, he simply says when I was with you I told you these things, THUS people are confused because it is a LETTER and only those he told this certain thing knows for sure what he was referencing, in full, I know because I can understand it via the Holy Spirit, but it is made much more difficult, so much so that it becomes known by many as the Apostasy rather than the Rapture of the Church from this earth, Satan has SPUN this because it's not written plainly enough by Paul. All because Paul never meant it as "Thus Sith the Lord" or see he would have done what the prophets of old did and made it very, very clear, instead Paul refers the Thessalonians to what he taught them when he was with them, and we are all left in the dark as per unto hat that was. Holy Scripture can't leave people in the dark on anything like that. It was Pauls letters unto his Cngrefgation, that he never meant to be seen as scriptures, else he would have been more precise via his writings.

Don't compare Jesus with the Disciples, Jesus was seen in Daniel 12 as the Man in Linen, he was The Rock in the Wilderness who fed Israel, he was the I Am that I Am unto Moses. Give me a break.

We can be quite sure Jesus did not tell Paul in a vision to write because it would become part of the New Testament that would then be added to the Old Testament. Paul probably had NO IDEA His writing would become part of the written word of God.

However, it did and is now a part of scripture - that we can use for doctrine. God has never said He would make scripture easy to understand. However, we have the Holy Spirit inside as our teacher.

lamad · Nov 28, 2021

DavidTree said:

That is very basic because before those alive are caught up, those who are dead will be resurrected.

However, the way you wrote "THE resurrection" makes it seem like there will be only one moment in time where someone or a group is resurrected.

Where you miss it: JESUS was resurrected. When? It will turn out to be around 2000 years before the church dead will be resurrected. Now we have TWO resurrections with nearly 2000 years between. However, around 7 years after the dead in Christ are resurrected, it will be time for the Old Testament saints to be resurrection. Their time will probably be at the 7th vial.
Then the Two Witnesses will be resurrected too. Do you know when their time is?
There will also be those beheaded that will be resurrected. Again, do you know when?

ewq1938 · Nov 28, 2021

lamad said:

Allow me to add:

Peter speaks of Paul's Epistles and says some people have a hard time understanding them as they do "the other scriptures".

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The scriptures are things written via inspiration from God and Paul's letters are also inspired as he was taught directly by God the Son.

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

There's a reason his letters are part of the bible...because they are inspired scripture. Being letters doesn't change anything.

lamad · Nov 28, 2021

Rondonmon said:

Changing from one bible to the next changes nothing.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption(Sin Flesh) inherit incorruption.(Heaven) 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (Die then rest in the grave), but we shall all be changed(from Sin Flesh to a Spirit man where we can go to Heaven because CORRUPTION or Sin Flesh can not enter Heaven thus we have to DIE and leave our bodies via our Spirit Man)

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump(See Rev. 4:1 why do you think Jesus voice is described as a Trumpet Sound? He calls us home): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible(Sin Flesh) must put on corruption(Spirit Man), and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible(Sin Flesh) shall have put on corruption(Spirit Man), and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

In your bible verse perishable simply means THE DEAD shall be clothed in the Imperishable (Spirit man).

Those raised in Rev. 20:1-6 are ONLY the Martyrs of the 70th week who REFUSE the Mark of the Beast unto DEATH. READ IT F0R YOURSELF !!

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Church SEE Rev. 4:4) , and judgment was given unto them(Church) : and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is not the Dead in Christ being raised who died during the Chuch Age, a SIMPLE READING tells us that these are ONLY THOSE who refused the Mark of the Beast and then became Martyrs for Jesus because they REFUSED the Mark of the Beast. Do you know why my understanding always MATCHES? Because it is the truth, not some jibberish logic I learned from other men, but rather that which I allowed to Holy Spirit to teach me by EMPTYIMG MYSELF before the Lord God and saying simply TEACH ME, Lord.

I always laugh when people say Arrogant, arrogant, well if understanding God's truth is arrogant then I guess all the Prophets and Disciples were"ARROGANT" also, no doubt many were killed because of this truth they understood. The Changing is done at the same time as the Pre Trib Rapture, at the LAST TRUMP which ends the Gentile Church Age.

You are confused about the timing of all of your scriptures. Maybe one day you will admit the facts, the LAST TRUMP is one of the 7 Feasts, not a Judgment Trump, what's more important, saving face or learning?

1 Cor 15 is the Rapture which is the Resurrection, you just can't quite grasp that it seems, or either your pride will not allow you to come unto this truth. One day that very TRUTH is going to get into your brain one way or another, because all, of God's truths, will one day be KNOWN. Satan is really good at deception, no doubt.

Do you know why my understanding always MATCHES? Because it is the truth, not some jibberish logic I learned from other men, but rather that which I allowed to Holy Spirit to teach me by EMPTYIMG MYSELF before the Lord God and saying simply TEACH ME, Lord. If we really believed all this, we would then expect everything you write to be 100% truth. However, that is not what we find.

lamad · Nov 28, 2021

DavidTree said:

There is no such thing as 'the Church Age' - this is a man-made doctrine of error

Hmm. Do you deny the trinity because "trinity" is not found?
Do you deny the rapture because "rapture" is not found?

Did you not read?

17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. (1 Corinthians 9) (Emphasis added.)

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (Ephesians 3) (Emphasis added.)

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (Colossians 1) (Emphasis added.)

Paul is talking about the church age or the age of grace. You can deny it all you want but who are you? It still exists but will soon end with the pretrib rapture. "time" will then be Day of the Lord. These are back to back events, with no time between. It is and will be church age but a moment after the rapture The Day of the Lord will have started.

ewq1938 · Nov 28, 2021

lamad said:

Correction, you are speaking of a pre-trib apostasia and post-trib believes in that as well.

lamad · Nov 28, 2021

Runningman said:

That is fine, but for those still struggling with 2 thes. 2, please exegete it for the rest.
Please explain how the man of sin is revealed in 3b, in light of verses 6-8.
Please explain who the restrainer is in light of Paul writing "and now you know..."
Please explain the parallelism.
Finally, show us where Paul includes his theme: the gathering.

lamad · Nov 28, 2021

ewq1938 said:

No, I was speaking of the church age or the age of Grace. Some don't like these titles.

How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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