How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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I will add one:
1) Resurrection (from a natural body brought back together from dust, then changed into a resurrection body at resurrection)
2) Rapture (the catching up of those alive and in Christ)
3) "the change" (Those alive and in Christ changed from a natural body into a resurrection body.
It is difficult for those dead in Christ to know if the dust is brought back together as a natural body or as a resurrection body. It will make little difference because in either case it will happen in an instant of time.
1) Resurrection (from a natural body brought back together from dust, then changed into a resurrection body at resurrection)
2) Rapture (the catching up of those alive and in Christ)
3) "the change" (Those alive and in Christ changed from a natural body into a resurrection body.
It is difficult for those dead in Christ to know if the dust is brought back together as a natural body or as a resurrection body. It will make little difference because in either case it will happen in an instant of time.
No, I have enough COMMON SENSE to know God is going to call the Dead and Living a the same time, the PROOF is that Paul tries to make it LESS THAN A SECOND in the difference of time, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, and you actually don't understand he was just trying to reassure those DOUBTING him. All you have to do is read both 1 and 2 Thessalonians to understand that was their great fear. EUREKA and Paul suddenly says, Hey guys, those Dead won't be left in the grave, as a matter of fact, they will be raised a 1/10 of a second before the living are taken....the point is you don't understand the difference between a letter of encouragement and "THUS SAITH THE LORD".
You need to be sorry you don't understand the weighted difference between a Letter to a congregation and a Pophet being told this is THUS SAITH THE LORD scriptures.
As a preacher of 35 years, one called to understand Prophecy, I am not looking for "your approval" tbh.
You need to be sorry you don't understand the weighted difference between a Letter to a congregation and a Pophet being told this is THUS SAITH THE LORD scriptures.
As a preacher of 35 years, one called to understand Prophecy, I am not looking for "your approval" tbh.
Well that's something since the Scripture is all i am adhering to without 'adding to and taking away' from God's words.
It seems you are making a joke.
Every time you paste a scripture, you add what you believe that scripture is saying. And what you believe does not align with all the end times scriptures.
Case in point: you can't get to the marriage and supper.
Case in point: You keep demanding an explicit verse to prove pretrib, but you have never provided an explicit verse proving the rapture to be posttrib. The truth is, there are no explicit verses stating what you demand, either proving pretrib or proving posttrib.
You may well be able to rhyme, but it would be far more important to understand the scriptures you paste.
Once again I would point out to you that John saw the great crowd, too large to number, in chapter 7, not in chapter 19. If you understand John's chronology, that would mean something to you.
It seems you are making a joke.
Every time you paste a scripture, you add what you believe that scripture is saying. And what you believe does not align with all the end times scriptures.
Case in point: you can't get to the marriage and supper.
Case in point: You keep demanding an explicit verse to prove pretrib, but you have never provided an explicit verse proving the rapture to be posttrib. The truth is, there are no explicit verses stating what you demand, either proving pretrib or proving posttrib.
You may well be able to rhyme, but it would be far more important to understand the scriptures you paste.
Once again I would point out to you that John saw the great crowd, too large to number, in chapter 7, not in chapter 19. If you understand John's chronology, that would mean something to you.
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Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant,
in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
#1.) the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ = FIRST = Revelation 20:1-6
#2.) the changing = transformation of death to Glorified Body = occurs in an instant, seconds or less
#3.) Perfect Harmony of Scripture from the Author = the Holy Spirit.
As demonstrated in: Matt ch24 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 2 Thess ch2 , 1 John ch2 Rev ch1-20 , Heb 9:28
Once again the Holy Spirit's main focus is the Resurrection - the rapture is not mentioned.
The entire focus of 1 Cor chapter 15 is the Resurrection from the Dead.
Why is this? Because it is the most important part of the completed Salvation to the LORD for us.
What few living Saints that remain unto His Second Coming is tiny compared to the Billions(Trillions?) who will be Raised from the Grave around the World.
PEACE
in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
#1.) the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ = FIRST = Revelation 20:1-6
#2.) the changing = transformation of death to Glorified Body = occurs in an instant, seconds or less
#3.) Perfect Harmony of Scripture from the Author = the Holy Spirit.
As demonstrated in: Matt ch24 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 2 Thess ch2 , 1 John ch2 Rev ch1-20 , Heb 9:28
Once again the Holy Spirit's main focus is the Resurrection - the rapture is not mentioned.
The entire focus of 1 Cor chapter 15 is the Resurrection from the Dead.
Why is this? Because it is the most important part of the completed Salvation to the LORD for us.
What few living Saints that remain unto His Second Coming is tiny compared to the Billions(Trillions?) who will be Raised from the Grave around the World.
PEACE
What you are using now is called 'defeated argument'.
Defeated Argument is a tactic of the opponent who knows that they have lost the fight of evidentiary hearing.
They have no power/evidence/authority to overcome your position.
Defeated, they can only move on a false accusatory premise which seeks to declare a stalemate.
Seeking to convince the audience/listener/jury that there is no clear evidence on either side of the issue.
The TRUTH however always prevails as the evidence is overwhelming in accordance to "It is Written."
It is Written: Matt ch24
Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
It is Written: 1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
It is Written: 2 Thess ch2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
It is Written: 1 John 2:18-19
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They departed from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
It is Written: 1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy.
It is Written: Revelation 6:9-11
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
It is Written: Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
It is Written: Hebrews 9:27-28
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
It is Written: 1 Corinthians 15:20-23
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
It is Written: James ch5
Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain.
You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!
My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience.
Indeed we count them blessed who endure.
You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.
But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “Yes” be “Yes,” and your “No,” “No,” lest you fall into judgment.
Defeated Argument is a tactic of the opponent who knows that they have lost the fight of evidentiary hearing.
They have no power/evidence/authority to overcome your position.
Defeated, they can only move on a false accusatory premise which seeks to declare a stalemate.
Seeking to convince the audience/listener/jury that there is no clear evidence on either side of the issue.
The TRUTH however always prevails as the evidence is overwhelming in accordance to "It is Written."
It is Written: Matt ch24
Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
It is Written: 1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
It is Written: 2 Thess ch2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
It is Written: 1 John 2:18-19
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They departed from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
It is Written: 1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy.
It is Written: Revelation 6:9-11
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
It is Written: Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
It is Written: Hebrews 9:27-28
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
It is Written: 1 Corinthians 15:20-23
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
It is Written: James ch5
Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain.
You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!
My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience.
Indeed we count them blessed who endure.
You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.
But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “Yes” be “Yes,” and your “No,” “No,” lest you fall into judgment.
You said; "You need to be sorry you don't understand the weighted difference between a Letter to a congregation and a Pophet being told this is THUS SAITH THE LORD scriptures."
The weighted difference is this:
Paul, Peter, John, Matthew, Mark and Apostles of the LORD Jesus Christ
These men of God were filled with and directed by the HOLY SPIRIT beyond you or i as they were personally seen by the LORD and given direct Authority from the LORD = above the Prophets.
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Notice that there are three parts of the Foundation = Apostles, Prophets and Christ the Chief Cornerstone.
The Prophets were directed by the Holy Spirit to write/declare Him who was to Come.
The Apostles superscede the Prophets now/today because they are the Voice from Heaven for the New Covenant.
God has spoken in these Last Days to us thru the Son and the Son has delegated to the Apostles His words.
The writings of the Apostles are in accordance to the Will of God for the NT and the OT Prophets COMBINED.
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?
You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you!
For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.
Just as the Holy Spirit spoke and moved upon the Prophets, so also has HE moved upon the Apostles with even more weight and authority in their writings.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
We now have, thru the Apostles of the LORD an even brighter light of Scripture to shine from Heaven unto the Path we are all must take to enter into Eternal Glory = with the LORD Himself leading the Way - AMEN
The weighted difference is this:
Paul, Peter, John, Matthew, Mark and Apostles of the LORD Jesus Christ
These men of God were filled with and directed by the HOLY SPIRIT beyond you or i as they were personally seen by the LORD and given direct Authority from the LORD = above the Prophets.
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Notice that there are three parts of the Foundation = Apostles, Prophets and Christ the Chief Cornerstone.
The Prophets were directed by the Holy Spirit to write/declare Him who was to Come.
The Apostles superscede the Prophets now/today because they are the Voice from Heaven for the New Covenant.
God has spoken in these Last Days to us thru the Son and the Son has delegated to the Apostles His words.
The writings of the Apostles are in accordance to the Will of God for the NT and the OT Prophets COMBINED.
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?
You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you!
For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.
Just as the Holy Spirit spoke and moved upon the Prophets, so also has HE moved upon the Apostles with even more weight and authority in their writings.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
We now have, thru the Apostles of the LORD an even brighter light of Scripture to shine from Heaven unto the Path we are all must take to enter into Eternal Glory = with the LORD Himself leading the Way - AMEN
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For those who insist that Revelation is [strictly] in chronological order - have you noticed that the marriage of the Lamb is AFTER the Wrath of God and the fall of Babylon / judgment-of-the-great-whore?
That's not exactly 'pre-trib', now is it?
"Food for thought..."
That's not exactly 'pre-trib', now is it?
"Food for thought..."
I will not be eating Her roasted meat as it is for the Birds = Vultures.
Was it really that much trouble to cook?
This was a Kosher Turkey from Farm Owners: Hannaniah, Mishael, Azariah.
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Was it really that much trouble to cook?
Never follow the instructions from Nebby: Heat oven to 7 times hotter then normal.
If you do you may get burned in the process.
Always wait for the Master Chef - HE will Come to Dinner as expected - never early, never late for HE loves His Date.
PERFECT - YES, Enoch who walked with God and was not for God took him - AMEN
Enoch is the foreshadow of CHRIST = Jude 1:14 Enoch the 7th from Adam
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Enoch came prior to the flood, faced off with fallen angels, was taken up to Heaven = Just as our LORD Jesus Christ.
What came next was great tribulation that the world had not seen since creation whereby only 8 souls were saved.
Just as our LORD said: Matt ch24
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
These THREE Prophets - NOAH , DANIEL an JOB all prophesy to us of Great Tribulation, enduring suffering and overcoming thru faith.
Enoch is the foreshadow of CHRIST = Jude 1:14 Enoch the 7th from Adam
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Enoch came prior to the flood, faced off with fallen angels, was taken up to Heaven = Just as our LORD Jesus Christ.
What came next was great tribulation that the world had not seen since creation whereby only 8 souls were saved.
Just as our LORD said: Matt ch24
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
These THREE Prophets - NOAH , DANIEL an JOB all prophesy to us of Great Tribulation, enduring suffering and overcoming thru faith.