How do I lose my SALVATION?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#41
#41
obedienttogod said:
Paul warned us and also John in the Revelation's warned us the in the last days there will be a great falling away. Peter claimed in his 2nd Epistle that some have misunderstood Paul's message and in turn distorted it. He warned it would lead to their destruction. Makes one think Peter knew about this belief in thinking we have a license to sin. I doubt he would warn us that we are distorting Paul's message (I can only assume the message of Grace since most know Paul by it) if it were not true.
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None of these things say people will lose salvation.

The great falling away is the loss of people in the church, Not because they lost salvation, But because the christians died and their children did not replace them, because they wanted nothing to do with God (wee see this happening today, with all the empty churhc buildings which are sitting there rotting)

If people misunderstand pauls message (anbd I agree they have) then they have never been saved, They have not lost it.

Who believes we have a license to sin? The people who are entrusting God in faith do not.. The people who have no faith in God and are either of those who think they say a prayer and magically they are saved no matter what (belief only, no repentance or faith) or those who think they have to work hard and water down the law so they fit into the law 9there faith is in self not God) and again, these people never had salvation they did not lose it.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#42
#42
Ignorun said:
But believers and the saved aren't cucumbers. We can still choose whom to serve or follow. A dog returns to its vomit. But not a cucumber. Can't choose.
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I see Peter's Epistles are a hot topic today. But there is a definite reason why Peter gave such a warning. It very well could mean that we have misunderstand Paul's message of Grace and distorted it. If that is true, how many souls are burning in hell thinking they had guaranteed salvation?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
#43
Demi777 said:
Well then apologize by sending me some cheetos and I will forgive.
I just burst into laugher because i could like imagine a cucumber becoming a person in white robes
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D1816EBD-7AB1-4199-B27A-1770350EDA71.gif
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#44
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
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#44
Ignorun said:
But believers and the saved aren't cucumbers. We can still choose whom to serve or follow. A dog returns to its vomit. But not a cucumber. Can't choose.
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Well, that just puts us in a pickle doesn't it? ;)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
#45
obedienttogod said:
I see Peter's Epistles are a hot topic today. But there is a definite reason why Peter gave such a warning. It very well could mean that we have misunderstand Paul's message of Grace and distorted it. If that is true, how many souls are burning in hell thinking they had guaranteed salvation?
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Or how many people think they were saved because of all the work they did, which will be told By Christ he never knew them?

it goes both ways.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#46
#46
eternally-gratefull said:
None of these things say people will lose salvation.

The great falling away is the loss of people in the church, Not because they lost salvation, But because the christians died and their children did not replace them, because they wanted nothing to do with God (wee see this happening today, with all the empty churhc buildings which are sitting there rotting)

If people misunderstand pauls message (anbd I agree they have) then they have never been saved, They have not lost it.

Who believes we have a license to sin? The people who are entrusting God in faith do not.. The people who have no faith in God and are either of those who think they say a prayer and magically they are saved no matter what (belief only, no repentance or faith) or those who think they have to work hard and water down the law so they fit into the law 9there faith is in self not God) and again, these people never had salvation they did not lose it.
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If we have actually misunderstood Paul and distorted his message, then we have misunderstood that we have guaranteed salvation. I am not saying we are losing our salvation, I am saying if we misunderstood the message, maybe we misunderstood we can sin as much as we want and still have a guarantee.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#48
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#48
obedienttogod said:
If this is towards me, I am asking these questions because of these 2 verses.

2 Peter 3:
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Peter claims we are distorting the message of Paul, maybe even his Grace message, and he continues warning it will bring destruction. If we have eternal salvation by understanding Paul's message, why is Peter claiming we could be distorting that message for our own desire which will actually bring us destruction, not eternal salvation?
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Ok just reading the whoe chapter Peters just saying some people are ignoring what Paul says and dont understand things so they are missing out on salvation message not that they are losing it. If we willfully ignore the gospel and go after a false one then destruction is the consequence of that. Paul is saying the same message of salvation that Jesus is saying, he was actually commissioned by Jesus himself as an apostle to share the gospel esp to Gentiles. Many Jews hearing him couldnt understand this...they were scoffers. Why would Jesus save the gentiles or heathens?

Many times Peter says be mindful. Dont ignore what God says, dont be led away by human errors. Remember the gospel thats been told to you by the apostles.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#49
#49
I believe in the abundant Grace of God, I believe in His undeniable Mercy, but Peter has me concerned that we could be distorting Paul's message. And if we have, then maybe the commit sin and ask for forgiveness routine is not so bad after all.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#50
#50
obedienttogod said:
If we have actually misunderstood Paul and distorted his message, then we have misunderstood that we have guaranteed salvation. I am not saying we are losing our salvation, I am saying if we misunderstood the message, maybe we misunderstood we can sin as much as we want and still have a guarantee.
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If you think this, then you have misunderstood paul.

Paul says we are sealed by the spirit UNTIL the day of Christ
Paul says we HAVE BEEN GIVEN an inheritance which is incorruptable and will never fade awy
Paul says we have BEEN PERFECED FOREVER while we are in the process off being sanctified
Paul says he who began a good work in us WILL COMPLETE it UNTIL the DAY OF CHRIST

And i have just started to show how paul says we are assured, There are many more, but this is enough

The fact is,, You can not be GOOD ENOUGH (not sin enough) to continue to earn salvation. You need to take the focus of how good you think you are, and realise who sinful you really are (pauls messag to the jews Who also thought they could be good enough)
 
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Ignorun

Active member
#51
Dec 18, 2018
180
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#51
BenFTW said:
Well, that just puts us in a pickle doesn't it? ;)
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If you say so. But it means I war against error, against the fiery darts of the wicked one, have to put on the full armor of God.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#52
#52
Lanolin said:
Ok just reading the whoe chapter Peters just saying some people are ignoring what Paul says and dont understand things so they are missing out on salvation message not that they are losing it. If we willfully ignore the gospel and go after a false one then destruction is the consequence of that. Paul is saying the same message of salvation that Jesus is saying, he was actually commissioned by Jesus himself as an apostle to share the gospel esp to Gentiles. Many Jews hearing him couldnt understand this...they were scoffers. Why would Jesus save the gentiles or heathens?

Many times Peter says be mindful. Dont ignore what God says, dont be led away by human errors. Remember the gospel thats been told to you by the apostles.
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Hmmm, have you read where Jesus said He was here to save us by the Grace of God?
Because I can only find where He claims it's by the Mercy of God. Matthew 28:19 is Jesus instructing His Disciples to go into all nations (which means Jew/Gentile nations) and teach them. Since Jesus never taught Grace specifically, He taught Mercy, maybe we have distorted Paul's message after all.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#53
#53
eternally-gratefull said:
If you think this, then you have misunderstood paul.

Paul says we are sealed by the spirit UNTIL the day of Christ
Paul says we HAVE BEEN GIVEN an inheritance which is incorruptable and will never fade awy
Paul says we have BEEN PERFECED FOREVER while we are in the process off being sanctified
Paul says he who began a good work in us WILL COMPLETE it UNTIL the DAY OF CHRIST

And i have just started to show how paul says we are assured, There are many more, but this is enough

The fact is,, You can not be GOOD ENOUGH (not sin enough) to continue to earn salvation. You need to take the focus of how good you think you are, and realise who sinful you really are (pauls messag to the jews Who also thought they could be good enough)
Click to expand...


I understand what Paul said. I also understand that we are distorting Paul's message. I am just looking at the happy medium here and trying to find the silver lining.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#54
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
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#54
obedienttogod said:
I believe in the abundant Grace of God, I believe in His undeniable Mercy, but Peter has me concerned that we could be distorting Paul's message. And if we have, then maybe the commit sin and ask for forgiveness routine is not so bad after all.
Click to expand...
obedienttogod said:
I see Peter's Epistles are a hot topic today. But there is a definite reason why Peter gave such a warning. It very well could mean that we have misunderstand Paul's message of Grace and distorted it. If that is true, how many souls are burning in hell thinking they had guaranteed salvation?
Click to expand...
I would suggest reading Hebrews and learning about Jesus' role as your High Priest (mediator between you and God) to understand why it is that you're forgiven of your sins and justified before God. This will ease your worries. When you understand how the blood of Christ has granted you the remission of your sins, you can rejoice at the verse that says, "where remission of these (sin) is, there is no more offering for sin."

Consider God's record of His Son.

1 John 5:9-12 King James Version (KJV)

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#55
#55
obedienttogod said:
I understand what Paul said. I also understand that we are distorting Paul's message. I am just looking at the happy medium here and trying to find the silver lining.
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There is no happy medium my friend, thats the problem with many in the church, they want to appease poeple. Not just take paul at his word. Thus we have all these different gospel churches all with different means to heaven.

If Paul said those things, we should believe him, and place our faith in those things. If we can not do that, Then we shoudl not change the word. We shoudl be asking ourselves why we can not agree with paul.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
#56
obedienttogod said:
Hmmm, have you read where Jesus said He was here to save us by the Grace of God?
Because I can only find where He claims it's by the Mercy of God. Matthew 28:19 is Jesus instructing His Disciples to go into all nations (which means Jew/Gentile nations) and teach them. Since Jesus never taught Grace specifically, He taught Mercy, maybe we have distorted Paul's message after all.
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Do you understand what Grace is? Grace is a result of mercy. You can not have grace apart from Mercy
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#57
#57
BenFTW said:
I would suggest reading Hebrews and learning about Jesus' role as your High Priest (mediator between you and God) to understand why it is that you're forgiven of your sins and justified before God. This will ease your worries. When you understand how the blood of Christ has granted you the remission of your sins, you can rejoice at the verse that says, "where remission of these (sin) is, there is no more offering for sin."

Consider God's witness of His Son.

1 John 5:9-12 King James Version (KJV)

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
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I am assuming by your name (Ben) that you are a man.

Brother,
I am not disagreeing with any assessment towards the Grace of God. I am not denying what I see Paul claim, nor what I have read in Hebrews. But if we have missed the mark and understand what we think Paul is saying, and not actually fully understanding, then as Peter claimed, we are distorting Paul's message.

I do not live on assumptions in my life here on earth. When I buy milk I expect it to be milk and not sour because the date on it indicates it is good milk. I am just doing the same now with the message of Paul.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
#58
#58
eternally-gratefull said:
There is no happy medium my friend, thats the problem with many in the church, they want to appease poeple. Not just take paul at his word. Thus we have all these different gospel churches all with different means to heaven.

If Paul said those things, we should believe him, and place our faith in those things. If we can not do that, Then we shoudl not change the word. We shoudl be asking ourselves why we can not agree with paul.
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AMEN,
But, logic still indicates if we sin, God is not pleased even though He knows as humans we will sin. And logic also indicates if we sin abundantly, there has to be a limit.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#59
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#59
Ignorun said:
But believers and the saved aren't cucumbers. We can still choose whom to serve or follow. A dog returns to its vomit. But not a cucumber. Can't choose.
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Our following and serving don't keep us His Children. His shed Blood, the NEW Creation we are, and adoption as sons of God do that.

Stop relying on yourself to remain saved. A DOG returns to his vomit. Not a Child of God. I'm not a dog. Dogs don't BECOME Children, and then revert back to dogs.
 
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obedienttogod

Guest
#60
#60
eternally-gratefull said:
Do you understand what Grace is? Grace is a result of mercy. You can not have grace apart from Mercy
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Bingo!

That's is how I view it myself. Grace is the result of Mercy. And since we agree, just how far can we push God's Mercy by believing we have basically a license to sin?
 
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