Hermeneutics: Interpreting Scripture

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Jul 31, 2013
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It certainly seems to compare to allowing men to choose. I guess some of the discussion has been whether or not having to let them go can include assisting them to go where they want to go.
my intuition -- thinking of what is good hermeneutic vs poor, yay, on thread topic hahaha - - is to immediately ask, do we see this behavior in the Bible, and then, if we do, collect every OT and NT reference together, lay them all out on the table like puzzle pieces, and start looking for patterns.

one of the first things coming to mind is Judas.
do we see evidence Christ actively tried and failed to convert Him?
"have I not chosen you, and one of you is a devil?"
"what you have to do, do quickly"

:coffee::unsure:
 
Jul 31, 2013
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one of the first things coming to mind is Judas.
do we see evidence Christ actively tried and failed to convert Him?
"have I not chosen you, and one of you is a devil?"
"what you have to do, do quickly"

:coffee::unsure:

@studier i notice you questioned @GWH over his usage of the novel term 'omnilove' - - i looked over this, but it's a fair point. those who went before us recognize three 'omnis' concerning God: omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence.

my reasoning was that i have no argument with 'God is love' - - i suspected rather that our friends in the discussion are using their personal, human ideas about love, rather than letting the scripture inform us what true love is.

what is worth investigating is whether God, in His love, patiently allows those who hate Him to go on hating Him, or if He actively frustrates their efforts to hate Him at every step. i think in the case of Judas that's clear: He did not seek to prevent him.

Revelation 22:11​
He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Biased towards what you deem right reasoning.

God is ruling a creation of good and bad. He desires the good but has allowed the bad and allows men to choose good and bad. Based upon who He is He must deal with the bad as well as the good.

Earlier I said I think you're unbalancing perfectly balanced divine essence.

Now I think you're inserting desire where it does not belong and thereby creating the illogical conclusion:
  • Where does it say or who has said that Jesus did not desire people to LGW so He taught in parables?
    • There is also a subtle nuance of this that can be discussed.
Or you're misconstruing the interaction of desire and attributes, and thereby creating the illogical conclusion.
  • Because He is Righteous and Just and is dealing with bad, with sin, it His will/desire to display His wrath (Rom9:22), meaning His will is in conformance to the outworking of His attributes. Paul is dealing with this in the same context of His hardening of Pharaoh and of the Potter and the Clay.
  • Jesus can will that all LGW while at the same time submitting to what He sees the Father doing and thereby to the Father's will to do what provides greater understanding to those who have not closed their eyes and simultaneously what does not provide understanding to those who have closed their eyes.
I'd like to explain this better, but I think you're creating a faulty premise and trying to reach a logical conclusion.
Re "Biased towards what you deem right reasoning.": You are equally such, but logical thinking is not a bad bias.

Re "Where does it say or who has said that Jesus did not desire people to LGW so He taught in parables?": Not I.

Jesus agrees with God's will--and so do I!
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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Re "Biased towards what you deem right reasoning.": You are equally such, but logical thinking is not a bad bias.

Re "Where does it say or who has said that Jesus did not desire people to LGW so He taught in parables?": Not I.

Jesus agrees with God's will--and so do I!
Looks to me like you've conceded the point. We Christians all desire all men to be saved. We all desire all men to LGW. We know some men will choose not to be saved and will not LGW. We desire God deal with them according to His perfect will according to His Perfect Righteousness and Justice and harden them and judge them accordingly as it is clear from His Word this is what He does. We all desire to have what God desires - a land where righteousness dwells. We trust Him for this telos.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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@studier i notice you questioned @GWH over his usage of the novel term 'omnilove' - - i looked over this, but it's a fair point. those who went before us recognize three 'omnis' concerning God: omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence.

my reasoning was that i have no argument with 'God is love' - - i suspected rather that our friends in the discussion are using their personal, human ideas about love, rather than letting the scripture inform us what true love is.

what is worth investigating is whether God, in His love, patiently allows those who hate Him to go on hating Him, or if He actively frustrates their efforts to hate Him at every step. i think in the case of Judas that's clear: He did not seek to prevent him.

Revelation 22:11​
He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.

I get the application but think we need to be careful with such things. Here are a couple more "God is" statements:
For our God is a consuming fire (Heb. 12:29- NKJ) - the verb is elided which could even be intensifying this statement.​

God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. (1 Jn. 1:5 NKJ)​
These are just a few but enough to ask how many "omnis" do we want to start making up? With just these 2 we can balance the omnilove with omnilight & omnijustice. We can go back and say He's omnijealous, etc... And maybe we have to do this because inserting omnilove requires some balance, so we don't start forgetting His other attributes. As you mention, so we don't misunderstand His love.

Your Rev22:11 mention is a good one which I was going to repeat from you elsewhere, so now am doing so.
 

lrs68

Active member
Dec 30, 2024
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Interpretation is simply hearing God reveal the hidden truth.

On this forum however, interpretation is how one personally believes.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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I get the application but think we need to be careful with such things. Here are a couple more "God is" statements:
For our God is a consuming fire (Heb. 12:29- NKJ) - the verb is elided which could even be intensifying this statement.​

God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. (1 Jn. 1:5 NKJ)​
These are just a few but enough to ask how many "omnis" do we want to start making up? With just these 2 we can balance the omnilove with omnilight & omnijustice. We can go back and say He's omnijealous, etc... And maybe we have to do this because inserting omnilove requires some balance, so we don't start forgetting His other attributes. As you mention, so we don't misunderstand His love.

Your Rev22:11 mention is a good one which I was going to repeat from you elsewhere, so now am doing so.

Actually, there is scriptural justification for affirming God as omnitemporatl, omnilove, omnilight/truth and omnijustness/fire:

3. Omnipotence is connected with omnitemporality (in RV 1:18): “I am the Apha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Romans 1:20 refers to God’s “eternal power”, and Jeremiah 10:10&16 names God “the Lord Almighty”, who is true, living and eternal.

In addition to the omni-attributes related to power, Paul referred to God’s “nature” (in RM 1:20), which may be described in three ways: love, truth and justice. These often are called the moral attributes of God.

5. The Bible says that God is love and true love comes from God (1JN 4:7-21, RM 5:5), so volitional creatures or souls can love only by reflecting, imitating or cooperating with the Creator’s love. Although the Bible speaks of God hating Esau (ML 1:3) and other evil people (HS 9:15), Jesus’ teaching of love for enemies (MT 5:44) reveals that God loves all creatures including Satan but hates their sinful choices.

It seems logical to assume that the all-loving God would create the best possible world or one in which the greatest percentage of persons may attain ultimate joy (1TM 2:3-4, 2PT 3:9). God may have created all possible kinds of worlds simultaneously: the world of dead matter, the world of living plants, the world of intelligent animals, and the world of morally accountable souls/humans. God’s world/way is best.

6. The Bible teaches that God is truth (JN 1:17, 8:40, 15:26, 17:17), so all truth is from God and manifests God’s Spirit. If any atheists are truthseekers, then they are not far from the kingdom of God (MK 12:34, 2THS 2:10, JN 18:37), because Jesus promised that those who seek will find (LK 11:9&13). Of course, if the truth is that there is no God or heaven, then what we believe is no more significant than the ideology of a rock or some other evolved collection of atoms (ECC 3:20)! Truth or God’s Word is represented in the Bible as light (JN 1:1-9), which also signifies God’s glory (LK 2:9).

7. The Bible also teaches that God is justness or righteousness (RM 3:25-26, 9:14, 2THS 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (JSH 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so. Another synonym for justness is goodness (IS 5:16).

Atheists have a negative or evil conception of God, which may be caused or reinforced by the words and deeds of those who claim to be theists (RM 2:24, 2PT 2:2). Who would want to believe in such a God? Rather than reject a caricature of God, an atheist should imagine the most perfect, loving and just God that he/she can, and choose to disbelieve in that benevolent Being, if good reason to do so can be found. God is NOT demonic!

What a person believes about the moral attributes of God affects how he or she interprets God’s Word in the Bible, which is called “hermeneutics”.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Title, Post #, Scripture - The Parable of the (Hidden) Treasure (#146), MT 13:44

Meaning – field = world, man = soul seeking salvation, treasure = KOH/salvation; Learning how to be saved is worth every earthly thing.

Purpose – (unstated but per v.34-35) To fulfill PS 78:2 re parables used to reveal what has been hidden, which is the Gospel per TOP #2 (God offers salvation to the Gentiles, cf. ACTS 13:47, IS 49:6, EPH 3:1-9).

Interpretation(s):

1. Jesus did not want some souls to find the hidden treasure and understand that salvation is more valuable than material wealth.

2. Jesus hoped that everyone would find the hidden treasure and value salvation more than material wealth.


Title, Post #, Scripture - The Parable of the Pearl (#146), MT 13:45

Meaning – pearls = teachings, merchant = soul seeking best teaching, pearl of great value = God’s teaching re His POS.

Purpose – (per v.34-35) To fulfill PS 78:2 re parables used to reveal what has been hidden.

Interpretation(s): Same as in the Parable of the Treasure.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
1,509
331
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Actually, there is scriptural justification for affirming God as omnitemporatl, omnilove, omnilight/truth and omnijustness/fire:

3. Omnipotence is connected with omnitemporality (in RV 1:18): “I am the Apha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Romans 1:20 refers to God’s “eternal power”, and Jeremiah 10:10&16 names God “the Lord Almighty”, who is true, living and eternal.

In addition to the omni-attributes related to power, Paul referred to God’s “nature” (in RM 1:20), which may be described in three ways: love, truth and justice. These often are called the moral attributes of God.

5. The Bible says that God is love and true love comes from God (1JN 4:7-21, RM 5:5), so volitional creatures or souls can love only by reflecting, imitating or cooperating with the Creator’s love. Although the Bible speaks of God hating Esau (ML 1:3) and other evil people (HS 9:15), Jesus’ teaching of love for enemies (MT 5:44) reveals that God loves all creatures including Satan but hates their sinful choices.

It seems logical to assume that the all-loving God would create the best possible world or one in which the greatest percentage of persons may attain ultimate joy (1TM 2:3-4, 2PT 3:9). God may have created all possible kinds of worlds simultaneously: the world of dead matter, the world of living plants, the world of intelligent animals, and the world of morally accountable souls/humans. God’s world/way is best.

6. The Bible teaches that God is truth (JN 1:17, 8:40, 15:26, 17:17), so all truth is from God and manifests God’s Spirit. If any atheists are truthseekers, then they are not far from the kingdom of God (MK 12:34, 2THS 2:10, JN 18:37), because Jesus promised that those who seek will find (LK 11:9&13). Of course, if the truth is that there is no God or heaven, then what we believe is no more significant than the ideology of a rock or some other evolved collection of atoms (ECC 3:20)! Truth or God’s Word is represented in the Bible as light (JN 1:1-9), which also signifies God’s glory (LK 2:9).

7. The Bible also teaches that God is justness or righteousness (RM 3:25-26, 9:14, 2THS 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (JSH 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so. Another synonym for justness is goodness (IS 5:16).

Atheists have a negative or evil conception of God, which may be caused or reinforced by the words and deeds of those who claim to be theists (RM 2:24, 2PT 2:2). Who would want to believe in such a God? Rather than reject a caricature of God, an atheist should imagine the most perfect, loving and just God that he/she can, and choose to disbelieve in that benevolent Being, if good reason to do so can be found. God is NOT demonic!

What a person believes about the moral attributes of God affects how he or she interprets God’s Word in the Bible, which is called “hermeneutics”.
Then I think you should consider all the omni's when you consider the purposes for parables. It's not just omnilove.