Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning

[Hevosmies]

Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against His church.

But name me one church that isnt in apostasy today?

Pentecostals - apostasy
Baptists - apostasy
Reformed - apostasy
Catholics - LOL
Orthodox - dontknowanythingaboutthem but they look like catholics so most likely no bueno
Non-denoms - who knows they are all just baptists or pentecostals that broke off from the mainline,so apostasy
Mormons - cult
JW - cult
Methodists - apostasy
Anglicans - massive apostasy
Episcopalians - is this even a church today?
Lutheran - massive apostasy
Confessional Lutherans - these guys are doing alright.
Independent fundamental baptists - these guys are doing alright too.

So which is the Church that Jesus founded? The answer is probably, all born again believers, from among all churches. Thats the most common answer i've heard. But I wish there was just a church called "The right Church" (recognized by name) that everyone could just join and gates of hell wouldnt prevail against it

 

[preacher4truth]

The natural man is a man who considers the things of God foolish and he can not understand them because they are spiritually discerned. I agree with you here.

Now, you said faith and repentance are given when one is regenerated. When one is given faith, they are declared righteous before God, fully justified. And seeing that faith is a fruit of the Spirit, as Galatians 5:22 clearly states, and faith come from hearing the gospel of Jesus, as Romans 10:17 says, no one is regenerate outside the proclamation of the gospel.

Exactly! That is when we receive eternal salvation; In time.

We become the sons of God here in time, we were not sons prior to this, nor were we converted prior; John 1:11-13.

Surely the PB will have the "his own" in verse 11 eternally converted, but neither context nor the balance of Scripture support that error. We aren't converted prior to the work of God via the Spirit through the word. God has always used means to eternally save his elect; 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

 

[preacher4truth]

Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against His church.

But name me one church that isnt in apostasy today?

Pentecostals - apostasy
Baptists - apostasy
Reformed - apostasy
Catholics - LOL
Orthodox - dontknowanythingaboutthem but they look like catholics so most likely no bueno
Non-denoms - who knows they are all just baptists or pentecostals that broke off from the mainline,so apostasy
Mormons - cult
JW - cult
Methodists - apostasy
Anglicans - massive apostasy
Episcopalians - is this even a church today?
Lutheran - massive apostasy
Confessional Lutherans - these guys are doing alright.
Independent fundamental baptists - these guys are doing alright too.

So which is the Church that Jesus founded? The answer is probably, all born again believers, from among all churches. Thats the most common answer i've heard. But I wish there was just a church called "The right Church" (recognized by name) that everyone could just join and gates of hell wouldnt prevail against it

You forgot "Deformed" Baptists specifically.

They don't waterboard babies like Presbies so they're OK.

I'd say they aren't steeped in any apostasy that I'm aware of. But then we'd have to fine tune what that means.

But, God has his remnant.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The natural man is a man who considers the things of God foolish and he can not understand them because they are spiritually discerned. I agree with you here.

Now, you said faith and repentance are given when one is regenerated. When one is given faith, they are declared righteous before God, fully justified. And seeing that faith is a fruit of the Spirit, as Galatians 5:22 clearly states, and faith come from hearing the gospel of Jesus, as Romans 10:17 says, no one is regenerate outside the proclamation of the gospel.

Regenerated means being made alive spiritually. The natural man did not have access to the gospel except by way of regeneration. We may be trying to split frog hairs here, but you understand where I stand. The good thing about it is, at least the way I perceive it, that we are both going to enter heaven by God's grace, whether we agree on the scriptures or not. When we are regenerated it gives us the ability to understand the gospel. We all start out as babes in Christ and our faith increases as we hear and come unto a knowledge of the gospel message. This is my understanding of what the scriptures teach.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Exactly! That is when we receive eternal salvation; In time.

We become the sons of God here in time, we were not sons prior to this, nor were we converted prior; John 1:11-13.

Surely the PB will have the "his own" in verse 11 eternally converted, but neither context nor the balance of Scripture support that error. We aren't converted prior to the work of God via the Spirit through the word. God has always used means to eternally save his elect; 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

You are saying by your interpretation of John 12, that the natural man receives him before he is regenerated and then he gave them power to BECOME the sons of God. I thought you said that the natural man could not discern spiritual things until he was regenerated. 2 Timothy 2:8-10 - Read on down to verse 13 and tell me how you interpret it.

 

[Hevosmies]

You are saying by your interpretation of John 12, that the natural man receives him before he is regenerated and then he gave them power to BECOME the sons of God. I thought you said that the natural man could not discern spiritual things until he was regenerated. 2 Timothy 2:8-10 - Read on down to verse 13 and tell me how you interpret it.

You keep repeating this same thing

Preacher is a calvinist. THEREFORE he believes that this happens:

1. Billy Bob is regenerated by God
2. God sends someone to tell Billy Bob the gospel.
3. BECAUSE Billy Bob was regenerated by God, he is no longer the natural man to which you keep making reference to and THEREFORE Billy Bob believes the gospel and is saved.

Did you get it?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You keep repeating this same thing

Preacher is a calvinist. THEREFORE he believes that this happens:

1. Billy Bob is regenerated by God
2. God sends someone to tell Billy Bob the gospel.
3. BECAUSE Billy Bob was regenerated by God, he is no longer the natural man to which you keep making reference to and THEREFORE Billy Bob believes the gospel and is saved.

Did you get it?

You are pretty funny.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are...

No, no. Stop skipping these posts where you make false claims. I addressed this to show you're wrong and making up false accusations, you need to own up and answer them.

You said you want civil discussion, then you pull this?

Answer the below and find out that I never made the statement you claim I made about you:

See you're not following along brother.

I never said you made that statement.

Please reread what was stated. I'm not sure how you concluded that I claimed you said that? Come on brother, I was quite clear. Read it again?

Please, get on the right page. I'm not sure if you're being forthcoming here as it is beyond me how you think I claimed you said it. Are you just trying anything to make it look like I've falsely accused you?

I'll be waiting.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are saying by your interpretation of John 12, that the natural man receives him before he is regenerated and then he gave them power to BECOME the sons of God. I thought you said that the natural man could not discern spiritual things until he was regenerated. 2 Timothy 2:8-10 - Read on down to verse 13 and tell me how you interpret it.

I never made such a claim that the natural man can receive these truths. It isn't my problem that you cannot discern plain truths of Scripture. It is all Soli Deo Gloria and all the work of God in regenerating and converting through the Gospel to eternal salvation; John 5:39-40.

You're a broken record of false teaching and false accusations, day in, day out and continue to repeat yourself over and over to ad nauseam.

I'm fully aware of the glorious truths of John 1:13 and will teach you this at some other point after you finish clearing up your many false accusations.

Thanks.

 

[preacher4truth]

You keep repeating this same thing

Preacher is a calvinist. THEREFORE he believes that this happens:

1. Billy Bob is regenerated by God
2. God sends someone to tell Billy Bob the gospel.
3. BECAUSE Billy Bob was regenerated by God, he is no longer the natural man to which you keep making reference to and THEREFORE Billy Bob believes the gospel and is saved.

Did you get it?

Yes, he keeps repeating the same thing...lol!

Sadly a lot of it is false whether it be accusations or his teachings.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I never made such a claim that the natural man can receive these truths. It isn't my problem that you cannot discern plain truths of Scripture. It is all Soli Deo Gloria and all the work of God in regenerating and converting through the Gospel to eternal salvation; John 5:39-40.

You're a broken record of false teaching and false accusations, day in, day out and continue to repeat yourself over and over to ad nauseam.

I'm fully aware of the glorious truths of John 1:13 and will teach you this at some other point after you finish clearing up your many false accusations.

Thanks.

I see that you avoided the all caps on "TO BECOME" future tense. As I expected, you discarded John 1:13. I ask sackclothandashes this question and he has failed to answer, maybe you can give me an answer; If you are eternally saved by understanding the gospel, where does the infant baby go when it dies in infancy before it can understand the gospel?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Regenerated means being made alive spiritually. The natural man did not have access to the gospel except by way of regeneration. We may be trying to split frog hairs here, but you understand where I stand. The good thing about it is, at least the way I perceive it, that we are both going to enter heaven by God's grace, whether we agree on the scriptures or not. When we are regenerated it gives us the ability to understand the gospel. We all start out as babes in Christ and our faith increases as we hear and come unto a knowledge of the gospel message. This is my understanding of what the scriptures teach.

Yes, regenerated means being made alive. The moment someone is made alive they are given faith and repentance(these are given at the moment regeneration takes place) and are saved.

Now, Galatians 5:22 says faith is a fruit of the Spirit...we both agree here.

Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the gospel, the word of Jesus.

Romans 5:1 clearly says we are justified(declared righteous before God) by this very same faith that 1) comes by hearing the gospel and 2) is a fruit of the Spirit.

You have undermined your whole belief system when you admitted faith and repentance are given at the very moment one is regenerated my friend.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I see that you avoided the all caps on "TO BECOME" future tense. As I expected, you discarded John 1:13. I ask sackclothandashes this question and he has failed to answer, maybe you can give me an answer; If you are eternally saved by understanding the gospel, where does the infant baby go when it dies in infancy before it can understand the gospel?

I did answer you. The Bible does not explicitly state one way or the other their eternal state. Many use 2 Samuel 12 as proof they are ushered into heaven, but I see what David was saying as him grieving the loss of his child and one day would be buried with him.

 

[preacher4truth]

I ...

Still waiting on you to clear up your false accusations. I have to say you're one of the most deceitful and dishonest persons I've met that claims to be converted.

Clean up your false accusations then I will proceed.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

You are saying by your interpretation of John 12, that the natural man receives him before he is regenerated and then he gave them power to BECOME the sons of God. I thought you said that the natural man could not discern spiritual things until he was regenerated. 2 Timothy 2:8-10 - Read on down to verse 13 and tell me how you interpret it.

No he did not say that my friend. John 1:13 states those who received Him were not born of the flesh(by Israeli lineage), nor by the will of man, but of God. Verse 13 qualifies those who received Him in verse 12. Only those who receive(s) Him are those Him gave birth to via Spiritual regeneration. And those He regenerates are regenerated via the word of God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, regenerated means being made alive. The moment someone is made alive they are given faith and repentance(these are given at the moment regeneration takes place) and are saved.

Now, Galatians 5:22 says faith is a fruit of the Spirit...we both agree here.

Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the gospel, the word of Jesus.

Romans 5:1 clearly says we are justified(declared righteous before God) by this very same faith that 1) comes by hearing the gospel and 2) is a fruit of the Spirit.

You have undermined your whole belief system when you admitted faith and repentance are given at the very moment one is regenerated my friend.

The moment they are made alive spiritually then they are given the ability to discern spiritual things. No Spirit, no discernment. being born of the Spirit is the determinant factor of eternal salvation. We are babes in Christ when we are newly born spiritually and coming unto a knowledge of the truth of the gospel is a process brought about by hearing the gospel preached, and growing in faith. The Apostles did not understand the fullness of the gospel until after they had received the Holy Ghost after Jesus had ascended. You never did answer my question; If hearing and believing the gospel brings about eternal salvation, where do infants that die before they are old enough to understand the gospel go? To heaven, or to hell? We were made eternally justified by Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, in so much, that God said he looks upon us as holy and without blame, as far as our eternal security is concerned. And that our sins are as far away from him as the east is from the west. I consider that being made just in a covenant relationship with God. What is your discernment on 2 Tim 2:13? If you would consider Eph 2:14 as being in context with Romans 5:1, For Jesus is our peace who hath made both one , and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us and goes on to say that was by his death, burial, and ressurection.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No he did not say that my friend. John 1:13 states those who received Him were not born of the flesh(by Israeli lineage), nor by the will of man, but of God. Verse 13 qualifies those who received Him in verse 12. Only those who receive(s) Him are those Him gave birth to via Spiritual regeneration. And those He regenerates are regenerated via the word of God.

I think you may be overlooking the fact of the natural man, "being yet dead in sins" when he was regenerated.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I did answer you. The Bible does not explicitly state one way or the other their eternal state. Many use 2 Samuel 12 as proof they are ushered into heaven, but I see what David was saying as him grieving the loss of his child and one day would be buried with him.

The bible does plainly state that when God regenerates a person, whether an infant or a grown up, they are YET dead in sins when regeneration takes place, which means they had nothing to do with making themselves alive. It was all by God's grace (unmerited favor).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, regenerated means being made alive. The moment someone is made alive they are given faith and repentance(these are given at the moment regeneration takes place) and are saved.

Now, Galatians 5:22 says faith is a fruit of the Spirit...we both agree here.

Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the gospel, the word of Jesus.

Romans 5:1 clearly says we are justified(declared righteous before God) by this very same faith that 1) comes by hearing the gospel and 2) is a fruit of the Spirit.

You have undermined your whole belief system when you admitted faith and repentance are given at the very moment one is regenerated my friend.

I suppose that you believe that all who are regenerated do believe the gospel, then what is your interpretation of 2 Tim 2:13?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I suppose that you believe that all who are regenerated do believe the gospel, then what is your interpretation of 2 Tim 2:13?

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

"We" means Christians and the context makes that clear. There are times when Christians fail to believe God or Scripture. That does not mean that they are unregenerate, but simply failing to believe. And the next verse presents situations when Christians dispute over certain things in Scripture rather than believe them: "...that they strive not about words to no profit..."

We will find this right here on CC. Some will say that because the words "trinity" or "rapture" are not found in the English Bibles, those doctrines are not true. Some will say that because the phrase "pretribulation rapture" is not found in the Bible that is not true.
Well these Christians "believe not".