Gospel Confusion...

[Ouch]

I don't know about your sins, but mine were washed away by the Blood of Christ Jesus the moment I believed in His death, burial and resurrection. It was also in that moment Holy Spirit filled me. All that charismatic mumbo-jumbo out there is for those who have the stomach for it. It was ALL Him, and none of me or anything I may do as a work.

Ephesians 2:5-9
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved;
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So, if one chooses to boast of their works of baptism for their salvation, then that's on them, not me. I will not be held responsible for them following after a different Gospel than that preached by Paul.

You have the freedom to add to God's word what is not in the text, and that's on you, not me or anyone else. Systematic study shows to the Bible student that diminishing of some things that, although commonplace during the early stages of God demonstrating His Power through the Gospels, He did change various things through time and events, just like the eventual fall of Israel spoken by Jesus in Luke 13. That was a change that delayed what was supposed to be at hand for them at that time.

MM

When JESUS died on the cross he died FOR EVERYONES sins, does that now mean NO ONE IS IN SIN? Does that mean we don't need to do nothing to get rid of them???

If that is the case, we don't need ANY of the bible after the book of Matthew.

So you really think Paul gave a different message, even as I shared Acts 19 proving it didn't change!!

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

As you can see, Paul is speaking to HIS CHURCH in Ephesus. NOT THE UNSAVED.

Can you show me HOW YOU got rid of your sins PLEASE.

What do you do with what Paul said in
Romans 6:3-4
King James Version
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Have you spoken in tongues? What do you do with what Paul says in
1 Corinthians 14
King James Version
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church

It continues.

What did you learn from them, were you NOW thinking you need to be baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost?

 

[Musicmaster]

When JESUS died on the cross he died FOR EVERYONES sins, does that now mean NO ONE IS IN SIN? Does that mean we don't need to do nothing to get rid of them???

If that is the case, we don't need ANY of the bible after the book of Matthew.

I have no idea where you're getting this stuff that has no similarity to what I said.

So you really think Paul gave a different message, even as I shared Acts 19 proving it didn't change!!

Paul addressed this:

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul did not say that other gospel was false nor of the devil, but only that it was another; obviously not intended for the Gentiles and Jews who were under the Gospel of Grace. The Kingdom Gospel preached by the Judaizers who were troubling the Galatians, they were to be accursed for disrupting the work of Paul and the Gospel he had preached to the Galatians.

For those who might claim that the Judaizers were preaching a false Gospel, I will have to point them to this:

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

Those under the Kingdom Gospel were zealous for the Law, so what made it wrong what those Judaizers were doing was to disrupt another man's work:

Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Paul was very keen about not building where it was not his place to build, but the Judaizers did not have that sensibility. Those Judaizers were not of the eleven, nor sent by them, even though those very Judaizers stood right there among the eleven in Acts 15.

What do you do with what Paul said in
Romans 6:3-4
King James Version
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The same thing I do with this:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Baptism, then was not an element of salvation and was not an element Jesus sent Paul out to preach about nor to perform on a grand scale as if that work were a part of salvation, which it was not and still is not.

Have you spoken in tongues?

Nope, and I don't want to unless it becomes expedient on the basis of the Lord wanting me to witness to someone who doesn't speak ancient Hebrew, Greek or English.

What do you do with what Paul says in
1 Corinthians 14
King James Version
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church

It continues.

What did you learn from them, were you NOW thinking you need to be baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost?

I have been filled with Holy Spirit from the moment I believed Paul's Gospel. I don't have to speak in tongues, raise the dead, prophesy or anything else to prove it.

You sound like what we hear from the charismatic circles who hold to things long since diminished. My faith is not in what things they did back then being functional within me today. If the Lord wants me to do those things, then He will empower me to do so, for He alone is Sovereign over all His Power and to whom He so chooses to give it. You are as powerless as me, even when pretending to speak in alleged tongues that I've heard so many manic charismatics try to do when in fact they were/are only yammering in random syllables and guttering gibberish.

Are there some genuine miracles of that magnitude happening today? Perhaps, but only when the Lord gives it. Claiming to have it is as powerless and meaningless to me as anything could ever be. I don't lay claim to gifts of operation so much as I boast about Christ and His ability to empower whomsoever He assigns such.

MM

 

[Ouch]

I have no idea where you're getting this stuff that has no similarity to what I said.



Paul addressed this:

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul did not say that other gospel was false nor of the devil, but only that it was another; obviously not intended for the Gentiles and Jews who were under the Gospel of Grace. The Kingdom Gospel preached by the Judaizers who were troubling the Galatians, they were to be accursed for disrupting the work of Paul and the Gospel he had preached to the Galatians.

For those who might claim that the Judaizers were preaching a false Gospel, I will have to point them to this:

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

Those under the Kingdom Gospel were zealous for the Law, so what made it wrong what those Judaizers were doing was to disrupt another man's work:

Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Paul was very keen about not building where it was not his place to build, but the Judaizers did not have that sensibility. Those Judaizers were not of the eleven, nor sent by them, even though those very Judaizers stood right there among the eleven in Acts 15.



The same thing I do with this:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Baptism, then was not an element of salvation and was not an element Jesus sent Paul out to preach about nor to perform on a grand scale as if that work were a part of salvation, which it was not and still is not.



Nope, and I don't want to unless it becomes expedient on the basis of the Lord wanting me to witness to someone who doesn't speak ancient Hebrew, Greek or English.



I have been filled with Holy Spirit from the moment I believed Paul's Gospel. I don't have to speak in tongues, raise the dead, prophesy or anything else to prove it.

You sound like what we hear from the charismatic circles who hold to things long since diminished. My faith is not in what things they did back then being functional within me today. If the Lord wants me to do those things, then He will empower me to do so, for He alone is Sovereign over all His Power and to whom He so chooses to give it. You are as powerless as me, even when pretending to speak in alleged tongues that I've heard so many manic charismatics try to do when in fact they were/are only yammering in random syllables and guttering gibberish.

Are there some genuine miracles of that magnitude happening today? Perhaps, but only when the Lord gives it. Claiming to have it is as powerless and meaningless to me as anything could ever be. I don't lay claim to gifts of operation so much as I boast about Christ and His ability to empower whomsoever He assigns such.

MM

I just asked you HOW DO YOU GET RID OF YOUR SINS!!!

OR DON'T WE HAVE TO?

SCRIPTURE PLEASE.

 

[Musicmaster]

I just asked you HOW DO YOU GET RID OF YOUR SINS!!!

OR DON'T WE HAVE TO?

SCRIPTURE PLEASE.

We don't get rid of our sins.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Water baptism doesn't save us because it is a work. Ceremonial traditions of works within churchianity don't save us.

So, what part of this are you not understanding from the clear language of scripture, without injecting stuff that's simply not there?

What part of unmerited favor (grace) through faith are you not grasping?

MM

 

[Ouch]

We don't get rid of our sins.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Water baptism doesn't save us because it is a work. Ceremonial traditions of works within churchianity don't save us.

So, what part of this are you not understanding from the clear language of scripture, without injecting stuff that's simply not there?

What part of unmerited favor (grace) through faith are you not grasping?

MM

Since sin will not enter Heaven, how does that work?

 

[Musicmaster]

Since sin will not enter Heaven, how does that work?

We who will inhabit Heaven as our dwelling place will be separated from the unbelievers at the rapture. That's God's doing, so what's your point?

MM

 

[Ouch]

We who will inhabit Heaven as our dwelling place will be separated from the unbelievers at the rapture. That's God's doing, so what's your point?

MM

We will be seperated in the end.

JESUS followers will go to heaven and anyone who refuses to follow him or obey him will be Hell bound.

I like asking questions to make people think, it's not about ME at all we all have our own walk with him.

JESUS is VERY clear in John 3:5 we have to be born of water and of sprit, and Acts 2:38 clarifies that.

Sin WILL NOT enter Heaven matter a fact look at these verses.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

You think Paul preached a different message, if he did why does he speak of the purpose of baptism in Romans 6? Why does he speak of being filled with the Holy Ghost and the gifts that come with it in 1 Cor 14?

Your walk is between YOU AND HIM, one day you will be looking is HIS eyes (NOT PAULS) and HE will judge you with HIS WHOLE book.

PLEASE look at all of it,

1 Corinthians 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs's and our's:

You can see Paul is speaking to HIS church NOT THE UNSAVED.

DOES these verse give you specific instructions ON HOW TO BE SAVED???

WHAT JUST READ THEM????

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

VERSE 1, WHAT GOSPEL DID HE PREACH TO THEM??? WAS YOU THERE DID YOU HEAR IT???? WHAT GOSPEL DID THEY RECEIVE? WHAT GOSPEL DO THEY STAND ON!!!

ALL IN LOVE.

 

[John146]

You think Paul preached a different message, if he did why does he speak of the purpose of baptism in Romans 6? Why does he speak of being filled with the Holy Ghost and the gifts that come with it in 1 Cor 14?

There is no water baptism in Romans 6. Baptism is not a synonym for water. Some people see water every time baptism is mentioned, and they see baptism every time water is mentioned. There are seven baptisms in the Bible. See (Matt. 3:10-13) for three of them. Baptize means to immerse, but not necessarily by water! (Matt. 3:11).

Baptized into Christ...immersed into Christ by believing the gospel. No water needed.

 

[Ouch]

There is no water baptism in Romans 6. Baptism is not a synonym for water. Some people see water every time baptism is mentioned, and they see baptism every time water is mentioned. There are seven baptisms in the Bible. See (Matt. 3:10-13) for three of them. Baptize means to immerse, but not necessarily by water! (Matt. 3:11).

Baptized into Christ...immersed into Christ by believing the gospel. No water needed.

Romans 6 is talking about baptism.

Any chance you back up what you say.

"immersed into Christ by believing the gospel"

Scripture please.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I myself really like to keep things simple.

If you don't think that being water baptized to get rid of our sins today.
HOW DO WE GET RID OF OUR SINS TODAY?
Are we no longer born in sin?
Is sin permitted in Heaven?
I will add Paul was baptized in JESUS name, why wouldn't he tell others also?

Today HOW DO we get reborn? Keep in mind we have to USE ALL of his word, can't leave out any books or chapters.

“I will add Paul was baptized in JESUS name, why wouldn't he tell others also?”

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The apostle Paul

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. ……Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, brethren,how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? ….Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, ( see Colossians 2 below ) the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

blotting out the handwriting of ordinances ( we died to the law in Christs death through baptism ) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul was a revelator he was t called to baptize people but he was called to reveal the doctrines to the Church for instance , the doctrine of baptism into Christ Jesus for remission of sins and circumcision of the flesh removal of sins of the flesh ect taught above there or even a new identity not born of flesh but of faith

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭

Not only his death but also his resurrection it’s why we are buried beneath the water in Jesus name and then Raised up from the water also on his name

“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s like being invited into the ark we just hear and believe and walk in . Baptism isn’t a work it’s a blessing and gift from God tbat promises remission of sins in his name. If we believed what Paul taught about it everyone would agree on baptism but many avoid it as they do most of his letters

paup taught more about baptism and what it means than anyone in the Bible all we really have to do is listen and not already know it’s wrong before we hear it

We know God has given baptism in Jesus name for repentance and remission of sins …..it’s plain and clear but many don’t believe it so it needs to be eliminated from the doctrine

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There is no water baptism in Romans 6. Baptism is not a synonym for water. Some people see water every time baptism is mentioned, and they see baptism every time water is mentioned. There are seven baptisms in the Bible. See (Matt. 3:10-13) for three of them. Baptize means to immerse, but not necessarily by water! (Matt. 3:11).

Baptized into Christ...immersed into Christ by believing the gospel. No water needed.

yeah what did Philip know

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35

What did Peter know

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

those silly apostles using “water “baptism but there are many baptisms though right Paul must be talking about a different baptism ….into Christ other than lol baptism in Jesus name for remission of sins …..

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul couldn’t be talking about remission of sins in Christ no

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s just baptism in Jesus name for remission of sins Paul’s role was to explain it in detail and depth not eliminate the doctrine of baptism into Christ …..

we should all try to agree on what we find to be true on the Bible . The apostles were baptizing in water , Paul was just one of them an apostle , he wasn’t teaching a different gospel or a different baptism he was revealing doctrine about things like baptism for remission of sins not creating a different way

 

[Ouch]

“I will add Paul was baptized in JESUS name, why wouldn't he tell others also?”

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The apostle Paul

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. ……Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, brethren,how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? ….Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, ( see Colossians 2 below ) the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

blotting out the handwriting of ordinances ( we died to the law in Christs death through baptism ) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul was a revelator he was t called to baptize people but he was called to reveal the doctrines to the Church for instance , the doctrine of baptism into Christ Jesus for remission of sins and circumcision of the flesh removal of sins of the flesh ect taught above there or even a new identity not born of flesh but of faith

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭

Not only his death but also his resurrection it’s why we are buried beneath the water in Jesus name and then Raised up from the water also on his name

“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s like being invited into the ark we just hear and believe and walk in . Baptism isn’t a work it’s a blessing and gift from God tbat promises remission of sins in his name. If we believed what Paul taught about it everyone would agree on baptism but many avoid it as they do most of his letters

paup taught more about baptism and what it means than anyone in the Bible all we really have to do is listen and not already know it’s wrong before we hear it

We know God has given baptism in Jesus name for repentance and remission of sins …..it’s plain and clear but many don’t believe it so it needs to be eliminated from the doctrine

You are DA man!! No idea why people think what they think. Can only guess following other men and will fight until the end even thought it's down the wrong road. Makes me think of John 3:3 ALOT. GOD BLESS YOU.

 

[GWH]

You are DA man!! No idea why people think what they think. Can only guess following other men and will fight until the end even thought it's down the wrong road. Makes me think of John 3:3 ALOT. GOD BLESS YOU.

At the moment of conversion/repentance or accepting Christ Jesus as Lord (Acts 20:21), Jesus’ Holy Spirit (HS) enters the convert’s heart (Rev. 3:20), plugging the person into the power of God, which moment is called “baptism by the Spirit” (1Cor. 12:13). Confusion may arise from the fact that Paul says there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5), but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the HS (Matt. 3:11, John 1:26-33, Acts 1:5). Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are harmonized if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the HS. (Most Bibles have a footnote for Mark 16:9-20 saying that the passage is not a reliable or well-attested part of the NT canon, so it is problematic to cite v.16 as requiring water baptism for salvation along with drinking poison or handling asps as signs of being saved.)

Again, at the moment of repentance/acceptance, God’s HS enters believers’ spiritual hearts (Rev. 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (Rom. 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (Col. 1:18), which is called spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-8) or baptism (1Cor. 12:13). Paul referred to the comparable moment for Abraham as spiritual circumcision. Instead of commanding water baptism for salvation, Paul said in one place (Rom. 10:9-10) that a convert should confess “with your mouth” in order to be saved, even though elsewhere (Eph. 2:8-9) he taught that one is saved by faith.

Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. Matt. 3:13-15, Acts 2:38). Although Paul did not command baptism, he administered it (in Acts 16:33, 18:8, 19:5 & 1Cor. 1:14-16) even though he said Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1Cor. 1:17). IOW, Paul’s focus was on preaching (spirit baptism) and he probably left the water baptizing to his assistants.

The outward evidence that someone is Spirit-filled (Eph. 5:18) or walking with God is the manifestation of the fullness of Christ (Eph. 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit, which consists of such attributes as those listed in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (John 13:35, 1John 4:7-21), because “love” sums up the moral character of God (1John 4:7-8). He did NOT say “…if you are water baptized.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You are DA man!! No idea why people think what they think. Can only guess following other men and will fight until the end even thought it's down the wrong road. Makes me think of John 3:3 ALOT. GOD BLESS YOU.

Lol I don’t know what DA means but ok lol

i think what I think because of the scriptires I share with my thoughts though that’s why I share those and talk about them 😉

 

[Pilgrimshope]

At the moment of conversion/repentance or accepting Christ Jesus as Lord (Acts 20:21), Jesus’ Holy Spirit (HS) enters the convert’s heart (Rev. 3:20), plugging the person into the power of God, which moment is called “baptism by the Spirit” (1Cor. 12:13). Confusion may arise from the fact that Paul says there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5), but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the HS (Matt. 3:11, John 1:26-33, Acts 1:5). Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are harmonized if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the HS. (Most Bibles have a footnote for Mark 16:9-20 saying that the passage is not a reliable or well-attested part of the NT canon, so it is problematic to cite v.16 as requiring water baptism for salvation along with drinking poison or handling asps as signs of being saved.)

Again, at the moment of repentance/acceptance, God’s HS enters believers’ spiritual hearts (Rev. 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (Rom. 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (Col. 1:18), which is called spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-8) or baptism (1Cor. 12:13). Paul referred to the comparable moment for Abraham as spiritual circumcision. Instead of commanding water baptism for salvation, Paul said in one place (Rom. 10:9-10) that a convert should confess “with your mouth” in order to be saved, even though elsewhere (Eph. 2:8-9) he taught that one is saved by faith.

Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. Matt. 3:13-15, Acts 2:38). Although Paul did not command baptism, he administered it (in Acts 16:33, 18:8, 19:5 & 1Cor. 1:14-16) even though he said Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1Cor. 1:17). IOW, Paul’s focus was on preaching (spirit baptism) and he probably left the water baptizing to his assistants.

The outward evidence that someone is Spirit-filled (Eph. 5:18) or walking with God is the manifestation of the fullness of Christ (Eph. 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit, which consists of such attributes as those listed in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (John 13:35, 1John 4:7-21), because “love” sums up the moral character of God (1John 4:7-8). He did NOT say “…if you are water baptized.”

“is called “baptism by the Spirit” (1Cor. 12:13).”

Here’s how the spirit baptized someone

“Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-36, 38-39‬ ‭NIV‬‬

at he spirit is in the people who were baptizing them in Jesus name for remission of sins …..the spirit of God works through men willing to obey him like Peter or Philip above . There’s no other baotism by the spirit he is in the ones he sent to baptize in Jesus name for remission of sins baptism is baptism receiving the Holy Ghost is what John referred to as being baptized with the spirit.

Peter had just been filled with the Holy Ghost

“Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. ( he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost )

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

Peter replied, ( by the Holy Ghost in him ) “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins.

And you will receive the gift of ( be baptized with ) the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:33, 36-38‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s not a formula we receive the holy ghost because we believe , we get baptized because we believe he died for our sins to remit them. Receiving the spirit is what John meant by “you’ll be baptized with the spirit by the lord after me “

““I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

just before Jesus ascended to heaven

“On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:

“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭NIV‬‬

then after it has been fulfilled oeter explains it

“Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:33, 38‬ ‭NIV‬‬

you don’t have to get baptized first the spirit comes because we believe the gospel but the doctrine of baptism for remission of sins in his name doesnt change

“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.

For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 46-48‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We know from acts 2 it’s for remission of sins and acts 8 and ten it’s in water. There’s only one baptism what John spoke of was receiving the spirit from Jesus when he ascended

 

[Ouch]

At the moment of conversion/repentance or accepting Christ Jesus as Lord (Acts 20:21), Jesus’ Holy Spirit (HS) enters the convert’s heart (Rev. 3:20), plugging the person into the power of God, which moment is called “baptism by the Spirit” (1Cor. 12:13). Confusion may arise from the fact that Paul says there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5), but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the HS (Matt. 3:11, John 1:26-33, Acts 1:5). Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are harmonized if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the HS. (Most Bibles have a footnote for Mark 16:9-20 saying that the passage is not a reliable or well-attested part of the NT canon, so it is problematic to cite v.16 as requiring water baptism for salvation along with drinking poison or handling asps as signs of being saved.)

Again, at the moment of repentance/acceptance, God’s HS enters believers’ spiritual hearts (Rev. 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (Rom. 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (Col. 1:18), which is called spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-8) or baptism (1Cor. 12:13). Paul referred to the comparable moment for Abraham as spiritual circumcision. Instead of commanding water baptism for salvation, Paul said in one place (Rom. 10:9-10) that a convert should confess “with your mouth” in order to be saved, even though elsewhere (Eph. 2:8-9) he taught that one is saved by faith.

Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. Matt. 3:13-15, Acts 2:38). Although Paul did not command baptism, he administered it (in Acts 16:33, 18:8, 19:5 & 1Cor. 1:14-16) even though he said Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1Cor. 1:17). IOW, Paul’s focus was on preaching (spirit baptism) and he probably left the water baptizing to his assistants.

The outward evidence that someone is Spirit-filled (Eph. 5:18) or walking with God is the manifestation of the fullness of Christ (Eph. 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit, which consists of such attributes as those listed in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (John 13:35, 1John 4:7-21), because “love” sums up the moral character of God (1John 4:7-8). He did NOT say “…if you are water baptized.”

"At the moment of conversion/repentance or accepting Christ Jesus as Lord"

That's all the further I got. How do you think we get reborn? Do we need to do anything?

Since JESUS says in John 3:5 we have to be born of water and spirit to enter I would like to know how you think we are reborn.

Be great with scripture proving you point without any questions.

Like Acts 2:38 and John 3:5 are very clear.

 

[GWH]

"At the moment of conversion/repentance or accepting Christ Jesus as Lord"

That's all the further I got. How do you think we get reborn? Do we need to do anything?

Since JESUS says in John 3:5 we have to be born of water and spirit to enter I would like to know how you think we are reborn.

Be great with scripture proving you point without any questions.

Like Acts 2:38 and John 3:5 are very clear.

Scriptures on how to be reborn (God’s Requirement for Salvation)
[stated in terms of faith (F) and works (W)]

From Matthew

1. Repent (4:17, F),
2. Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
3. Be righteous (5:20, W)
4. Love your enemies (5:44, W)
5. Serve God (6:24&33, W)
6. Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
7. Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
8. Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
9. Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
10. Love Jesus (10:37, F)
11. Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
12. Have no doubt (11:6, F)
13. Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
14. Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
15. Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
16. Understand (13:23, F)
17. Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
18. Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
19. Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
20. Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
21. Forgive others (18:35, W)
22. Give to the poor (19:21, W)
23. Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
24. Yield fruit (21:43, W)
25. Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
26. Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
27. Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
28. Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
29. Be ready (24:44, F&W)
30. Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
31. Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
32. Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)

More from Mark

33. Accept the kingdom (10:15, F)
34. Believe the Gospel (16:16, F)
35. Receive baptism (16:16, W)

From Luke

1. Be hated (6:22-23, W)
2. Lend (6:35, W)
3. Judge not (6:37, W)
4. Invite the poor to your party (14:13-14, W)
5. Use wealth wisely (16:9, W)
6. Stand firm (21:19, F)

From John

1. Be born again (3:3&6, F)
2. Come to the light (3:21, F)
3. Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)
4. Drink living water (4:14, F)
5. Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
6. Do right (5:29, W)
7. Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
8. Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
9. Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
10. Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
11. Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
12. Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
13. Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
14. Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
15. Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
16. Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
17. Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)

From Acts

1. Call on the name of the Lord (2:21, F)
2. Repent and be baptized (2:38, cf.3:19, F&W)
3. Believe in Jesus (10:43, cf. 13:39&48, F)
4. Believe in the Lord Jesus (16:31, cf. 18:8, F)
5. Repent and turn to God (26:20, F)

From Romans

1. Have faith (1:17, F)
2. Persist in doing good (2:7&10, cf.3:12, W)
3. Obey the law (2:13, cf. 3:20, W)
4. Have faith in Jesus Christ (3:22, 26&28&5:1, F)
5. Confess Jesus as resurrected Lord (10:9, F&W)
6. Call on the name of the Lord (10:13, F)

From 1 Corinthians

1. Believe (1:21, F)
2. Hold firmly to the gospel (15:2, F)

From 2 Corinthians

1. Repent (7:10, F)

 

[Ouch]

Scriptures on how to be reborn (God’s Requirement for Salvation)
[stated in terms of faith (F) and works (W)]

From Matthew

1. Repent (4:17, F),
2. Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
3. Be righteous (5:20, W)
4. Love your enemies (5:44, W)
5. Serve God (6:24&33, W)
6. Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
7. Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
8. Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
9. Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
10. Love Jesus (10:37, F)
11. Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
12. Have no doubt (11:6, F)
13. Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
14. Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
15. Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
16. Understand (13:23, F)
17. Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
18. Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
19. Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
20. Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
21. Forgive others (18:35, W)
22. Give to the poor (19:21, W)
23. Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
24. Yield fruit (21:43, W)
25. Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
26. Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
27. Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
28. Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
29. Be ready (24:44, F&W)
30. Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
31. Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
32. Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)

More from Mark

33. Accept the kingdom (10:15, F)
34. Believe the Gospel (16:16, F)
35. Receive baptism (16:16, W)

From Luke

1. Be hated (6:22-23, W)
2. Lend (6:35, W)
3. Judge not (6:37, W)
4. Invite the poor to your party (14:13-14, W)
5. Use wealth wisely (16:9, W)
6. Stand firm (21:19, F)

From John

1. Be born again (3:3&6, F)
2. Come to the light (3:21, F)
3. Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)
4. Drink living water (4:14, F)
5. Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
6. Do right (5:29, W)
7. Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
8. Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
9. Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
10. Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
11. Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
12. Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
13. Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
14. Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
15. Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
16. Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
17. Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)

From Acts

1. Call on the name of the Lord (2:21, F)
2. Repent and be baptized (2:38, cf.3:19, F&W)
3. Believe in Jesus (10:43, cf. 13:39&48, F)
4. Believe in the Lord Jesus (16:31, cf. 18:8, F)
5. Repent and turn to God (26:20, F)

From Romans

1. Have faith (1:17, F)
2. Persist in doing good (2:7&10, cf.3:12, W)
3. Obey the law (2:13, cf. 3:20, W)
4. Have faith in Jesus Christ (3:22, 26&28&5:1, F)
5. Confess Jesus as resurrected Lord (10:9, F&W)
6. Call on the name of the Lord (10:13, F)

From 1 Corinthians

1. Believe (1:21, F)
2. Hold firmly to the gospel (15:2, F)

From 2 Corinthians

1. Repent (7:10, F)

Thank you for his word.

So tell me what does a person have to do to be reborn.

 

[Musicmaster]

We will be seperated in the end.

JESUS followers will go to heaven and anyone who refuses to follow him or obey him will be Hell bound.

I like asking questions to make people think, it's not about ME at all we all have our own walk with him.

JESUS is VERY clear in John 3:5 we have to be born of water and of sprit, and Acts 2:38 clarifies that.

Sin WILL NOT enter Heaven matter a fact look at these verses.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

You think Paul preached a different message, if he did why does he speak of the purpose of baptism in Romans 6? Why does he speak of being filled with the Holy Ghost and the gifts that come with it in 1 Cor 14?

Your walk is between YOU AND HIM, one day you will be looking is HIS eyes (NOT PAULS) and HE will judge you with HIS WHOLE book.

PLEASE look at all of it,

1 Corinthians 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs's and our's:

You can see Paul is speaking to HIS church NOT THE UNSAVED.

DOES these verse give you specific instructions ON HOW TO BE SAVED???

WHAT JUST READ THEM????

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

VERSE 1, WHAT GOSPEL DID HE PREACH TO THEM??? WAS YOU THERE DID YOU HEAR IT???? WHAT GOSPEL DID THEY RECEIVE? WHAT GOSPEL DO THEY STAND ON!!!

ALL IN LOVE.

Rightly dividing the word of truth is crucial, thus helping the man to refrain from making the usual blunders that are so characteristic within the doctrinal moorings we can see throughout most of Protestantism and the theology that defines the majority of it.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yep, great verses to apply. At this time, after the rejection of Christ by the nation of Israel, we are to only preach the gospel of the grace of God. We are not to preach the gospel of the kingdom anymore.

Ridiculous