GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Endoscopy

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Absolutely, the Law Jesus was born under, The Levitical Priesthood, is the Same Law Paul is speaking about that was "ADDED". Jesus was born into this system. Abraham wasn't, you and I were not, but Jesus and Paul were.

It was the tutor to lead them to Christ and His great sacrifice He did for them. Abraham was "under" no such Law, and neither are you and I.

Zechariahs and Elisabeth were also born "under the Law" as you define it. And since they obeyed, which the rest of the Pharisees did not, were they not led to the true Messiah? Which of these two examples of Jews did God answer the prayers of, and which did He reject.? Which of these two examples followed the instruction of Jesus in John. 14, and which did not?

I am not sure what you are trying to preach here. Are you saying that Paul is speaking to the Commandment "Thou shall Love the Lord your God", or "Thou shall not Kill" as the "Law" that is the tutor to lead us to Christ. And now we don't need to these Laws anymore?

I don't think you understand the difference between the "Law of Works, and the "Law of Faith"?
I go with what Jesus said about the law.

We are unable to keep the law so require salvation by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus to remove our sins.

The law is 613 rules recorded in the Torah.

Matthew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Keep your posts short if you want them read. I saw an error in the first part of your post.

You misread what is stated about the resurrection. The tomb was empty on the first day of the week. Jesus said his sign was the sign of Jonah. As Jonah was in the belly of the big fish for 3 days and 3 nights so he would be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus was crucified during Passover week. Passover has 2 annual Sabbaths. The first and last day of the week. He was crucified just before the last Sabbath. He was buried just before evening since the Sabbath began at evening. Days were counted as from evening to the next evening. Therefore he rose just before evening on the weekly Sabbath.
When I said about the Jewish calendar being a nonsense I was meaning that according to their calender we are now in year 5778. That is simply not true. Another nonsense was that the Jewish calendar was based on a 28 day lunar month leaving them some days short of a full year. The result was they had to insert extra days.

Now then, if you are telling me an extra day was added onto the Passover week, that extra day, the 8th day, would normally have been the first day of the following week. In other words it was the Sunday.

Calling Sunday the Sabbath is yet another example of Jewish trickery.
 
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Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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When I said about the Jewish calendar being a nonsense I was meaning that according to their calender we are now in year 5778. That is simply not true. Another nonsense was that the Jewish calendar was based on a 28 day lunar month leaving them some days short of a full year. The result was they had to insert extra days.

Now then, if you are telling me an extra day was added onto the Passover week, that extra day, the 8th day, would normally have been the first day of the following week. In other words it was the Sunday.

Calling Sunday the Sabbath is yet another example of Jewish trickery.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I said nothing about adding days. It is obvious to the casual observer that you are delibedelibe twisting what I stated. I didn't say Sunday was the Sabbath. Quit twisting what I stated about the annual Sabbaths. An annual Sabbath can fall on any day of the week. Passover doesn't have a fixed position in the calender. Instead it goes by a lunar month based on the phase of the moon. That is why it slides around the calender.
 

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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Are you being deliberately obtuse? I said nothing about adding days. It is obvious to the casual observer that you are delibedelibe twisting what I stated. I didn't say Sunday was the Sabbath. Quit twisting what I stated about the annual Sabbaths. An annual Sabbath can fall on any day of the week. Passover doesn't have a fixed position in the calender. Instead it goes by a lunar month based on the phase of the moon. That is why it slides around the calender.
8 days does not a week of 7 days make.

Thank you for admitting Sabbaths "slide around."
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Annual Sabbaths only Dippidy Doo!!!
Why do you think God came to the Jews?

I will tell you why, because they were the most evil people on the planet and God came to take them out of it and teach them a New Way. And the majority of Jews do not want to know, so they twist Christianity to make it fit their pagan religion.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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8 days does not a week of 7 days make.

Thank you for admitting Sabbaths "slide around."
Here is something for you to argue with.

Is Passover 7 or 8 Days?
BY: BEN DREYFUS
https://reformjudaism.org/passover-7-or-8-days

Calendars during the Jewish holiday of Passover or Pesach
(Note: The information in this post applies to the holidays of Pesach, Shavuot, Sukkot, and Sh'mini Atzeret, but not to Rosh HaShanah. Rosh HaShanah has a different set of issues that would require a whole separate article to explain.)

When does Passover (Pesach) end? Why do some calendars say it ends after seven days and others after eight? The answer in most Reform Jewish communities is seven days, but the history is complicated.

The festival calendar in the Torah is clear: Pesach begins on the 15th of Nisan and lasts for seven days, and the first and seventh days are what we would now call yom tov, a day off from work. On the first night, there is a seder, with matzah, maror, and the retelling of the Exodus.

Back when the months of the Jewish calendar were determined by observations of the new crescent moon, eyewitnesses would bring their testimony to the rabbinical court in Jerusalem, and the court would sanctify the new month based on this testimony. Since a lunar month is about 29 ½ days, a Hebrew month (which has to have a whole number of days) can have either 29 or 30 days. So the court then had to get the word out to the rest of the Jewish world about which day had been declared the first of the month, so that everyone could observe the holidays on the same day. Originally this was done by signal fires (as in The Lord of the Rings), which transmitted the message rapidly. But then the Cutheans, a sect opposed to the rabbis, launched the first phishing scam and made signal fires on the wrong days to throw people off.

Since this method of transmission was no longer secure, the rabbis started sending messengers to outlying Jewish communities to deliver the message in person. This was harder to forge, but much slower. Locations within two weeks' travel of Jerusalem (such as other cities in Israel) had no problem, since the holiday (Pesach or Sukkot) began on the 15thof the month, so they would receive the message in time for the holiday. But faraway communities such as Babylonia (modern Iraq) couldn't get the message in time, and didn't know when the new month had begun, though they could narrow the possibilities to two days. So to play it safe, they started observing each yom tov for two days, so that one of the days would be the correct date of the holiday (as determined in Jerusalem). In the case of Pesach, this meant that yom tov was not only the first and seventh day, but was now the first, second, seventh, and eighth days, so Pesach became an eight-day holiday.

Up to the present time, all Jewish streams in Israel (liberal, Orthodox, and secular) follow the Torah's calendar and observe each yom tov for one day (and Pesach for seven days). But outside of Israel, the two-day (eight-day) custom stuck. In the fourth century, we switched over to a calendar that is based on mathematical computations rather than astronomical observations, so that the calendar can be computed anywhere in the world and the original reason for the extra day no longer applied. But the Babylonian Talmud (Beitzah 4b) advises Diaspora Jews to maintain minhag avoteichem ("the custom of your ancestors") and continue the practice of two-day yom tov, in case the knowledge of how to calculate the calendar is forgotten some day.

Fast forward to 1846. A group of European rabbis convened in Breslau to debate various reforms to Judaism. They concluded that "The second days of the holidays ... have no longer any significance for our time according to our religious sources ... Therefore, if any congregations abolish some or all of these second days, they ... are thoroughly justified in their act." These rabbis saw themselves as representing the entire Jewish people, but of course, Reform Judaism eventually became just one of several modern denominations. And within the Reform Movement, one-day yom tov became the standard practice, whether in Israel or anywhere else. Enough time has passed that this has become our own minhag avoteinu; as a seventh-generation Reform Jew, I am proud to inherit this tradition from my family.

The other modern Jewish movements (outside Israel) have taken different approaches. In the1960s, the Conservative movement ruled that individual rabbis were authorized to choose one-day or two-day yom tov for their communities; however, the vast majority of Conservative congregations recognize two days. The Reconstructionist movement also gives congregations the choice, and most Reconstructionist congregations do one day. In the Orthodox world, two days are standard, with the exception of some Israeli expats who maintain their one-day practice even outside Israel.

So the answer is that in Israel and for most Reform Jews around the world, Pesach is seven days, but for many other Jews (including the ones who seem to print most calendars), it is eight days.

What to do about seder? Many Reform Jews do seders on the first two nights of Pesach, even though they don't consider the second day of Pesach to be yom tov. Is that ok?

There's certainly nothing wrong with having a festive dinner with family and friends, singing songs, and discussing the Exodus, even if it is not yom tov. We could do that all seven nights if we wanted (though that would be a lot of cooking!). (However, those who want to be careful about these things should perhaps leave out certain blessings such as kiddush. The blog Mah Rabu has a guide to this situation.)

But maybe Reform Jews should consider introducing a new tradition: holding the "second seder" on the seventh night, when everyone agrees that it is yom tov. This has a number of advantages in addition to consistency with our festival calendar: spacing out the seders provides more time to breathe in between, and creates something climactic to look forward to at the end of the week (besides pizza). In an era when many of us have families spread across the continent, this schedule makes it easier to travel and have seders with both sides of the family, or one seder with relatives in another city and the other seder with our local community. The content of the second seder wouldn't have to be a repeat of the first, but could focus on the story that our tradition associates with the seventh day of Pesach: the Israelites' crossing of the sea, accompanied by song and dance. We already have some of the music (e.g., Debbie Friedman z"l has written "Miriam's Song"), and in time we'll come up with new symbolic foods and other customs.

No matter how many days you celebrate, have a joyous and liberating Pesach!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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695
113
Here is something for you to argue with.

Is Passover 7 or 8 Days?
BY: BEN DREYFUS
https://reformjudaism.org/passover-7-or-8-days

Calendars during the Jewish holiday of Passover or Pesach
(Note: The information in this post applies to the holidays of Pesach, Shavuot, Sukkot, and Sh'mini Atzeret, but not to Rosh HaShanah. Rosh HaShanah has a different set of issues that would require a whole separate article to explain.)

When does Passover (Pesach) end? Why do some calendars say it ends after seven days and others after eight? The answer in most Reform Jewish communities is seven days, but the history is complicated.

The festival calendar in the Torah is clear: Pesach begins on the 15th of Nisan and lasts for seven days, and the first and seventh days are what we would now call yom tov, a day off from work. On the first night, there is a seder, with matzah, maror, and the retelling of the Exodus.

Back when the months of the Jewish calendar were determined by observations of the new crescent moon, eyewitnesses would bring their testimony to the rabbinical court in Jerusalem, and the court would sanctify the new month based on this testimony. Since a lunar month is about 29 ½ days, a Hebrew month (which has to have a whole number of days) can have either 29 or 30 days. So the court then had to get the word out to the rest of the Jewish world about which day had been declared the first of the month, so that everyone could observe the holidays on the same day. Originally this was done by signal fires (as in The Lord of the Rings), which transmitted the message rapidly. But then the Cutheans, a sect opposed to the rabbis, launched the first phishing scam and made signal fires on the wrong days to throw people off.

Since this method of transmission was no longer secure, the rabbis started sending messengers to outlying Jewish communities to deliver the message in person. This was harder to forge, but much slower. Locations within two weeks' travel of Jerusalem (such as other cities in Israel) had no problem, since the holiday (Pesach or Sukkot) began on the 15thof the month, so they would receive the message in time for the holiday. But faraway communities such as Babylonia (modern Iraq) couldn't get the message in time, and didn't know when the new month had begun, though they could narrow the possibilities to two days. So to play it safe, they started observing each yom tov for two days, so that one of the days would be the correct date of the holiday (as determined in Jerusalem). In the case of Pesach, this meant that yom tov was not only the first and seventh day, but was now the first, second, seventh, and eighth days, so Pesach became an eight-day holiday.

Up to the present time, all Jewish streams in Israel (liberal, Orthodox, and secular) follow the Torah's calendar and observe each yom tov for one day (and Pesach for seven days). But outside of Israel, the two-day (eight-day) custom stuck. In the fourth century, we switched over to a calendar that is based on mathematical computations rather than astronomical observations, so that the calendar can be computed anywhere in the world and the original reason for the extra day no longer applied. But the Babylonian Talmud (Beitzah 4b) advises Diaspora Jews to maintain minhag avoteichem ("the custom of your ancestors") and continue the practice of two-day yom tov, in case the knowledge of how to calculate the calendar is forgotten some day.

Fast forward to 1846. A group of European rabbis convened in Breslau to debate various reforms to Judaism. They concluded that "The second days of the holidays ... have no longer any significance for our time according to our religious sources ... Therefore, if any congregations abolish some or all of these second days, they ... are thoroughly justified in their act." These rabbis saw themselves as representing the entire Jewish people, but of course, Reform Judaism eventually became just one of several modern denominations. And within the Reform Movement, one-day yom tov became the standard practice, whether in Israel or anywhere else. Enough time has passed that this has become our own minhag avoteinu; as a seventh-generation Reform Jew, I am proud to inherit this tradition from my family.

The other modern Jewish movements (outside Israel) have taken different approaches. In the1960s, the Conservative movement ruled that individual rabbis were authorized to choose one-day or two-day yom tov for their communities; however, the vast majority of Conservative congregations recognize two days. The Reconstructionist movement also gives congregations the choice, and most Reconstructionist congregations do one day. In the Orthodox world, two days are standard, with the exception of some Israeli expats who maintain their one-day practice even outside Israel.

So the answer is that in Israel and for most Reform Jews around the world, Pesach is seven days, but for many other Jews (including the ones who seem to print most calendars), it is eight days.

What to do about seder? Many Reform Jews do seders on the first two nights of Pesach, even though they don't consider the second day of Pesach to be yom tov. Is that ok?

There's certainly nothing wrong with having a festive dinner with family and friends, singing songs, and discussing the Exodus, even if it is not yom tov. We could do that all seven nights if we wanted (though that would be a lot of cooking!). (However, those who want to be careful about these things should perhaps leave out certain blessings such as kiddush. The blog Mah Rabu has a guide to this situation.)

But maybe Reform Jews should consider introducing a new tradition: holding the "second seder" on the seventh night, when everyone agrees that it is yom tov. This has a number of advantages in addition to consistency with our festival calendar: spacing out the seders provides more time to breathe in between, and creates something climactic to look forward to at the end of the week (besides pizza). In an era when many of us have families spread across the continent, this schedule makes it easier to travel and have seders with both sides of the family, or one seder with relatives in another city and the other seder with our local community. The content of the second seder wouldn't have to be a repeat of the first, but could focus on the story that our tradition associates with the seventh day of Pesach: the Israelites' crossing of the sea, accompanied by song and dance. We already have some of the music (e.g., Debbie Friedman z"l has written "Miriam's Song"), and in time we'll come up with new symbolic foods and other customs.

No matter how many days you celebrate, have a joyous and liberating Pesach!
What were you saying about long posts? I suggest you practise what you preach. As it happens I have read it before. The truth can be said in a few words, it takes many words to twist the truth. That is a lot of words.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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What were you saying about long posts? I suggest you practise what you preach. As it happens I have read it before. The truth can be said in a few words, it takes many words to twist the truth. That is a lot of words.
Red herring attack. I posted the whole article for you to disagree with and others to see! Start refuting it based on your previous posts. Or are you unable to comprehend the article?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I'm waiting! What do you have to say about this??
Stuff and nonsense. They simply did not have 365/6 days in a year and inserting days, i.e. 8 days in a week, caused the Sabbaths to fall on a different day. Stuff your Saturday nonsense.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Stuff and nonsense. They simply did not have 365/6 days in a year and inserting days, i.e. 8 days in a week, caused the Sabbaths to fall on a different day. Stuff your Saturday nonsense.
It is obvious to the casual observer that you are rejecting the historical method of calculating Passover. It is still used today. You don't want to live with the history of Passover but just want to argue about it in ignorance! You are the one arguing about injecting a day into the week.
 
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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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It is obvious to the casual observer that you are rejecting the historical method of calculating Passover. You don't want to live with the history of Passover but just want to argue about it in ignorance!
Of course I reject it. I reject Judaism lock-stock and barrel. We are in a New God given covenant and you need to move forward two thousand years, reject the old ways and embrace whole heartedly the fullness of Christianity in all it's detail, every jot and title of it.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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PS: This is why Easter floats around the calender. Live with reality instead of your ignorant beliefs.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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Of course I reject it. I reject Judaism lock-stock and barrel. We are in a New God given covenant and you need to move forward two thousand years, reject the old ways and embrace whole heartedly the fullness of Christianity in all it's detail, every jot and title of it.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news. This is straight out of the Torah. Last I heard it is still part of the Bible.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news. This is straight out of the Torah. Last I heard it is still part of the Bible.
The best thing you, and all Jews can do, is to buy a New Testament with the Psalms and give your Bibles to a charity or missionary society.

Because as you have just said, everything that you need to know about the Torah is in the New Testament.
 
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Endoscopy

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And Easter Sunday is always on a Sunday.
But not tied to a specific week on the calander. It floats around based on what week Passover is on. Easter is tied to Passover. Live with reality!!

PS: Jesus rose on the Sabbath afternoon since the tomb was empty the first day of the week. 3 days and 3 nights in the grave. Put in the grave just before evening.
 
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PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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But not tied to a specific week on the calander. It floats around based on what week Passover is on. Easter is tied to Passover. Live with reality!!
We know, but this thread is about the Sabbath Day which you admit floats around. So this whole thread is a nonsense.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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The best thing you, and all Jews can do, is to buy a New Testament with the Psalms and give your Bibles to a charity or missionary society.

Because as you have just said, everything that you need to know about the Torah is in the New Testament.
This absolute lie on a Christian site??? Remember what Jesus said about the law. The law is 613 rules stated in the Torah. Are you telling people to ignore the law in spite of what Jesus said?? You are disgusting.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.