God's freewill vs. Mankind's election

[tribesman]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God
Faith is never called a gift. what are the gits God has given us? Salvation (eph) Eternal life (romans) Justification (rom 5) not one mention of faith being a gift (although it is based on a gift offered us)

As said, faith is quiet a few things. However faith is never said to be a choice. Faith is called a gift in Eph.2, it comes together with saving grace. By grace through faith you are saved. Not, by grace you can have faith and hopefully be saved.

as for faith being a command, and a good work.. A work is something you do in with you recieve payment, or reward based on what you have done. what did I do to earn salvation? Nothing. I trusted in anothers work. You keep saying this is a work, but scripture says otherwise.
grace and works can not mix.. And since we are saved by faith through grace,, then faith can not be a work according to the biblical definition.

I don't see it as a work per se, but still faith consists of something you do. There's no way around that as said. You trust, you believe, you confess. And these virtues does not originate in you, they are of God.

not sure what you mean, recieved what?

Salvation of course. See context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As said, faith is quiet a few things. However faith is never said to be a choice. Faith is called a gift in Eph.2, it comes together with saving grace. By grace through faith you are saved. Not, by grace you can have faith and hopefully be saved.

No it does not say faith is a gift in eph 2. it says we are saved by faith, not works.. through the means of grace (unearned) Faith is always a choice. faith is the substance of things hoped for. if you see a hope. you trust it., it comes be hearing the word of God, either you chose to trust it, or you do not.

I don't see it as a work per se, but still faith consists of something you do. There's no way around that as said. You trust, you believe, you confess. And these virtues does not originate in you, they are of God.

of course they do not origionate in me. I never said they did


1. God said I am a sinner, condemned rightly
2. he said He paid the price for my sin (christ)
3. he said if I trust him, and place my HOPE in him. he will save me.

if he did not do any of these things, I would have nothing to have faith in, confess or believe. because it would not exist.

but it is still me chosing to trust. Not God forcing me to trust, and someone else not to based on some unknown equation.

Salvation of course. See context.

ok, then yes, we do disagree.

 

[Messenger_T]

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Glory-to-God]

Faith is a gift from the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:9

 

[Ihsomiet]

The gospel is not the news that we can receive Jesus into our lives. The gospel is the news that Jesus has received us into his.

 

[SeaBass]

This thread is merely asking the question:
Does God have a choice.
Does God actually have a choice in salvation, or is it left up to mankind.
After He(God), did His work.
Who elect's who?
And how do they go about it?
This is the question of this thread.

Eph 1:4 God fore-chose a group that would be called "Christian" and God fore-chose that this group would be "in Christ", "holy and without blame", be called "sons". God also fore-chose that this group would walk in good works, Eph 2:10.

It is man's choice to obey the gospel and be in the pre-chosen group or disobey and not be in this pre-chosen group.


So God elected the group. Man chooses to be in the group or not.