Fundamentalism and Particular Baptists
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Major, i'm not gonna lie but the interpretations of American Baptist Church seems to align more with Eastern Christianity, 
The kind of Baptist I am is very close to Presbyterian, because I'm a high churchie.
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They seem to be compatible with what I believe as a former OSAS Baptist per this I found online:
What do Free Will Baptists believe?
Regarding "the Washing of the Saints’ feet, an ordinance teaching humility": I think humility is greatly needed to be taught, but that washing feet is optional rather than an ordinance.
What do Free Will Baptists believe?
- God – We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Righteous Ruler of the universe. He has revealed Himself in nature, and in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: yet as one God.
- Jesus Christ – He is God’s unique Son; the only one of a kind. The Scripture teaches that He is God revealed in flesh. In His Divine nature He is truly God and in His human nature truly man. He is the One once crucified for man’s sin, the now risen and glorified Savior and Lord who mediates between God and man and who gives us access to the Father through His intercession. None can come to the Father unless they come through Him.
- Holy Spirit – All of the attributes of God are ascribed to the Holy Spirit by the Scriptures. It is He who convicts and convinces men of their sin. He also convinces man of that which is right, and that a final day of judgment will come. He, it is, who comes to live in us at conversion, to open our understanding to the Scripture, and to lead us into the truth.
- The Bible – God used holy men to write the Scriptures. They are, in both the Old and New Testaments, the very words God intended us to have. They are, as given by God, without error and are our only rule of faith and practice. We profit from them by learning the truth about many things: they also speak to us about wrong doing; they even correct us and get us back on course as well as instructing us in right living.
- Man – God created man in a state of innocence. Man, being tempted by Satan, yielded and willfully disobeyed God, becoming a sinner and incurring God’s judgment upon sin. All of Adam’s descendants inherit his fallen nature and thus have a natural inclination to sin. When one comes to an age of accountability, he is guilty of sinning before God and in need of salvation.
- God’s Relationship to His Creatures and Creation – God exercises a wise and benevolent providence over all beings and things. He maintains the laws of nature and performs special acts as the highest welfare of mankind and His created order of things require.
- Salvation – Man receives pardon and forgiveness for his sins when he admits to God that he is a sinner, when in godly sorrow he turns from them and trusts in the work of Christ as redemption for his sin. This acceptance of God’s great salvation involves belief in Christ’s death on the cross as man’s substitute and the fact of God’s raising Him from the dead as predicted. It is a salvation by grace alone and not of works.
- Who Can be Saved? – It is God’s will that all be saved, but since man has the power of choice, God saves only those who repent of their sin and believe in the work of Christ on the cross. Those who refuse in this life to repent and believe have no later chance to be saved and thus condemn themselves to eternal damnation by their unbelief.
- Perseverance – We believe that there are strong grounds to hope that the saved will persevere unto the end and be saved because of the power of divine grace pledged for their support. We believe that any saved person who has sinned (whether we call him a backslider or sinner), but has a desire to repent, may do so and be restored to God’s favor and fellowship. Since man, however, continues to have free choice, it is possible because of temptations and the weakness of human flesh for him to fall into the practice of sin and to make shipwreck of his faith and be lost.
- Gospel Ordinances – Free Will Baptists believe the Bible teaches three ordinances for the church to practice: Baptism in water by immersion, the Lord’s Supper, to be perpetuated until His return, and the Washing of the Saints’ feet, an ordinance teaching humility.
- Resurrection – Free Will Baptists believe the Scriptures teach the resurrection of the bodies of all men, each in its own order; they that have done good will come forth to the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation.
- Church Government – Free Will Baptist churches enjoy local church autonomy (self-governing). The local church is the highest authority in the denomination. Local churches voluntarily organize themselves into quarterly meetings, district, state, and national associations for the purpose of promoting the cause of Christ on the local, state, district, national, and world-wide level.
- Christ’s Second Coming – The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ, who ascended on high and sits at the right hand of God, will come again to close the Gospel dispensation, glorify His saints, and judge the world.
- Missions – Free Will Baptists believe that Jesus commanded the church to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature. For an in-depth study of Free Will Baptist beliefs and practices, ask for a copy of the Free Will Baptist Treatise.
Regarding "the Washing of the Saints’ feet, an ordinance teaching humility": I think humility is greatly needed to be taught, but that washing feet is optional rather than an ordinance.
I agree with you Emily that liberalism and individualism has influenced Church doctrine and yes on the East side, concepts such as gay, trans are not entertained in the Church.
We accept the sinner but not the sin. We are not going to change our language, concepts or doctrine because of the sinner, but we point the sinner to what God indented for us.
We accept the sinner but not the sin. We are not going to change our language, concepts or doctrine because of the sinner, but we point the sinner to what God indented for us.
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Good morning major.
On post number 18, in this thread i had a 100% agreement with some topics from the Baptist Church, but on this new post of yours i won't have 100% agreement since you introduced Salvation which is the root of how one understands, links and interprets doctrine in different Churches.
Let's take them one by one.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Partial agree.
God and the Holy Spirit does not use limited human language to describe itself. It uses Faith as the main component.
For example i cannot describe to you in detail in any language two main personal miracles that have happened to me.
I can try like most do, but in no way it captures what's in my heart and mind. It cannot be put into words.
This means that the Holy Spirit works uniquely for each person and it's impossible for any person to describe the Holy Spirit perfectly using our limited human language.
Partial agree. There is no age of accountability. Babies are born separated from God and in sin. They're not born in Heaven. They're born here with us in the fallen world.
Agreed.
Oof. Where do i begin here.
Okay let's take them one by one.
First of all why do American Churches use the word "saved"? This is a very confusing word.
For the new generations, this is confused with videogames. What are we saving here? Our game progress?
For the older generations like my grandfather who fought the Nazis, he would say : Saved from what? Zeee Germans?
Furthermore, in Albanian this word is associated more with the word "Safe" as opposed to "Saved", but i'm talking English here that's why i'm putting those 2 questions.
Why not be clear about this whole thing so nobody is confused? Old and young alike. Why not translate or say "What do i need to do to get to Heaven? Or more precisely Paradise?"
I think Paradise is a more precise word. This means that old and young generations alike, will understand immediately that you are talking about Spiritual matters, not Zeee Germans.
Secondly, when you say "By Grace through Faith", is Faith even yours or somebody else's?
Again why are you using such confusing language?
Also, assuming faith is yours and not the Calvinists, then do you realize that this whole Creation is an act of Grace and Mercy?
God Created this whole existence, put us in perfect conditions with Him in the Garden, asked us to obey Him and we chose to disobey Him.
This whole thing is an act of Grace.
Also, why do you separate Grace and Works? It's one package. Because if you separate them you become sort of a Nihilist where not a lot of things have meaning. For me at least.
The mercy of God is the flowing rivers of Living Water in a Christian's heart, not some sort of duty, or intellectual pursuit which both can end in sadness.
Finally, even when you use the right language, why not leave judgment up to God? Because Salvation means "Am I going to Paradise"?
I leave that up to God because the Kingdom of God is here an now for me in my heart. I don't worry about the future.
I realize that everyone makes different choices, but i'm explaining my choices to you major because you're a flexible guy. The most flexible of all.
Agreed.
Partial agree since you're using the word "saved".
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
On post number 18, in this thread i had a 100% agreement with some topics from the Baptist Church, but on this new post of yours i won't have 100% agreement since you introduced Salvation which is the root of how one understands, links and interprets doctrine in different Churches.
Let's take them one by one.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Partial agree.
God and the Holy Spirit does not use limited human language to describe itself. It uses Faith as the main component.
For example i cannot describe to you in detail in any language two main personal miracles that have happened to me.
I can try like most do, but in no way it captures what's in my heart and mind. It cannot be put into words.
This means that the Holy Spirit works uniquely for each person and it's impossible for any person to describe the Holy Spirit perfectly using our limited human language.
Partial agree. There is no age of accountability. Babies are born separated from God and in sin. They're not born in Heaven. They're born here with us in the fallen world.
Agreed.
Oof. Where do i begin here.
Okay let's take them one by one.
First of all why do American Churches use the word "saved"? This is a very confusing word.
For the new generations, this is confused with videogames. What are we saving here? Our game progress?
For the older generations like my grandfather who fought the Nazis, he would say : Saved from what? Zeee Germans?
Furthermore, in Albanian this word is associated more with the word "Safe" as opposed to "Saved", but i'm talking English here that's why i'm putting those 2 questions.
Why not be clear about this whole thing so nobody is confused? Old and young alike. Why not translate or say "What do i need to do to get to Heaven? Or more precisely Paradise?"
I think Paradise is a more precise word. This means that old and young generations alike, will understand immediately that you are talking about Spiritual matters, not Zeee Germans.
Secondly, when you say "By Grace through Faith", is Faith even yours or somebody else's?
Again why are you using such confusing language?
Also, assuming faith is yours and not the Calvinists, then do you realize that this whole Creation is an act of Grace and Mercy?
God Created this whole existence, put us in perfect conditions with Him in the Garden, asked us to obey Him and we chose to disobey Him.
This whole thing is an act of Grace.
Also, why do you separate Grace and Works? It's one package. Because if you separate them you become sort of a Nihilist where not a lot of things have meaning. For me at least.
The mercy of God is the flowing rivers of Living Water in a Christian's heart, not some sort of duty, or intellectual pursuit which both can end in sadness.
Finally, even when you use the right language, why not leave judgment up to God? Because Salvation means "Am I going to Paradise"?
I leave that up to God because the Kingdom of God is here an now for me in my heart. I don't worry about the future.
I realize that everyone makes different choices, but i'm explaining my choices to you major because you're a flexible guy. The most flexible of all.
Agreed.
Partial agree since you're using the word "saved".
- Gospel Ordinances – Free Will Baptists believe the Bible teaches three ordinances for the church to practice: Baptism in water by immersion, the Lord’s Supper, to be perpetuated until His return, and the Washing of the Saints’ feet, an ordinance teaching humility.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Faith as a gift given by God through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. Faith is not something a person produces or contributes but is entirely God’s work. While faith (and repentance) is possessed by the believer, it is a result of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Faith is both the means by which the believer is united to Christ and the instrument through which God's grace is received.
Very confusing language and NOT my experience AT ALL.
When i looked at the sky when i was young, i started to ask Origin questions. I was born in state-sanctioned atheism by the way.
Origin questions led me realize that a Powerful Creator has put this whole thing in motion.
So this is where Faith began for me.
Could we all be in an illusion myself included? Sure! Maybe i am God's puppet? Perhaps. But this contradicts like half of the Bible concepts including Evangelism. Why even try if we can't have genuine (limited) free will?
This is why the free-will question will have no answer since Time began until Time ends.
When i looked at the sky when i was young, i started to ask Origin questions. I was born in state-sanctioned atheism by the way.
Origin questions led me realize that a Powerful Creator has put this whole thing in motion.
So this is where Faith began for me.
Could we all be in an illusion myself included? Sure! Maybe i am God's puppet? Perhaps. But this contradicts like half of the Bible concepts including Evangelism. Why even try if we can't have genuine (limited) free will?
This is why the free-will question will have no answer since Time began until Time ends.
This is grievous to me as well. It tends to engender the attitude that nothing has to be done on our part to save (preserve) our souls.
Give attention to yourself and to the doctrine; continue in them, for doing this, you will both save yourself and those hearing you. 1 Timothy 4:16
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Reformed theology is it's own language.
That's not what we mean by faith. Natural revelation does impart a knowledge of God, but it does not grant saving faith. Simply believing God exists or that the Gospel is true is something demons can boast of. True fidelity and trust in the promise of God is given to us, not obtained by study. Not to say that natural theology can't be a means of leading a person to faith and growing in it, but intellectual belief and saving faith are distinct. We believe all humans know God exists but suppress it in stubborn unrighteousness.
Evangelism is only efficacious for the elect, but the Word is the regular means by which God leads to faith and it is also for the edification of the believer. In fact, I'm very careful not to say typical Evangelical things like 'God has a wonderful plan for you' or claiming that everyone is commanded to repent and believe, because I don't think they do. God's Word is for His people, the rest are deaf to it.
I don't believe in freedom of the will in either theological or physical terms, and I don't believe it has anything to do with responsibility in a moral or legal sense. I reject the terms of the debate and think the idea of free will is actually just a psychological trick combine with a category error. And people are not 'robots' because we're aware and intentional, but it's impossible that we have any intention other than what we have.
I'm willing to bite this bullet and actually get annoyed when I see gymnastics by some Calvinists to avoid it. Compatibalism is somehow even worse than pure libertarian will.
That's not what we mean by faith. Natural revelation does impart a knowledge of God, but it does not grant saving faith. Simply believing God exists or that the Gospel is true is something demons can boast of. True fidelity and trust in the promise of God is given to us, not obtained by study. Not to say that natural theology can't be a means of leading a person to faith and growing in it, but intellectual belief and saving faith are distinct. We believe all humans know God exists but suppress it in stubborn unrighteousness.
Evangelism is only efficacious for the elect, but the Word is the regular means by which God leads to faith and it is also for the edification of the believer. In fact, I'm very careful not to say typical Evangelical things like 'God has a wonderful plan for you' or claiming that everyone is commanded to repent and believe, because I don't think they do. God's Word is for His people, the rest are deaf to it.
I don't believe in freedom of the will in either theological or physical terms, and I don't believe it has anything to do with responsibility in a moral or legal sense. I reject the terms of the debate and think the idea of free will is actually just a psychological trick combine with a category error. And people are not 'robots' because we're aware and intentional, but it's impossible that we have any intention other than what we have.
I'm willing to bite this bullet and actually get annoyed when I see gymnastics by some Calvinists to avoid it. Compatibalism is somehow even worse than pure libertarian will.
Good morning major.
On post number 18, in this thread i had a 100% agreement with some topics from the Baptist Church, but on this new post of yours i won't have 100% agreement since you introduced Salvation which is the root of how one understands, links and interprets doctrine in different Churches.
Let's take them one by one.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Partial agree.
God and the Holy Spirit does not use limited human language to describe itself. It uses Faith as the main component.
For example i cannot describe to you in detail in any language two main personal miracles that have happened to me.
I can try like most do, but in no way it captures what's in my heart and mind. It cannot be put into words.
This means that the Holy Spirit works uniquely for each person and it's impossible for any person to describe the Holy Spirit perfectly using our limited human language.
Partial agree. There is no age of accountability. Babies are born separated from God and in sin. They're not born in Heaven. They're born here with us in the fallen world.
Agreed.
Oof. Where do i begin here.
Okay let's take them one by one.
First of all why do American Churches use the word "saved"? This is a very confusing word.
For the new generations, this is confused with videogames. What are we saving here? Our game progress?
For the older generations like my grandfather who fought the Nazis, he would say : Saved from what? Zeee Germans?
Furthermore, in Albanian this word is associated more with the word "Safe" as opposed to "Saved", but i'm talking English here that's why i'm putting those 2 questions.
Why not be clear about this whole thing so nobody is confused? Old and young alike. Why not translate or say "What do i need to do to get to Heaven? Or more precisely Paradise?"
I think Paradise is a more precise word. This means that old and young generations alike, will understand immediately that you are talking about Spiritual matters, not Zeee Germans.
Secondly, when you say "By Grace through Faith", is Faith even yours or somebody else's?
Again why are you using such confusing language?
Also, assuming faith is yours and not the Calvinists, then do you realize that this whole Creation is an act of Grace and Mercy?
God Created this whole existence, put us in perfect conditions with Him in the Garden, asked us to obey Him and we chose to disobey Him.
This whole thing is an act of Grace.
Also, why do you separate Grace and Works? It's one package. Because if you separate them you become sort of a Nihilist where not a lot of things have meaning. For me at least.
The mercy of God is the flowing rivers of Living Water in a Christian's heart, not some sort of duty, or intellectual pursuit which both can end in sadness.
Finally, even when you use the right language, why not leave judgment up to God? Because Salvation means "Am I going to Paradise"?
I leave that up to God because the Kingdom of God is here an now for me in my heart. I don't worry about the future.
I realize that everyone makes different choices, but i'm explaining my choices to you major because you're a flexible guy. The most flexible of all.
Agreed.
Partial agree since you're using the word "saved".
On post number 18, in this thread i had a 100% agreement with some topics from the Baptist Church, but on this new post of yours i won't have 100% agreement since you introduced Salvation which is the root of how one understands, links and interprets doctrine in different Churches.
Let's take them one by one.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Partial agree.
God and the Holy Spirit does not use limited human language to describe itself. It uses Faith as the main component.
For example i cannot describe to you in detail in any language two main personal miracles that have happened to me.
I can try like most do, but in no way it captures what's in my heart and mind. It cannot be put into words.
This means that the Holy Spirit works uniquely for each person and it's impossible for any person to describe the Holy Spirit perfectly using our limited human language.
Partial agree. There is no age of accountability. Babies are born separated from God and in sin. They're not born in Heaven. They're born here with us in the fallen world.
Agreed.
Oof. Where do i begin here.
Okay let's take them one by one.
First of all why do American Churches use the word "saved"? This is a very confusing word.
For the new generations, this is confused with videogames. What are we saving here? Our game progress?
For the older generations like my grandfather who fought the Nazis, he would say : Saved from what? Zeee Germans?
Furthermore, in Albanian this word is associated more with the word "Safe" as opposed to "Saved", but i'm talking English here that's why i'm putting those 2 questions.
Why not be clear about this whole thing so nobody is confused? Old and young alike. Why not translate or say "What do i need to do to get to Heaven? Or more precisely Paradise?"
I think Paradise is a more precise word. This means that old and young generations alike, will understand immediately that you are talking about Spiritual matters, not Zeee Germans.
Secondly, when you say "By Grace through Faith", is Faith even yours or somebody else's?
Again why are you using such confusing language?
Also, assuming faith is yours and not the Calvinists, then do you realize that this whole Creation is an act of Grace and Mercy?
God Created this whole existence, put us in perfect conditions with Him in the Garden, asked us to obey Him and we chose to disobey Him.
This whole thing is an act of Grace.
Also, why do you separate Grace and Works? It's one package. Because if you separate them you become sort of a Nihilist where not a lot of things have meaning. For me at least.
The mercy of God is the flowing rivers of Living Water in a Christian's heart, not some sort of duty, or intellectual pursuit which both can end in sadness.
Finally, even when you use the right language, why not leave judgment up to God? Because Salvation means "Am I going to Paradise"?
I leave that up to God because the Kingdom of God is here an now for me in my heart. I don't worry about the future.
I realize that everyone makes different choices, but i'm explaining my choices to you major because you're a flexible guy. The most flexible of all.
Agreed.
Partial agree since you're using the word "saved".
Re "Partial agree. There is no age of accountability. Babies are born separated from God and in sin. They're not born in Heaven. They're born here with us in the fallen world.": So...what? Do they go to hell?
Re "Why not be clear about this whole thing so nobody is confused? Old and young alike. Why not translate or say "What do i need to do to get to Heaven? Or more precisely Paradise?": I use saved, grace and faith because that is the language of the NT, in which I think Paradise only occurs once, although I have no problem using it.
Re "why not leave judgment up to God?": I do, but we are expected to have right discernment.
All right. I respect that, despite not understanding half of it.
If that's not what you mean, then why not use other words?
Also i have heard this point many times. General or natural revelation of God does not grant saving faith.
I am again confused by the word saved, as well as why do you want to live in the future to begin with. Why don't you want to live now with the Kingdom of God? Where are you now?
KEK.
Was Adam and Eve puppets too?
All right, so you are in that group. Nice to meet you still, but i'm on this other group the free-will group. Not sure why that is.
Maybe it's pre-ordained, maybe it's genuine (limited) free will, but we will find out hopefully on the second coming.
The important thing is that you love God with all your heart.
If that's not what you mean, then why not use other words?
Also i have heard this point many times. General or natural revelation of God does not grant saving faith.
I am again confused by the word saved, as well as why do you want to live in the future to begin with. Why don't you want to live now with the Kingdom of God? Where are you now?
KEK.
Was Adam and Eve puppets too?
All right, so you are in that group. Nice to meet you still, but i'm on this other group the free-will group. Not sure why that is.
Maybe it's pre-ordained, maybe it's genuine (limited) free will, but we will find out hopefully on the second coming.
The important thing is that you love God with all your heart.
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I agree with you that the concept is correct and these two ideas are opposing to realize God's nature and plan.
But for many Protestants, because they have had a bad taste with the Roman Catholic Church, who pushes the pedal too much on works-based entrance to Paradise, it's why Protestants have separated these things.
Now, just because the leadership of the Catholic Church may be mistaken in some ideas, doesn't mean that all 1.2 billion Catholics are bad, or to have a knee-jerk reactions into another theology as a response to them by separating works with faith or grace.
Grace is another confusing word which i'm assuming it means "unmerited favor". This is essentially mercy.
But again, language ... is very limiting.
But for many Protestants, because they have had a bad taste with the Roman Catholic Church, who pushes the pedal too much on works-based entrance to Paradise, it's why Protestants have separated these things.
Now, just because the leadership of the Catholic Church may be mistaken in some ideas, doesn't mean that all 1.2 billion Catholics are bad, or to have a knee-jerk reactions into another theology as a response to them by separating works with faith or grace.
Grace is another confusing word which i'm assuming it means "unmerited favor". This is essentially mercy.
But again, language ... is very limiting.
You are correct again, but a lot of things aren't written in the Bible explicitly like many folks would like.
Including the word Trinity, but i believe in the Trinity without a doubt!
I have said this many times that the Bible is a book which describes our relationship to our Creator, how to live our life while separated from Him and how to have hope and peace while separated.
It's not an engineering book or a legalistic book like in a court room.
Including the word Trinity, but i believe in the Trinity without a doubt!
I have said this many times that the Bible is a book which describes our relationship to our Creator, how to live our life while separated from Him and how to have hope and peace while separated.
It's not an engineering book or a legalistic book like in a court room.