-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S
God's works of providence are his most holy, wise, and powerful, preserving and governing all his creatures and all their actions. Providence, therefore, includes preservation and government. By preservation is meant that all things out of God owe the continuance of their existence, with all their properties and powers, to the will of God. This is clearly the doctrine of the Scriptures.
There is no free will. All things are for Him and by Him and from Him. In Him all things consist and He is the beginning, the end, and the entirety of all things.
There is no free will. All things are for Him and by Him and from Him. In Him all things consist and He is the beginning, the end, and the entirety of all things.
Even with free will God is still in control as He allows our choices to take place despite the consequences. Most of what we do is free will, even the most ordinary of things. The thing is God is aware of the choice and consequences even before such action is even contemplated. If there is no free will it would not be possible to love God as that is a choice as well.
-
2
- Show all
EXACTLY! How could the judge make righteous judgemement if He forced anyone to do anything...
Psalm 19:9, “The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether.”
Psalm 19:9, “The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether.”
Psalms 9:7-8, “But יהוה abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”
Ezekiyl 18:19-32, “And you said, ‘Why should the son not bear the crookedness of the father?’ But the son has done right-ruling and righteousness, he has guarded all My laws and he does them, he shall certainly live. The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself. But the wrong, if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. All the transgressions which he has done shall not be remembered against him – in his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live? But when a righteous one turns away from his righteousness and does unrighteousness, according to all the abominations that the wrong one has done, shall he live? All his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered. For his trespass which he has committed, and for his sin which he has committed, for them he shall die. And you said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Yisra’ĕl, is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous one turns away from his righteousness, and does unrighteousness, and he dies in it, it is because of his unrighteousness which he has done that he dies. And when the wrong turns away from the wrong which he has done, and he does right-ruling and righteousness, he keeps himself alive. Because he sees and turns away from all the transgressions which he has done, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. And the house of Yisra’ĕl have said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Yisra’ĕl? Is it not your ways that are not right? Therefore I judge you, O house of Yisra’ĕl, every one according to his ways,” declares the Master יהוה. “Repent, and turn back from all your transgressions, and let not crookedness be a stumbling-block to you. Cast away from you all the transgressions, by which you have transgressed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Yisra’ĕl? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” declares the Master יהוה. “So turn back and live!”
Psalm 19:9, “The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether.”
Psalm 19:9, “The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether.”
Psalms 9:7-8, “But יהוה abides forever, He is preparing His throne for judgment. And He judges the world in righteousness, He judges the peoples in straightness.”
Ezekiyl 18:19-32, “And you said, ‘Why should the son not bear the crookedness of the father?’ But the son has done right-ruling and righteousness, he has guarded all My laws and he does them, he shall certainly live. The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself. But the wrong, if he turns from all his sins which he has done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. All the transgressions which he has done shall not be remembered against him – in his righteousness that he has done, he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wrong?” declares the Master יהוה. “Is it not that he should turn from his ways, and live? But when a righteous one turns away from his righteousness and does unrighteousness, according to all the abominations that the wrong one has done, shall he live? All his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered. For his trespass which he has committed, and for his sin which he has committed, for them he shall die. And you said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Yisra’ĕl, is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous one turns away from his righteousness, and does unrighteousness, and he dies in it, it is because of his unrighteousness which he has done that he dies. And when the wrong turns away from the wrong which he has done, and he does right-ruling and righteousness, he keeps himself alive. Because he sees and turns away from all the transgressions which he has done, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. And the house of Yisra’ĕl have said, ‘The way of יהוה is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Yisra’ĕl? Is it not your ways that are not right? Therefore I judge you, O house of Yisra’ĕl, every one according to his ways,” declares the Master יהוה. “Repent, and turn back from all your transgressions, and let not crookedness be a stumbling-block to you. Cast away from you all the transgressions, by which you have transgressed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Yisra’ĕl? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” declares the Master יהוה. “So turn back and live!”
It seems rather clear at the end of the day.......a forced choice or religion is no choice or religion at all.....How can a man be judged righteously if he really had no choice in the matter "I.E> to believe, serve, love etc." The entire bible reeks of choice like the following examples...
Adam and Eve <---chose to eat or not
Cain <--choose to repent or not
Noah<---choose to build or not
Abram <--choose to leave or not
Moses <--choose to lead the children of Israel out or not
Joshua <--choose to lead or not
and on and on and on and on and on.......
EVEN JESUS had to disrobe himself of the glory he had with the Father, take the form of sinful flesh, be tempted in ALL points as we are AND CHOOSE
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Adam and Eve <---chose to eat or not
Cain <--choose to repent or not
Noah<---choose to build or not
Abram <--choose to leave or not
Moses <--choose to lead the children of Israel out or not
Joshua <--choose to lead or not
and on and on and on and on and on.......
EVEN JESUS had to disrobe himself of the glory he had with the Father, take the form of sinful flesh, be tempted in ALL points as we are AND CHOOSE
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
-
3
- Show all
praiseYah!
I have to say this, we may disagree on some doctrinal issues, obviously on this we agree, but to me this, this choice is the root of the thought in my head that makes me promote do His will, I feel He put it on my heart, but in my thoughts, and not to reject what He has guided me to this is my mental basis. Don't choose the things that go away from Him, choose His path no matter what.. Not always easy but if I believe in Yah and I do, it;s not really a question as to what I want to choose...
Hebrews 11 is powerful and This is the most heart wrenching and profound thing to me:
Mat 26:39, “And going forward a little, He fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I desire, but as You desire.”
and He chose to do the will of His Father...
Hebrews 12:3-, “For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives."
Just some thoughts.
I have to say this, we may disagree on some doctrinal issues, obviously on this we agree, but to me this, this choice is the root of the thought in my head that makes me promote do His will, I feel He put it on my heart, but in my thoughts, and not to reject what He has guided me to this is my mental basis. Don't choose the things that go away from Him, choose His path no matter what.. Not always easy but if I believe in Yah and I do, it;s not really a question as to what I want to choose...
Hebrews 11 is powerful and This is the most heart wrenching and profound thing to me:
Mat 26:39, “And going forward a little, He fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I desire, but as You desire.”
and He chose to do the will of His Father...
Hebrews 12:3-, “For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives."
Just some thoughts.
-
1
- Show all
You do not want to get deeper but want me to "chew" your ideas 
Interesting. Either we will go deeper or we will be just on the surface of bible verses, decide
Everything is predestined but we are not forced. Do you feel forced to write on this forum? I think you do not. We are not robots.
What we do is certain but not necessary.
Chew on that for a moment
Interesting. Either we will go deeper or we will be just on the surface of bible verses, decide Everything is predestined but we are not forced. Do you feel forced to write on this forum? I think you do not. We are not robots.
What we do is certain but not necessary.
Chew on that for a moment
-
1
- Show all
Are you really sure this is God’s will in relation to the scriptural support I am asking? Or this is out of nowhere and just came to your mind and put it here. Anyway, that will be you own choice. Also I am being reminded of the simple principle in studying His words by using ABC-Always By the Context. Those texts are perhaps irrelevant to the issue at hand. In your other post please do also put in the proper context your Colossians quote .
God bless
God bless
As usual I'm late to the party
You have to go back to the very beginning. The thing about God's sovereign will is that He generally chooses not to enforce it Himself. God created creation, and He was in charge of it. God then created man, and yielded His sovereignty to give man authority over creation. You, Adam, are the authority. So Adam then gives that away to satan. God could have, in His sovereign power, taken it all back. But then that would put Him in charge again, and that wasn't what He wanted. His intent/will was for man to have authority.
So to restore what God intended/willed meant a man had to take authority back from satan. But what man could do such a thing? Well, only God, coming to us as a man. So the Christ comes and indeed takes back authority. But He has not returned to enforce it. Power in the heavenlies is His, but satan still runs the terra firma. That's where our 'free will' comes in. It's God's sovereign will that we participate with Him in the enforcement of His authority over creation.
I liken it as to a Sheriff. The sheriff holds the authority, but he doesn't patrol the streets chasing down perps. He has Deputies who enforce his authority for him. But the Deputies actually have no authority of their own. Christ is our sheriff, we are his deputies, charged to enforce His Will in a land run by satan until He returns.
God yields his will to give us the authority to choose participate in bringing His Will to bear in this world.
You have to go back to the very beginning. The thing about God's sovereign will is that He generally chooses not to enforce it Himself. God created creation, and He was in charge of it. God then created man, and yielded His sovereignty to give man authority over creation. You, Adam, are the authority. So Adam then gives that away to satan. God could have, in His sovereign power, taken it all back. But then that would put Him in charge again, and that wasn't what He wanted. His intent/will was for man to have authority.
So to restore what God intended/willed meant a man had to take authority back from satan. But what man could do such a thing? Well, only God, coming to us as a man. So the Christ comes and indeed takes back authority. But He has not returned to enforce it. Power in the heavenlies is His, but satan still runs the terra firma. That's where our 'free will' comes in. It's God's sovereign will that we participate with Him in the enforcement of His authority over creation.
I liken it as to a Sheriff. The sheriff holds the authority, but he doesn't patrol the streets chasing down perps. He has Deputies who enforce his authority for him. But the Deputies actually have no authority of their own. Christ is our sheriff, we are his deputies, charged to enforce His Will in a land run by satan until He returns.
God yields his will to give us the authority to choose participate in bringing His Will to bear in this world.
K
I like your comparison with a weather man. (Of course with the man it's an educated guess, with God full knowledge), however you get the point across.
Remember about David inquiring of the LORD... He asked would Saul attack the city of his refuge, and would the men of that city deliver them up?
1Samuel 23:10 Then said David, O LORD God of Israel, thy servant hath certainly heard that Saul seeketh to come to Keilah, to destroy the city for my sake. 11Will the men of Keilah deliver me up into his hand? will Saul come down, as thy servant hath heard? O LORD God of Israel, I beseech thee, tell thy servant. And the LORD said, He will come down. 12Then said David, Will the men of Keilah deliver me and my men into the hand of Saul? And the LORD said, They will deliver thee up. 13Then David and his men, which were about six hundred, arose and departed out of Keilah, and went whithersoever they could go.
God has full knowledge, He knows every possible outcome. David inquired what would happen if....and then acted on information recieved.
Remember about David inquiring of the LORD... He asked would Saul attack the city of his refuge, and would the men of that city deliver them up?
1Samuel 23:10 Then said David, O LORD God of Israel, thy servant hath certainly heard that Saul seeketh to come to Keilah, to destroy the city for my sake. 11Will the men of Keilah deliver me up into his hand? will Saul come down, as thy servant hath heard? O LORD God of Israel, I beseech thee, tell thy servant. And the LORD said, He will come down. 12Then said David, Will the men of Keilah deliver me and my men into the hand of Saul? And the LORD said, They will deliver thee up. 13Then David and his men, which were about six hundred, arose and departed out of Keilah, and went whithersoever they could go.
God has full knowledge, He knows every possible outcome. David inquired what would happen if....and then acted on information recieved.
@selfdissolving..here are just a FEW scriptures that suggest free will
1 Corinthians 10:13
Galtians 5:13
John 7:17
Joshua 24:13
Mark 8:43
Genesis 3:16-17
Isaiah 55:6-7
1 Corinthians 10:13
Galtians 5:13
John 7:17
Joshua 24:13
Mark 8:43
Genesis 3:16-17
Isaiah 55:6-7
-
1
- Show all