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What is the intention of the gift of prophecy in the New Testament? Is it to basically give what I would describe as 'Christian fortune telling' to individuals or is it to edify the body?
The Bible makes plain that it is to edify the body and not for personal use.
People confuse a word of knowledge with the term 'prophecy'.
To prophesy (verb), is to speak forth a message or understanding from God.
A word of knowledge is to have a revelation about information that the Holy Spirit makes known to you. We also have wisdom and understanding and it would behoove all these prophets to get some of those before unleashing their 'prophetic words' upon the world.
The amount of false words being called prophecy today would make even an Old Testament false prophet blush. These 'words' are everywhere and people are running around hoping someone will tell them what God wants to say to them or perhaps give them a glimpse of their 'future'. THIS IS NOT GOD. The spiritual gifts are not for personal use; they are for the edification of the body of believers as they are to be found throughout the world.
Further, as Paul states, let the prophets speak 2 or 3 and let their words be evaluated. Instead, today, we have people practically worshipping so called prophets and giving heed to their words as though they were the oracles of God Himself. This, is not what is intended for the church.
And you know what is worse? A true word coming out of false lips in order to deceive the hearer who is either wondering about the validity of the speaker or the same word to enable a false prophet to gain access to believers in order to lead them astray.
Remember the slave girl who followed Paul and Silas, declaring they were sent from God? She prophesied by a demon and yet she spoke true words!
Be careful, be very careful about letting yourself fall under deception. There are religious spirits that are only too happy to mimic the real thing and many have given themself over to these 'teaching spirits' that are nothing more than demonic entities bent on destroying your walk with Christ.
You know what? It's WORK to study the Bible. It's WORK to pursue the will of God in your own life. It's WORK to get down and serious with God and wait on Him for answers you need. Get into the Bible and you will see this is so. Renew your mind with the word and do not leave yourself open to deception by accepting all these words from people who misuse the gifts and love the praise of people.
God is waiting for you to want Him and to hear from Him.
You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
The Bible makes plain that it is to edify the body and not for personal use.
People confuse a word of knowledge with the term 'prophecy'.
To prophesy (verb), is to speak forth a message or understanding from God.
A word of knowledge is to have a revelation about information that the Holy Spirit makes known to you. We also have wisdom and understanding and it would behoove all these prophets to get some of those before unleashing their 'prophetic words' upon the world.
The amount of false words being called prophecy today would make even an Old Testament false prophet blush. These 'words' are everywhere and people are running around hoping someone will tell them what God wants to say to them or perhaps give them a glimpse of their 'future'. THIS IS NOT GOD. The spiritual gifts are not for personal use; they are for the edification of the body of believers as they are to be found throughout the world.
Further, as Paul states, let the prophets speak 2 or 3 and let their words be evaluated. Instead, today, we have people practically worshipping so called prophets and giving heed to their words as though they were the oracles of God Himself. This, is not what is intended for the church.
And you know what is worse? A true word coming out of false lips in order to deceive the hearer who is either wondering about the validity of the speaker or the same word to enable a false prophet to gain access to believers in order to lead them astray.
Remember the slave girl who followed Paul and Silas, declaring they were sent from God? She prophesied by a demon and yet she spoke true words!
Be careful, be very careful about letting yourself fall under deception. There are religious spirits that are only too happy to mimic the real thing and many have given themself over to these 'teaching spirits' that are nothing more than demonic entities bent on destroying your walk with Christ.
You know what? It's WORK to study the Bible. It's WORK to pursue the will of God in your own life. It's WORK to get down and serious with God and wait on Him for answers you need. Get into the Bible and you will see this is so. Renew your mind with the word and do not leave yourself open to deception by accepting all these words from people who misuse the gifts and love the praise of people.
God is waiting for you to want Him and to hear from Him.
You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
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This is the way some people control everything around them. They try to discredit others in order to make themselves credible. It's a dangerous game to call what is true false. The OT has more to say about false words than the new and God hates people putting words in His mouth or controlling others through those same words.
The reason God sent prophets in the first place, was because the Israelites did not want to hear form God personally. They told Moses to speak to them on behalf of God. But what happens? False people creep in, calling themselves prophets and speak lies and deception and the people turn even further away from God! There is nothing in scripture to indicate we are to run around looking for a word from God.
Understand that the reason these prophets existed in the first place, was because people wanted someone other than God to speak to them.
Are we going to be like that too? Apparently, we can now approach the very throne of our Creator without fear as believers in His Son. What kind of person gives that up in favor of someone, who is just like them and does not know God any better than any opportunity they have themself for the same.
Probably not saying here you do not already know.
The reason God sent prophets in the first place, was because the Israelites did not want to hear form God personally. They told Moses to speak to them on behalf of God. But what happens? False people creep in, calling themselves prophets and speak lies and deception and the people turn even further away from God! There is nothing in scripture to indicate we are to run around looking for a word from God.
Understand that the reason these prophets existed in the first place, was because people wanted someone other than God to speak to them.
Are we going to be like that too? Apparently, we can now approach the very throne of our Creator without fear as believers in His Son. What kind of person gives that up in favor of someone, who is just like them and does not know God any better than any opportunity they have themself for the same.
Probably not saying here you do not already know.
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I'll just make it clear that there are real prophets but they are not on tv and telling you who you are going to marry whether you care to or not.
While they can receive understanding about the future, their main function in the church today, is to exhort and make plain the words we already have in our Bibles.
And like I said, a word of knowledge also functions as information when needed, but nowhere and never are people to be made the objects of a 'Moses type of person' who speaks to you from God and you just have to listen and obey. The devil loves that type of thing
While they can receive understanding about the future, their main function in the church today, is to exhort and make plain the words we already have in our Bibles.
And like I said, a word of knowledge also functions as information when needed, but nowhere and never are people to be made the objects of a 'Moses type of person' who speaks to you from God and you just have to listen and obey. The devil loves that type of thing
Thanks presidente for your response. When the Bible says ''Holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.' it equates this with 'we have this more sure word of prophecy'. That is referring to the Old Testament at the very least, if not the entire Bible. I see the Old Testament as being as much the gospel as anything else. Also, I don't see the Old Testament as failing to encourage faith, as if this is only a New Testament thing as you describe. When you say that the Bible has 2000 years of defining what prophecy is, are you sure you are defining it correctly? God authored the book of Revelation where it says that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy. Since Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, it seems to me that God has had an eternity to define that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
You say that prophecy is speaking words that God moves one to speak. There we agree, but I think you have narrowly defined this as some sort of specific words similar to predicting, or pertaining to certain situations, but God moves the believer to testify of Jesus, which, as we should have learned, is the spirit of prophecy.
You say that prophecy is speaking words that God moves one to speak. There we agree, but I think you have narrowly defined this as some sort of specific words similar to predicting, or pertaining to certain situations, but God moves the believer to testify of Jesus, which, as we should have learned, is the spirit of prophecy.
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He was describing how prophecies came in Old Testament times. They weren't from private interpretation, rather, holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. That's what the prophecies were. Regarding the utterances of prophets, God said that he would put his words in their mouths.
We see very many examples of prophetic speech (written down) in the Old Testament. Typically, before prophesying, a prophet would say something like, "Thus saith the Lord' and speak a message in the first person, quoting God. Not all prophecies fit that format, but that was fairly typical. Here is a good example of it.
Ezekiel 37
4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 Thus says the Lord God to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6 I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”(NKJV)
This was something Ezekiel did while in a visionary experience. Notice he is told to prophesy, God gives him the words to speak, and He quotes God, saying what God tell him to say. Ezekiel is not calling himself the Lord. He is prophesying... speaking the words God put in his mouth... so Yahweh is calling Himself Yahweh.
Then the New Testament uses the same word for 'prophesy' to refer to the New Testament gift that it uses to refer to the Old Testament activity. It uses the same word for 'prophet.' There is no reason to think that prophesying is a completely different thing.
We also see this one quote from Agabus the prophet in Acts that gives us an example of an early church prophetic utterance,
Acts 21:11
When he had come to us, he took Paul’s belt, bound his own hands and feet, and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this belt, and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’ ”
(NKJV)
Notice the New Testament example of prophetic utterance begins, 'Thus saith the Holy Ghost' similar to 'Thus saith the Lord' found so often through the Old Testament.
The passage you referred to in the book of Revelation does NOT say 'The testifying about Jesus is prophesying. That seems to be how you interpret it. We should understand what prophesying is-- speaking a message for God under the moving of the Spirit when we read that the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy.
Again, Romans 12 lists prophesying, teaching and exhortation and different gifts. If someone teaches the gospels, for example, won't he testify to Jesus? Don't words of exhortation testify about Jesus?
I wrote that New Testament prophecy encourages faith in Jesus, not that Old Testament prophesy did not. The Old Testament encourages faith in Jesus also.
Given your understanding of prophesying, what do you think of this passage?
I Corinthians 14
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
Do you think if someone is preaching or sharing a testimony in a church situation that he should yield the floor to someone else to has something to say?
I think a key word here is 'revealed.' Prophesying is revelatory. Someone 'sitting by' may receive a revelation... on the spot... some words to speak. A prophet is to yield the floor and let the Spirit continue speaking through someone else. Notice 'For ye may all prophesy one by one' with 'For' connecting verse 31 to the thought in the previous sentence. The reasons for the speaking prophet is to hold his peace when another sitting by receives a revelation is that 'ye may all prophesy on by one.' The implication is that the revelation spoke of here is a prophetic message.
We see very many examples of prophetic speech (written down) in the Old Testament. Typically, before prophesying, a prophet would say something like, "Thus saith the Lord' and speak a message in the first person, quoting God. Not all prophecies fit that format, but that was fairly typical. Here is a good example of it.
Ezekiel 37
4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 Thus says the Lord God to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6 I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”(NKJV)
This was something Ezekiel did while in a visionary experience. Notice he is told to prophesy, God gives him the words to speak, and He quotes God, saying what God tell him to say. Ezekiel is not calling himself the Lord. He is prophesying... speaking the words God put in his mouth... so Yahweh is calling Himself Yahweh.
Then the New Testament uses the same word for 'prophesy' to refer to the New Testament gift that it uses to refer to the Old Testament activity. It uses the same word for 'prophet.' There is no reason to think that prophesying is a completely different thing.
We also see this one quote from Agabus the prophet in Acts that gives us an example of an early church prophetic utterance,
Acts 21:11
When he had come to us, he took Paul’s belt, bound his own hands and feet, and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this belt, and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’ ”
(NKJV)
Notice the New Testament example of prophetic utterance begins, 'Thus saith the Holy Ghost' similar to 'Thus saith the Lord' found so often through the Old Testament.
The passage you referred to in the book of Revelation does NOT say 'The testifying about Jesus is prophesying. That seems to be how you interpret it. We should understand what prophesying is-- speaking a message for God under the moving of the Spirit when we read that the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy.
Again, Romans 12 lists prophesying, teaching and exhortation and different gifts. If someone teaches the gospels, for example, won't he testify to Jesus? Don't words of exhortation testify about Jesus?
I wrote that New Testament prophecy encourages faith in Jesus, not that Old Testament prophesy did not. The Old Testament encourages faith in Jesus also.
Given your understanding of prophesying, what do you think of this passage?
I Corinthians 14
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
Do you think if someone is preaching or sharing a testimony in a church situation that he should yield the floor to someone else to has something to say?
I think a key word here is 'revealed.' Prophesying is revelatory. Someone 'sitting by' may receive a revelation... on the spot... some words to speak. A prophet is to yield the floor and let the Spirit continue speaking through someone else. Notice 'For ye may all prophesy one by one' with 'For' connecting verse 31 to the thought in the previous sentence. The reasons for the speaking prophet is to hold his peace when another sitting by receives a revelation is that 'ye may all prophesy on by one.' The implication is that the revelation spoke of here is a prophetic message.
Since the elders/overseers of the church are to be 'apt to teach' (I Timothy 3:2) and are command to pastor the church over whom the Holy Ghost has made them bishops/overseers (Acts 20:28) and to pastor and oversee the flock of God (I Peter 5:2) and are to receive a reward when the chief Pastor appears (I Peter 5:4), then it makes sense that they would have grace to pastor and to teach. If they are apt to teach and commanded to pastor, then to some extent they should all be pastors and teachers.
But it does make sense that there are some who are gifted as a pastor and teacher who have not been ordained as an elder or overseer in the local church. For example, a novice in the faith might have this gift from conversion, but not be mature enough to be qualified as an overseer. He should submit to the elders.
But I am wondering why you used the singular. Why would a congregation in the time of the early church only have only one person gifted as a pastor?
But it does make sense that there are some who are gifted as a pastor and teacher who have not been ordained as an elder or overseer in the local church. For example, a novice in the faith might have this gift from conversion, but not be mature enough to be qualified as an overseer. He should submit to the elders.
But I am wondering why you used the singular. Why would a congregation in the time of the early church only have only one person gifted as a pastor?
The idea that a prophecy has to be known information, or 'confirmation' is not taught in scripture, runs contrary to so much of the Biblical narrative it makes no sense at all to hold to it. I think it was an idea developed as a reactionary quasi-doctrine during some periods in the early Pentecostal movement by pastors who had to deal with the problem of false prophecy. But the problem is, a lot of genuine prophecy doesn't conform to this man-made doctrine.
If you have received or been around other people receiving very detailed prophecies, some of them may be very clearly what you know about the details of your own life, your own calling, etc. I had a strong urge to go to Indonesia back when I was a young man in my 20's. I though it might be God directly me there, but at the time I would not have said I 'heard God.' I went to English services at first. One man at one meeting in Jakarta prophesied over me that God had brought me to Indonesia, and various other things. I went to this town outside of Jakarta, to a different meeting, and a man there prophesied, I think the exact same words for the first part of it, that God had brought me to Indonesia to make me a minister of the Gospel. I hadn't heard God tell me He brought me to Indonesia to make me a minister of the Gospel, but I had considered my own gifts and was starting to have an interest in teaching the Bible. Indonesia was where I first started teaching Bible studies, preaching in churches, etc. Was all of it confirmation? Most of it. Bits and pieces were not.
I know a man who was working for a big retail company. He had a nice job with good benefits. He went to a church and a preacher prophesied over him about how he would make music. So he bought equipment, got his first gig mixing music, and then he quit his job and went full-time mixing and mastering music. A lot of praise music has come out of his little home studio. Some of his music even got Dove awards. I asked him if he felt like he'd felt like God wanted him to make music before that prophecy. He said no. Would you want to tell the one who spoke this prophecy that he had prophesied falsely in the name of the Lord?
The problem with made-up doctrines is they can confuse people, and maybe even lead them to reject the working of God, and the grace of God working through other people. We aren't allowed to put our own restrictions on the Holy Spirit in our teaching.
I suspect God hates that, but I cannot think of where the Bible specifically says God hates it, and I wouldn't want to attribute a feeling to God He hasn't said He has.... along the same lines of not wanting to put words in God's mouth. I Corinthians 15 indicates bearing false witness of God is a bad thing, and false prophesying would be a subset of that. I find preachers guessing what God might think and state it as fact to be quite irksome as well. Prophesying falsely in the name of the LORD had a death penalty in the Old Testament.
I wonder if you had some bad experiences with someone using false prophecy to control others. I don't know if I have seen that. I think a lot of the false prophecy comes form people trying to prophesy and saying whatever stuff pops into their head. Some churches was people to prophesy so bad and tell them 'missing it' is no big deal. IMO, that is very dangerous.
The Spirit still gifted members of the body of Christ with the gift of prophecy, and 'prophets' is among the gifts of Christ in Ephesians 4. Christ said He would send prophets, wise men, and scribes.
If you think God should have just done away with prophets under the New Covenant... that's not the direction He went with it.
As far as my own experience goes, church experience, with prophesying, hearing prophecies in church, hearing receiving, etc. personal prophecies for myself and others, I'd say the vast majority of it has been rather positive, with a few bad experiences along the way. I can't vouch for online or TV ministers.
It is not forbidden either. In the Old Testament, it was clearly allowed. Deuteronomy 18 forbids going to soothsays, necromancers, etc., and specifically allows prophets of the Lord. Apparently inquiring through Urim and Thummin was allowed. Joshua and the apostles cast lots.
The New Testament does not forbid asking a prophet if he receives a word from the Lord, but doesn't give any examples of it, either. We should not treat it as a sin. Sometimes immature believers who find out about prophecy want to run here and there looking for a word. They might settle down a bit if they get a false one and it causes them some trouble... and try to screen a bit who they listen to and seek input from other members of the body of Christ on it.
Your attitude toward prophecy seems a lot more negative than Paul's in I Corinthians. Paul protected and nurtured zeal for spiritual gifts in I Corinthians 14. He was careful not to squash their zeal for speaking in tongues as he taught about the need for interpretation. But he greatly encouraged prophesying. He was speaking of a revelatory gift, as we see with the wording in the passage, 'if any thing be revealed to one that sitteth by....'
Asking someone if they have a prophetic word is nowhere described as sin in scripture. It's also possible that someone knows from the Spirit that someone else will receive a prophetic word. I've perceived that someone was supposed to prophesy over someone else.
But Christ sent prophets in the New Testament era and gave prophets, instead of just doing away with prophets altogether based on some egalitarian ideal.
Why would someone have to give up the ability to approach the throne of God spoken of in the book of Hebrews, to benefit from the prophetic ministry spoken of by Christ in the Gospels, by Luke in Acts, and by Paul in the epistles? There is no need to choose between the two.
American culture (Anglo culture in general and some other western cultures) tends to be very individualistic. I Corinthians 12 shows us that in the body of Christ, there are numerous spiritual gifts and we are supposed to minister to one another. Collectively, we are the body of Christ--- not one individual. We are the church not, "I am the church." As an individual, you are not the bride of Christ. The church is the bride of Christ.
If you have received or been around other people receiving very detailed prophecies, some of them may be very clearly what you know about the details of your own life, your own calling, etc. I had a strong urge to go to Indonesia back when I was a young man in my 20's. I though it might be God directly me there, but at the time I would not have said I 'heard God.' I went to English services at first. One man at one meeting in Jakarta prophesied over me that God had brought me to Indonesia, and various other things. I went to this town outside of Jakarta, to a different meeting, and a man there prophesied, I think the exact same words for the first part of it, that God had brought me to Indonesia to make me a minister of the Gospel. I hadn't heard God tell me He brought me to Indonesia to make me a minister of the Gospel, but I had considered my own gifts and was starting to have an interest in teaching the Bible. Indonesia was where I first started teaching Bible studies, preaching in churches, etc. Was all of it confirmation? Most of it. Bits and pieces were not.
I know a man who was working for a big retail company. He had a nice job with good benefits. He went to a church and a preacher prophesied over him about how he would make music. So he bought equipment, got his first gig mixing music, and then he quit his job and went full-time mixing and mastering music. A lot of praise music has come out of his little home studio. Some of his music even got Dove awards. I asked him if he felt like he'd felt like God wanted him to make music before that prophecy. He said no. Would you want to tell the one who spoke this prophecy that he had prophesied falsely in the name of the Lord?
The problem with made-up doctrines is they can confuse people, and maybe even lead them to reject the working of God, and the grace of God working through other people. We aren't allowed to put our own restrictions on the Holy Spirit in our teaching.
I suspect God hates that, but I cannot think of where the Bible specifically says God hates it, and I wouldn't want to attribute a feeling to God He hasn't said He has.... along the same lines of not wanting to put words in God's mouth. I Corinthians 15 indicates bearing false witness of God is a bad thing, and false prophesying would be a subset of that. I find preachers guessing what God might think and state it as fact to be quite irksome as well. Prophesying falsely in the name of the LORD had a death penalty in the Old Testament.
I wonder if you had some bad experiences with someone using false prophecy to control others. I don't know if I have seen that. I think a lot of the false prophecy comes form people trying to prophesy and saying whatever stuff pops into their head. Some churches was people to prophesy so bad and tell them 'missing it' is no big deal. IMO, that is very dangerous.
The Spirit still gifted members of the body of Christ with the gift of prophecy, and 'prophets' is among the gifts of Christ in Ephesians 4. Christ said He would send prophets, wise men, and scribes.
If you think God should have just done away with prophets under the New Covenant... that's not the direction He went with it.
As far as my own experience goes, church experience, with prophesying, hearing prophecies in church, hearing receiving, etc. personal prophecies for myself and others, I'd say the vast majority of it has been rather positive, with a few bad experiences along the way. I can't vouch for online or TV ministers.
It is not forbidden either. In the Old Testament, it was clearly allowed. Deuteronomy 18 forbids going to soothsays, necromancers, etc., and specifically allows prophets of the Lord. Apparently inquiring through Urim and Thummin was allowed. Joshua and the apostles cast lots.
The New Testament does not forbid asking a prophet if he receives a word from the Lord, but doesn't give any examples of it, either. We should not treat it as a sin. Sometimes immature believers who find out about prophecy want to run here and there looking for a word. They might settle down a bit if they get a false one and it causes them some trouble... and try to screen a bit who they listen to and seek input from other members of the body of Christ on it.
Your attitude toward prophecy seems a lot more negative than Paul's in I Corinthians. Paul protected and nurtured zeal for spiritual gifts in I Corinthians 14. He was careful not to squash their zeal for speaking in tongues as he taught about the need for interpretation. But he greatly encouraged prophesying. He was speaking of a revelatory gift, as we see with the wording in the passage, 'if any thing be revealed to one that sitteth by....'
Asking someone if they have a prophetic word is nowhere described as sin in scripture. It's also possible that someone knows from the Spirit that someone else will receive a prophetic word. I've perceived that someone was supposed to prophesy over someone else.
But Christ sent prophets in the New Testament era and gave prophets, instead of just doing away with prophets altogether based on some egalitarian ideal.
Why would someone have to give up the ability to approach the throne of God spoken of in the book of Hebrews, to benefit from the prophetic ministry spoken of by Christ in the Gospels, by Luke in Acts, and by Paul in the epistles? There is no need to choose between the two.
American culture (Anglo culture in general and some other western cultures) tends to be very individualistic. I Corinthians 12 shows us that in the body of Christ, there are numerous spiritual gifts and we are supposed to minister to one another. Collectively, we are the body of Christ--- not one individual. We are the church not, "I am the church." As an individual, you are not the bride of Christ. The church is the bride of Christ.
I think you have some of your own ideas, some of your own doctrines, that are reactionary and actually contradict scripture. I sometimes see and hear Christians dismissing legitimate, biblical uses of the gift of prophecy as 'fortune telling. In the Old Testament, was prophesying 'fortune telling.'
Saul's father's donkeys were lost. He and his father's servant were looking for them. Finally, the servant suggested asking the prophet of the LORD, Samuel. In Deuteronomy 18, Israelites were forbidden to consult soothsayers, diviners and mediums. Pagans might have gone to such people over lost donkeys. But these who men were Israelites and they went to a prophet of the LORD. Pagan soothsayers consulted the wrong spirits, if that, and some of the methodologies, divination and cloud reading were forbidden by the law.
Samuel did not rebuke Saul for coming to him for 'fortune telling.' What he did was allowed. Samuel told him that the donkeys had been found, and then gave him an elaborate prophecy about his future.
David inquired of the LORD on numerous occasions to see if he would sin battles, if a city would turn him over to Saul, etc. He was using another legitimate means, the priestly ephod.
There were also plenty of 'personal prophecies' in the Bible-- prophecies for one individual. Consider the prophecy given to Saul, above. Then also consider Ahijah the Shilonite and Jeroboam, and one of the sons of the prophets and Jehu.
One of the kings of Israel fell and was injured and sent to Beelzebub, the god of Ekron, to inquire as to whether he would recover. Elijah met his messengers on the way and said if there there was not a God in Israel that the king would consult with Beelzebub, the god of Ekron. It was wrong to consult with other gods. Consulting with the God of Israel through a prophet was allowed.
But we even see it in the New Testament, when Agabus prophesied that Paul would be bound. That was a 'personal prophecy.'
Paul also describes a scenario in I Corinthians 14 in which an unbeliever or unlearned person comes into the assembly and all prophesy and the secrets of his heart are made manifest. He falls on his face and says that God is surely among you. Doesn't this sound like a 'personal prophecy'.
In the Old Testament, the typical prophecy is spoken in the first person on behalf of God, and may be preceded by 'Thus saith the Lord.' In the New Testament, we see Agabus said, "Thus saith the Holy Ghost.' A prophecy can be directed toward a congregation, an individual, and anyone the Lord wants.
I would agree that in a lot of cases, this can come off as immature. There is a danger of people doing this and getting a false prophecy. ___Some__ people like this, not all, don't really get grounded in regular local fellowship with unbelievers.
But I know of no scripture that rebukes people for wanting to hear a prophecy about their future. Can you think of one? I can think of scripture where people who wanted to inquire of the Lord didn't want to repent of other sin or obey the Lord when they got the word. But someone rebuked just for wanting to hear a prophecy about themselves? No, not that I can find. If there is, can you show me?
And the believer who is in a tough spot emotionally, who has experienced great encouragement after receiving a prophetic word in the past, who wants to experience that again... I'm not going to rebuke them for wanting that, or even seeking it. I don't see any biblical grounds to do so. The missionary who is discouraged about his calling and difficulties faced on the field, who would love to receive some encouragement through a prophetic word... I am not going to rebuke them for wanting that.
Reading I Corinthians 14, I get the impression that prophesying in church should be considered normative.
Usually a 'personal prophecy' is one person prophesying about another. Is that 'personal use.' Personal prophecies can edify the congregation as well.
I agree that prophecies need to be judged. I don't know of a movement that I would say has arrived at an ideal way of doing this. I do not think everyone doing it individually and quietly in a Pentecostal church, IMO, is not what Paul meant. And the practice of writing a word and handing it to the pastoral staff does not fit the description in I Corinthians 14.
And when we get to that part about the Spirit gifting believers with gifts like prophesying, and saints ministering to one another, and prophesying in church, we should believe that, too.
Saul's father's donkeys were lost. He and his father's servant were looking for them. Finally, the servant suggested asking the prophet of the LORD, Samuel. In Deuteronomy 18, Israelites were forbidden to consult soothsayers, diviners and mediums. Pagans might have gone to such people over lost donkeys. But these who men were Israelites and they went to a prophet of the LORD. Pagan soothsayers consulted the wrong spirits, if that, and some of the methodologies, divination and cloud reading were forbidden by the law.
Samuel did not rebuke Saul for coming to him for 'fortune telling.' What he did was allowed. Samuel told him that the donkeys had been found, and then gave him an elaborate prophecy about his future.
David inquired of the LORD on numerous occasions to see if he would sin battles, if a city would turn him over to Saul, etc. He was using another legitimate means, the priestly ephod.
There were also plenty of 'personal prophecies' in the Bible-- prophecies for one individual. Consider the prophecy given to Saul, above. Then also consider Ahijah the Shilonite and Jeroboam, and one of the sons of the prophets and Jehu.
One of the kings of Israel fell and was injured and sent to Beelzebub, the god of Ekron, to inquire as to whether he would recover. Elijah met his messengers on the way and said if there there was not a God in Israel that the king would consult with Beelzebub, the god of Ekron. It was wrong to consult with other gods. Consulting with the God of Israel through a prophet was allowed.
But we even see it in the New Testament, when Agabus prophesied that Paul would be bound. That was a 'personal prophecy.'
Paul also describes a scenario in I Corinthians 14 in which an unbeliever or unlearned person comes into the assembly and all prophesy and the secrets of his heart are made manifest. He falls on his face and says that God is surely among you. Doesn't this sound like a 'personal prophecy'.
In the Old Testament, the typical prophecy is spoken in the first person on behalf of God, and may be preceded by 'Thus saith the Lord.' In the New Testament, we see Agabus said, "Thus saith the Holy Ghost.' A prophecy can be directed toward a congregation, an individual, and anyone the Lord wants.
I would agree that in a lot of cases, this can come off as immature. There is a danger of people doing this and getting a false prophecy. ___Some__ people like this, not all, don't really get grounded in regular local fellowship with unbelievers.
But I know of no scripture that rebukes people for wanting to hear a prophecy about their future. Can you think of one? I can think of scripture where people who wanted to inquire of the Lord didn't want to repent of other sin or obey the Lord when they got the word. But someone rebuked just for wanting to hear a prophecy about themselves? No, not that I can find. If there is, can you show me?
And the believer who is in a tough spot emotionally, who has experienced great encouragement after receiving a prophetic word in the past, who wants to experience that again... I'm not going to rebuke them for wanting that, or even seeking it. I don't see any biblical grounds to do so. The missionary who is discouraged about his calling and difficulties faced on the field, who would love to receive some encouragement through a prophetic word... I am not going to rebuke them for wanting that.
Reading I Corinthians 14, I get the impression that prophesying in church should be considered normative.
Usually a 'personal prophecy' is one person prophesying about another. Is that 'personal use.' Personal prophecies can edify the congregation as well.
I agree that prophecies need to be judged. I don't know of a movement that I would say has arrived at an ideal way of doing this. I do not think everyone doing it individually and quietly in a Pentecostal church, IMO, is not what Paul meant. And the practice of writing a word and handing it to the pastoral staff does not fit the description in I Corinthians 14.
And when we get to that part about the Spirit gifting believers with gifts like prophesying, and saints ministering to one another, and prophesying in church, we should believe that, too.
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Thanks presidente for your response. There are definitely many who see prophecy much as you do in the congregations these days. I see nothing wrong with prophecy being revelatory, but it is revelatory in the sense that each person comes to a closer understanding of the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy. The gospel, the word of God, doesn't really change. People come to understand it, or to understand a part of it that they didn't know previously, and then can share it one by one, decently and in order.
Unlike you, I think, I see the term prophet being applicable to anyone in Christ. The true believers are mentioned in Rev 12: "they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony". The testimony was the testimony of Jesus, which as we learn in the same book of Revelation, is the spirit of prophecy. That is why I see the 2 witnesses in Rev 11:"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two. hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." as being the believers in Christ. Christ told us that believers will be endued with power from on high, as is seen here. Further, the olive trees and candlesticks mentioned are talking about all believers in Christ.
The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Unlike you, I think, I see the term prophet being applicable to anyone in Christ. The true believers are mentioned in Rev 12: "they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony". The testimony was the testimony of Jesus, which as we learn in the same book of Revelation, is the spirit of prophecy. That is why I see the 2 witnesses in Rev 11:"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two. hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." as being the believers in Christ. Christ told us that believers will be endued with power from on high, as is seen here. Further, the olive trees and candlesticks mentioned are talking about all believers in Christ.
The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
john 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
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P
I simply caution anyone thinking that personal prophecy is what the gift of prophecy is for, while using Old Testament scripture to do so (because in the NT we come to understand that we have a relationship with God and no longer need a go between us and God) to study the scripture and you will soon come to find out that the OT prophets were there because they refused to listen to God and they were sent to correct and tell the sinful to return to God.
What we are seeing here, in the long winded defense of the practice of what I call 'Christian fortune telling', is simply what too many believers have been led to believe is what the gift of prophecy is for.
It is a sad testament to just how far some will go to avoid looking God in the eye and instead prefer to hear 'a word' from another person who is just as liable to fail as anyone else. They will never tell you the horror stories of people who have been led astray by another person while believing it was God.
Are you a believer? Then believe what scripture states. It does not tell you to go running to a person to hear from God. There is only one way to God and that is through Christ and we have every right to seek God on our own through the name of Jesus. Please do not fall for this personal prophecy and be persuaded that any person has more rights to God or to hear from Him than you do.
What we are seeing here, in the long winded defense of the practice of what I call 'Christian fortune telling', is simply what too many believers have been led to believe is what the gift of prophecy is for.
It is a sad testament to just how far some will go to avoid looking God in the eye and instead prefer to hear 'a word' from another person who is just as liable to fail as anyone else. They will never tell you the horror stories of people who have been led astray by another person while believing it was God.
Are you a believer? Then believe what scripture states. It does not tell you to go running to a person to hear from God. There is only one way to God and that is through Christ and we have every right to seek God on our own through the name of Jesus. Please do not fall for this personal prophecy and be persuaded that any person has more rights to God or to hear from Him than you do.
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Jesus told us to watch out for false prophets. They may have the appearance of sheep, but inside they are wolves. Matthew 7
Jesus will say to the false prophets 'I never knew you" and they will not spend eternity with God. They will spend eternity with their father the devil, who was the instigator of their false and deceptive behavior all along.
These are not my words. You will find them in Matthew 7.
Don't search for a word from God. Humble yourself and go with confidence in prayer to God who will provide all your answers and He will do so lovingly and truthfully. The Holy Spirit will not tell you things that are contradictory to scripture and saying that prophets can make many mistakes is NOT in the Bible.
Prophets who prophesied in their own names while saying God told them to say such and such, were to be stoned.
Would you like someone to prophesy over you and tell you things that are not of God even if they sound good? This is having your ears tickled and the Bible states that the devil masquerades as an angel of light.
As I stated earlier, the slave girl that was following Paul and Silas was telling the truth about them, but she did that by the power of an evil spirit. Paul cast the demon out of her when he could no longer tolerate the demonic influence.
Don't tolerate unbiblical practices even if everyone else is 'doing it'.
Jesus will say to the false prophets 'I never knew you" and they will not spend eternity with God. They will spend eternity with their father the devil, who was the instigator of their false and deceptive behavior all along.
These are not my words. You will find them in Matthew 7.
Don't search for a word from God. Humble yourself and go with confidence in prayer to God who will provide all your answers and He will do so lovingly and truthfully. The Holy Spirit will not tell you things that are contradictory to scripture and saying that prophets can make many mistakes is NOT in the Bible.
Prophets who prophesied in their own names while saying God told them to say such and such, were to be stoned.
Would you like someone to prophesy over you and tell you things that are not of God even if they sound good? This is having your ears tickled and the Bible states that the devil masquerades as an angel of light.
As I stated earlier, the slave girl that was following Paul and Silas was telling the truth about them, but she did that by the power of an evil spirit. Paul cast the demon out of her when he could no longer tolerate the demonic influence.
Don't tolerate unbiblical practices even if everyone else is 'doing it'.
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I share your concern about false prophets. The thing I would disagree with you is the idea that prophets cannot make ___mistakes___. There are all kinds of mistakes. Prophets are human. Moses turning down his call at first was probably a mistake. Moses hitting the rock the second time was a mistake. Elijah was mistaken about being alone. There were other people who had not bowed the knee to Baal.
If you are talking about prophesying falsely, they aren't supposed to do that. There was one prophet in the Old Testament who lied to the man of God from Judah about a revelation, tricking the man of God into disobeying God by having dinner with him, but then correctly prophesying the man's death. Again, prophets are human and are capable of sin, and it was a death penalty crime to prophesy falsely in the name of the Lord.
[/quote]
The same Lord Jesus Who warned about false prophets said,
Matthew 23:34
"I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes".
As I stated earlier, the slave girl that was following Paul and Silas was telling the truth about them, but she did that by the power of an evil spirit. Paul cast the demon out of her when he could no longer tolerate the demonic influence.
Don't tolerate unbiblical practices even if everyone else is 'doing it'.[/QUOTE]
If you are talking about prophesying falsely, they aren't supposed to do that. There was one prophet in the Old Testament who lied to the man of God from Judah about a revelation, tricking the man of God into disobeying God by having dinner with him, but then correctly prophesying the man's death. Again, prophets are human and are capable of sin, and it was a death penalty crime to prophesy falsely in the name of the Lord.
[/quote]
The same Lord Jesus Who warned about false prophets said,
Matthew 23:34
"I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes".
As I stated earlier, the slave girl that was following Paul and Silas was telling the truth about them, but she did that by the power of an evil spirit. Paul cast the demon out of her when he could no longer tolerate the demonic influence.
Don't tolerate unbiblical practices even if everyone else is 'doing it'.[/QUOTE]