Faith

evyaniy · Sep 22, 2023

In any case, we need faith in the Son to be saved no matter where it comes from and how we get it. So have faith because that's what matters.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 23, 2023

Magenta said:

ayes i think sometimes I made the right choice was able to still work for years , I try not to complain because I know others have a lot more trial happening than I I suppose we each have our own little deals to overcome and endure till perfection comes !!

i think I can open other window tabs , my niece came by the other day and was saying something about window tabs and me not closing them lol i felt like a dog trying to understand a human explain math 😀

any neohew is supposed to come visit in December possibly November he’s sort of my “ tech “ guy lol he actually bought this tablet for me a couple years ago and when he’s here he always explains alot to me about questions I have I have about five written down I’m gonna ask him about voice texting that sounds like my solution if it’s what I’m thinking it is

a I really appreciate mentioning that I had no clue lol

Pilgrimshope · Sep 23, 2023

evyaniy said:

It comes from hearing the truth of Jesus Christ in the gospel

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As we hear the gospel God is imparting faith for salvstion

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Faith comes from hearing the gospel of our lord

notmyown · Sep 23, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

one of our sons-in-law is an engineer. systems analyst. i dunno, he writes computer programs. he has a PhD in whatever it is, so i guess he's reasonably intelligent. haha

occasionally i ask him a question about such things and i realize in the middle of his explanation i must be looking at him like a deer in headlights.

he dumbs down the answer for me without making me feel the idiot i know myself to be because he's such a kind man.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 23, 2023

notmyown said:

haha yeah my neice just made fun of me dagnabbit ….no compassion I tell ya these young folks😂

rogerg · Sep 23, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

No.
Regarding Rom 10:17: first, the "cometh" isn't in it, so, it is not speaking of how someone acquires faith or Gal 2:16 would be in error - both verses (and all other like verses) must harmonize to find a correct interpretation; second, the faith being spoken of is Christ's faith, not man's faith, otherwise, were it to be man's faith, then faith would first have to be present in order to be willing to accept faith, otherwise, they would be dead to faith- a logical impossibility. Instead, the verse is actually speaking of how someone comes to know, understand, and measure Christ's faith and His faithfulness. IOW, through God's command for them, those so chosen are given (spiritual) hearing, and through/by that hearing they come to know of and believe that the faith of Christ has brought salvation, or said another way, they are given by God the ability to assess that which His faith has achieved.
Regarding 2 Tim 2:25 - 26, notice that it says that God must GIVE them repentance TO the acknowledging of the truth; that is
unless given to them by God as a gift, they cannot know of and therefore are unable to acknowledge, the truth. This substantiates what I said above about Rom 10:17, in that the hearing of Christ's faith comes as a gift from God.
Regarding Mark 16:15, belief is a gift that emanates from Christ's imputed faith. Belief becomes present and grows in all who have been imputed Christ's faith, and it is only because they have been imputed Christ's faith and His righteousness that they shall not be damned - that they have a belief in Christ is a barometer of that - but it is by Christ, not of themselves.

Faith does not come from hearing the gospel, instead, faith comes from salvation - belief comes from faith, and grows through spiritually hearing the gospel.

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Niki7 · Sep 23, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

OK stop gaslighting everyone. There is no arguement. Apparently you think if someone disagrees with another they want to argue.
That is a very immature outlook on life and certainly on a public forum where people are bound to disagree and certainly when it comes to scripture.

Oh you have certainly addressed me before and I have had you on ignore because of your inability to engage without insulting in a demeaning way. I could care less if you are affected or infected. You are not a teacher and certainly not correct in what you say in your op.

Grow up and actually discuss then because right now you are gaslighting and giggling. That is not a discussion. So quit it with the lols and blatantly dismissing others by stating they are arguing. The problem is you don't want to discuss...you want to dominate and correct others.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 23, 2023

rogerg said:

“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the huge circle doesn’t go anywhere lol Abraham heard what God told him that’s where his faith came from 😂 then he acted by the faith that came from what god told him that is what faith is it’s in Gods word you have to hear and believe it then act .

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Noah was told by God about the flood and the ark and he believed and obeyed and was saved by faith

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, ( heard gods word )

moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; ( believes and acted because he believed )

by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God simply came to Abram and said “ get your things and get out of this land and I’ll tell you later where to go and I’ll. BLess you “ Abraham believed and obeyed and left out following the lord that’s faith it’s why this sentences begin with “ by faith Noah ….by faith Abraham ….

the operation of faith is to hear what god said to you and to believe it and follow where he leads there can’t be faith without gods word we can’t have faith and reject what God said what he said is the source whether Abraham Noah Moses or us

what he said is in the gospel that’s why he sent it to all creatures and said this will save believers because that’s where faith comes from

Pilgrimshope · Sep 23, 2023

Niki7 said:

OK stop gaslighting everyone. There is no arguement. Apparently you think if someone disagrees with another they want to argue.
That is a very immature outlook on life and certainly on a public forum where people are bound to disagree and certainly when it comes to scripture.

Oh you have certainly addressed me before and I have had you on ignore because of your inability to engage without insulting in a demeaning way. I could care less if you are affected or infected. You are not a teacher and certainly not correct in what you say in your op.

Grow up and actually discuss then because right now you are gaslighting and giggling. That is not a discussion. So quit it with the lols and blatantly dismissing others by stating they are arguing. The problem is you don't want to discuss...you want to dominate and correct others.

I can’t help it some of you guys are comical …..but in case you missed it everyone is done with this argument lol 😂

Niki7 · Sep 23, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

There is not such sentiment in scripture. Your concept of God creating is wrong. Where is the scripture that states God has faith in Himself?

If you cannot find it and of course you won't cause it is not there, maybe just admit your idea here is not biblical.

Jesus tells us to have faith in God. Never does he say have the faith of God. Big distinction. The teaching that has been submitted by certain groups staring have 'God-faith' is not founded on scripture. It is wrong.

One controversial aspect of the modern Faith movement is the idea that we can exercise the “God-kind of faith.” This phrase is taken from Mark 11:22 in which Jesus says, “have faith in God.” Many scholars tell us that it literally means, “have the faith of God.” Many Faith Teachers have said that we are to have, therefore, the “God-kind of faith.” This would be the kind of faith that Jesus exercised when He commanded the fig tree to wither up from the roots and it did. (See Mark 11:12-14; 20-23). source

Niki7 · Sep 23, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

I agree that you do not seem able to help yourself. That's about it though. Your little lols are your way of excusing yourself from actual discussion. Again, this is not an arguement...that is you gaslighting people in an attempt to create a false impression about those who disagree with you. It's obnoxious.

You are trying to make it seem people who point out your error are beneath you. The post above this one asks you to provide scripture that indicates God has faith in Himself.

But you will not be able to do that because that scripture does not exist. It only exists as your error in understanding.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 23, 2023

Niki7 said:

ughhh I’m going to waste my time tommake a very clear point

“stop gaslighting everyone. There is no arguement. Apparently you think if someone disagrees with another they want to argue.”

i don’t think I’ve ever spoken to you and this is what I have heard from you this is who you are to me because it’s what you have said to me lol in this thread for anyone to read

your first comment to me

It is actually your blatant errors and smart aleck attitude that is what is galling

The scars might be on yourself when a person considers how badly you are off target. You do not really want to discuss..it seems you fancy yourself a teacher and if so, let me congratulate you on being a false teacher”

Now to be clear I hadn’t spoken To you and I don’t remember ever interacting with you in any meaningful way anyways . Now is this you peacefully “ disagreeing “ with anything I said in the original post about faith ?????

no not at all it’s someone looking to argue and really offering no other alternative it’s your only contribution throughout the thread lol your obviously here to argue and accuse and all that great stuff we’re warned about

To be clear that m not at the point I’m just going to block your profile so you are free to say whatever you want to say about me I will never see it I’ve had to do this before to one other person who was acting exactly like you are towards me

i don’t care if you disagree with me people do that all the time others agree with me lol the ones who don’t agree most are respectful and actually talk about the post I’m not interested in silly arguing I’m not here in a biblical discussion forum to bicker and argue with you or the other person in the thread who is o violate in the thread to argue by just reading what’s being written like with your comments

anyways I just figured I’d let you know I won’t see any of your comments anymore just trying to save you son wasted time

Niki7 · Sep 23, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Quite a few people have tried to correct you. You are responsible and have not presented what is true. You are presented with scripture that gives evidence of your error (and really this particular error is just one of many) and you refuse to receive it.

Not one person here has all truth, yet to be presented with scripture that directly rejects what you present is evidence of someone who has gone off the path some time ago and refuses correction. It is truly your path and you are free to walk it. Those who have shown clearly your particular error here have a clean conscience.

Back on ignore. No doubt you will feel relief at that. But it is really the final rebuke since you refuse the clear biblical teaching.

evyaniy · Sep 23, 2023

rogerg said:

More modern translations have corrected the "faith of" to "faith in." You have to be careful with those little words because the translations may not have used the right word. Here is Gal 2:16 in the NKJV with the correction.

“knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Here it is from NIV

know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[fn] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Most of the modern translations have corrected it from of to in. The KJV did not always use the correct word and in this case appears to be incorrect. Adverbs need special attention since they are prone to mistranslation. In many cases the translators chose the wrong English adverb which can lead to confusion and misinterpretation.

rogerg · Sep 23, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Belief comes from faith - faith a noun, belief a verb. Christ's faith was imputed to him causing Abraham to believe. Christ's faith is the only one with righteousness, man's faith doesn't have it. Abraham's belief came from the faith imputed to him.

Pilgrimshope said:

Christ's faith was reckoned to Abraham for his faith- again, read Gal 2:16 below.
In addition to righteousness, Christ's faith also had works. Abraham was justified by Christ's works, not by his own works. Were Abraham able to justify himself by his own works then he would have no need for a Saviour. Consider that all of your "by faith(s)" to be of faith imputed, which originated with/from Christ's faith - it was not of themselves.

[Jhn 5:36-37 KJV]
36 But I have greater witness than [that] of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Pilgrimshope said:

Paul says otherwise - faith was reckoned to Abraham and to all who become saved. Any belief that a man may produce of himself, is of the law and therefore of/from his own righteousness which cannot save but not by God's righteousness which alone saves and is apart from the law.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

No one can hear spiritually unless they are given ears by God that can hear from which comes spiritual hearing. Until becoming born again by God, no one who is born of the flesh has spiritual hearing. Observe that they COULD NOT hear Christ even though they could hear His words. To be "of God" and to hear "His word", is to have been saved and born again.

[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

God sent/sends forth the gospel for these reasons.

For those who are to become saved:

[Eph 4:11-12 KJV]
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

For those who are not to become saved:

[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

rogerg · Sep 23, 2023

evyaniy said:

Yes, I am familiar with that rendering, evyanity, but it is incorrect. Why? Because its case is genitive which demonstrates ownership. That is why the distinction was made in the Gal 2:16 for example, between the "of Christ" and the "in Christ" - the "in Christ" is not genitive but the
"of Christ" is.

Speech:NounCase:GenitiveNumber:SingularGender:Masculine
Definition of "Genitive"
The genitive case refers to the case used for a noun, pronoun, or adjective to show ownership.

evyaniy · Sep 23, 2023

Faith is not imputed. Righteousness is imputed because of Faith.

evyaniy · Sep 23, 2023

Faith is part of freewill. It is the operation within us by which we are saved. It is our choice to believe. It is part of being human.

rogerg · Sep 23, 2023

evyaniy said:

It probably would have been better for me to consistently use reckoned although I think they effectively
mean the same thing. Nevertheless, righteousness is a part of Christ's faith (sorry, not sure of the best way to state that) - as are
His belief (trust), and His works all being within and a part of it - all within His faith reckoned to those to whom His faith is given.

evyaniy · Sep 23, 2023

rogerg said:

Since you appear to be a Greek student, can you please help with John 10:18.

No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take(or receive?) it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Should the word "take" have been translated to receive? Some other more modern translations have rendered it receive. Can you please help with your understanding of the word. Thanks

Faith

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