Faith

[cv5]

As replied to another of you posts in another thread. The Son did the being raised part. His obedience and Faith saved Him and His Father raised Him through the Eternal Spirit.

Jesus never needed to be saved. Such a statement is contrary to the foundational principles of salvation itself.

Faith and obedience? Already exists in infinite quantities. Jesus never needed to top off the tank, nor did He need to learn anything about any of it.

Furthermore the Bible is crystal-clear: Jesus raised Himself, the Holy Spirit raised Jesus, and the Father raised Jesus.

Precisely what you would expect all things considered.

 

[evyaniy]

Jesus never needed to be saved. Such a statement is contrary to the foundational principles of salvation itself.

Faith and obedience? Already exists in infinite quantities. Jesus never needed to top off the tank, nor did He need to learn anything about any of it.

Furthermore the Bible is crystal-clear: Jesus raised Himself, the Holy Spirit raised Jesus, and the Father raised Jesus.

Precisely what you would expect all things considered.

Scripture tells us He needed to be saved from death in Hebrews 5:7-9. It also says He learned obedience.

7 He(the Son), in the days of His flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to Him(the Father) Who was able to save Him from death, and having been heard for His holy fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 Having been made perfect, He became to all of those who obey Him the Author of eternal salvation,

 

[evyaniy]

Anyone who wants to is welcome to answer the objections. It's not like it hasn't been drilled into peoples minds now. The Scripture verses are available to anyone who wants to do the work to quote them. But that could be admitting what has been shared is correct.

 

[evyaniy]

Read the old posts in many threads if you want. Have presented this to many individuals now. Not much feeling like trying to convince anyone at this point. Everyone is welcome to disagree but they do not have the Scriptures to support their interpretation.

 

[evyaniy]

What has been shared will be proven correct no matter how many take turns at refuting it and casting verdicts against it.

 

[evyaniy]

always figured this would be difficult to impossible. That part is in His hands to do with as He wills. After all, it is His Truth to open people's minds to. It has been presented now and at least some understood what was shared whether they agreed or not.

 

[Cameron143]

always figured this would be difficult to impossible. That part is in His hands to do with as He wills. After all, it is His Truth to open people's minds to. It has been presented now and at least some understood what was shared whether they agreed or not.

I'm still unsure of your point here. What exactly are you saying?

 

[evyaniy]

I'm still unsure of your point here. What exactly are you saying?

That His Word is His.

 

[Cameron143]

That His Word is His.

That's a tad vague. I am familiar with some of your posts and your understanding of Psalm 119. I still don’t understand what you mean by this statement exactly.

 

[evyaniy]

That's a tad vague. I am familiar with some of your posts and your understanding of Psalm 119. I still don’t understand what you mean by this statement exactly.

That He is the One Who can reveal His Word.

 

[Cameron143]

That He is the One Who can reveal His Word.

I don't see anything controversial in this.

 

[cv5]

Scripture tells us He needed to be saved from death in Hebrews 5:7-9. It also says He learned obedience.

7 He(the Son), in the days of His flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to Him(the Father) Who was able to save Him from death, and having been heard for His holy fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 Having been made perfect, He became to all of those who obey Him the Author of eternal salvation,

Almost nobody properly understands Hebrews (tough book BTW). You are making the same mistakes every other gentile makes. Very typical. And you are dead wrong in your tinker-toy assessment of these passages.

FYI......Jesus is Almighty, Omniscient God who is outside of time. Therefore, there is no "time-process" the way we think of it, no need whatsoever for "learning", no fear, nor any other fallen human failing.

Hebrews 5:6-10 starts with Melchizedek and ends with Melchizedek which tells us this passage is in a high priest context. The having been perfected verbiage means in Hebrew teachings, that Jesus has been approved. It's just like when the priest would inspect the red heifer to make sure it was pure. Pastor goes on to describe this in much greater detail.

For those who have any questions regarding the deity of Christ or that He had to learn and grow and become perfect, this is the sermon for you. After this one you should never be fooled by pastors and Christians that teach otherwise.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/10314121262/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/74131728273/

 

[evyaniy]

Almost nobody properly understands Hebrews (tough book BTW). You are making the same mistakes every other gentile makes. Very typical. And you are dead wrong in your tinker-toy assessment of these passages.

FYI......Jesus is Almighty, Omniscient God who is outside of time. Therefore, there is no "time-process" the way we think of it, no need whatsoever for "learning", no fear, nor any other fallen human failing.

Hebrews 5:6-10 starts with Melchizedek and ends with Melchizedek which tells us this passage is in a high priest context. The having been perfected verbiage means in Hebrew teachings, that Jesus has been approved. It's just like when the priest would inspect the red heifer to make sure it was pure. Pastor goes on to describe this in much greater detail.

For those who have any questions regarding the deity of Christ or that He had to learn and grow and become perfect, this is the sermon for you. After this one you should never be fooled by pastors and Christians that teach otherwise.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/10314121262/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/74131728273/

Staying with what Scripture says. It contradicts the points you made before. You have not presented any Scripture for consideration to support your conclusions that the Son did not experience life as a Man like we do and suffer as a Man to save us.

 

[cv5]

Which made it necessary that the Son was saved from death(the death He suffered for us) by His obedience and faith. He was obedient to the law and His Father by giving His life to save us, and He had faith in His Father's promise/commandment of life to Him, that He would live and be raised from the dead. He took the curse for us and reversed it through obedience and faith. He turned the curse into a blessing for those who believe in Him. Or at least that is what His prayers in the Psalms reveal.

You forgot the part where all of this was a fait accompli in eternity past.
God was not bumbling and stumbling thru plan "B" then, now or ever.

And the Son gave up his life of His own free will. Nobody did (nor could) take it from Him.

The Roman soldiers tried to beat Him to death, scourge Him to death, and kill him by crucifixion. None of it worked of course.
In fact, the Roman soldiers were so shocked by the fact that HE COULD NOT DIE that the execution detail came to faith in Him.
I mean Jesus was CRYING OUT in enormous loud volumes from the cross. The Roman soldiers knew that this was quite impossible for any mere man to do once nailed to a cross and suffocating.

 

[evyaniy]

Also, the "having been made perfect" phrase is after the "learned obedience by the things He suffered" phrase. It is not about an inspection of Him before He was sacrificed. It is about His being made perfect through what He suffered as the verse clearly says.

 

[cv5]

Staying with what Scripture says. It contradicts the points you made before. You have not presented any Scripture for consideration to support your conclusions that the Son did not experience life as a Man like we do and suffer as a Man to save us.

Yes I have. But you are too lazy, stubborn and heedless to bother taking the time to hear it.
It takes YEARS to even BEGIN to understand Hebrews, and you had better be packing to gear before you even start.

Almost nobody properly understands Hebrews (tough book BTW). You are making the same mistakes every other gentile makes. Very typical. And you are dead wrong in your tinker-toy assessment of these passages.

FYI......Jesus is Almighty, Omniscient God who is outside of time. Therefore, there is no "time-process" the way we think of it, no need whatsoever for "learning", no fear, nor any other fallen human failing.

Hebrews 5:6-10 starts with Melchizedek and ends with Melchizedek which tells us this passage is in a high priest context. The having been perfected verbiage means in Hebrew teachings, that Jesus has been approved. It's just like when the priest would inspect the red heifer to make sure it was pure. Pastor goes on to describe this in much greater detail.

For those who have any questions regarding the deity of Christ or that He had to learn and grow and become perfect, this is the sermon for you. After this one you should never be fooled by pastors and Christians that teach otherwise.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/10314121262/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/74131728273/

 

[evyaniy]

You forgot the part where all of this was a fait accompli in eternity past.
God was not bumbling and stumbling thru plan "B" then, now or ever.

And the Son gave up his life of His own free will. Nobody did (nor could) take it from Him.

The Roman soldiers tried to beat Him to death, scourge Him to death, and kill him by crucifixion. None of it worked of course.
In fact, the Roman soldiers were so shocked by the fact that HE COULD NOT DIE that the execution detail came to faith in Him.
I mean Jesus was CRYING OUT in enormous loud volumes from the cross. The Roman soldiers knew that this was quite impossible for any mere man to do once nailed to a cross and suffocating.

He had to undo what Adam's disobedience did in

Yes I have. But you are too lazy, stubborn and heedless to bother taking the time to hear it.
It takes YEARS to even BEGIN to understand Hebrews, and you had better be packing to gear before you even start.

Almost nobody properly understands Hebrews (tough book BTW). You are making the same mistakes every other gentile makes. Very typical. And you are dead wrong in your tinker-toy assessment of these passages.

FYI......Jesus is Almighty, Omniscient God who is outside of time. Therefore, there is no "time-process" the way we think of it, no need whatsoever for "learning", no fear, nor any other fallen human failing.

Hebrews 5:6-10 starts with Melchizedek and ends with Melchizedek which tells us this passage is in a high priest context. The having been perfected verbiage means in Hebrew teachings, that Jesus has been approved. It's just like when the priest would inspect the red heifer to make sure it was pure. Pastor goes on to describe this in much greater detail.

For those who have any questions regarding the deity of Christ or that He had to learn and grow and become perfect, this is the sermon for you. After this one you should never be fooled by pastors and Christians that teach otherwise.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/10314121262/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/74131728273/

Hebrews is not hard to understand. It is one of the best explaining books in Scripture. It is very direct and clear in it's explanations and revelations from the OT. What has been quoted and referred to is accurate and understandable.

 

[cv5]

Also, the "having been made perfect" phrase is after the "learned obedience by the things He suffered" phrase. It is not about an inspection of Him before He was sacrificed. It is about His being made perfect through what He suffered as the verse clearly says.

Absolutely WRONG. Those passages are pertaining to the Passover Lamb and Red Heifer protocols, the Great High Priest protocols, and order of Melchizedek type.

For most Christians, the entire book of Hebrews ends up being a total fail. They actually think Hebrews 6 & 10 are talking about losing your salvation. Ridiculous and just plain dumb.

 

[evyaniy]

Thanks for the name calling btw. It helps show who is right.

 

[cv5]

Hebrews is not hard to understand.

You literally have NO IDEA what is going on in those Hebrews 5 passages. Your attempted exegesis is a total, utter failure.

I am sounding the alarm to make sure nobody else falls into the same tar-pit.