Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

[Macabeus]

Melach, THIS is what I deny. Read the part in red

Since all sin, despite your desperate claim that one can sin without the will being involved, is a choice, we are all slaves to it. Which is why God gave us the Law, and why Christ had to come and die. The Law shows us our sinfulness, and Jesus made atonement on our behalf.

Bud said right here that WE ARE ALL SLAVES TO SIN. Now let's check his statement in the light of God's Word, shall we?

Romans 6:6- Knowing this, that our old manRp is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (no longer slaves to sin)
.
Romans 6:12- Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. (in other words, don't be a slave to sin)

Romans 6:14- For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (in other words, sin shall not be your master and you shall not be sin's slave. )

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (in other words, we were the servants of sin, but no longer)

Romans 6:18- Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (In other words, you are free from sin and no longer a slave to it.)

Romans 6:20- For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. (in other words, we were slavess to sin, but no more.)

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life (free from sin means no longer a slave to it)

 

[Macabeus]

Exactly what PAUL writes about, what SAMSON, DAVID, PETER and others suffered from.......but hey.....when one goes to seed on something.....like a field over run with weeds and thorn bushes.........tunnel vision....

THIS is what I deny. Read the part in red

Budman said:

Since all sin, despite your desperate claim that one can sin without the will being involved, is a choice, we are all slaves to it. Which is why God gave us the Law, and why Christ had to come and die. The Law shows us our sinfulness, and Jesus made atonement on our behalf.

Bud said right here that WE ARE ALL SLAVES TO SIN. Now let's check his statement in the light of God's Word, shall we?

Romans 6:6- Knowing this, that our old manRp is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (no longer slaves to sin)
.
Romans 6:12- Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. (in other words, don't be a slave to sin)

Romans 6:14- For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (in other words, sin shall not be your master and you shall not be sin's slave. )

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, (CHECK THE TENSE) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (in other words, we were the servants of sin, but no longer)

Romans 6:18- Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (In other words, you are free from sin and no longer a slave to it.)

Romans 6:20- For when ye were the servants of sin, (CHECK THE TENSE) ye were free from righteousness. (in other words, we were slavess to sin, but no more.)

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life (free from sin means no longer a slave to it)

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

RIGHT HERE...DC and Bud's doctrine have been weighed in the balance of Scripture and found wanting.

 

[Macabeus]

alrighty them. carry on with your tantrum.

OK, and you can carry on defending false accusers...oh yeah, you have a history of that too.

Oh, and of course you want me to stop.

 

[Macabeus]

Exactly what PAUL writes about, what SAMSON, DAVID, PETER and others suffered from.......but hey.....when one goes to seed on something.....like a field over run with weeds and thorn bushes.........tunnel vision....

How was Peter a slave to sin and a disciple at the same time. Jesus said "if you continue in my Word, you are disciples indeed. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Slaves to sin are not free...You and Bud are denying freedom and liberty in Christ.

 

[Macabeus]

alrighty them. carry on with your tantrum.

Exposing false doctrine is not throwing a temper tantrum

I gave numerous scriptures refuting Bud and DC's false doctrine about Christians being slaves to sin. Get out of the way and do not stand in the way of God's Word.

 

[Macabeus]

Since all sin, despite your desperate claim that one can sin without the will being involved, is a choice, we are all slaves to it. Which is why God gave us the Law, and why Christ had to come and die. The Law shows us our sinfulness, and Jesus made atonement on our behalf.

Correction...we WERE slaves to sin. Christians have been set at liberty, being redeemed by the Blood of Christ.

Why did you use the present tense "are" when you said "we are all slaves of it (sin)?

can you be a slave of righteousness and a slave at the same time?

Romans 6:16- Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

It says "whether...or" not "both...and"

 

[Oncefallen]

I see the children are having a tantrum today.................

 

[Macabeus]

I see the children are having a tantrum today.................

It is not a tantrum to call someone out for false accusations.

Nope. He's just like you. A Judaizer.

Do not follow a multitude to do evil...

 

[Macabeus]

Since you brought it up after I dropped it, I will throw another tantrum.

As a moderator, I take it you are one, you should know a personal attack and a false accusation when you see one.

Budman is guilty of false accusation, Let's see. He called me a Judaizer. Let's see if his accusation is true or false.

Judaizer- , "Judaizers" refers to Jewish Christians who sought to induce Gentiles to observe Jewish religious customs: to "judaize." It appears that these individuals agreed with much of the apostolic kerygma but sought to regulate the admission of Gentiles into the covenant people of God through circumcision and the keeping of the ceremonial law. Insisting that "Unless you are circumcised … you cannot be saved" ( Acts15:1 ), these "believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees" ( Acts 15:5 ) posed a serious threat to the gospel of grace and the uNIVersality of the Christian mission.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/judaizers/

Here is proof that I am no Judaizer. Take particular note to the parts in red.

Post 57- Jesus in the Old Testament-
Jesus was born under the Law and fulfilled the Law, so we are no longer under the ceremonial commandments of the Law.

Plus , keeping the Law never saved anyone. By the Law is the knowledge of sin

The Law reveals we are dead. The Gospel raises us to life. We are dead to the Law through Jesus, to be joined to (Jesus) so that we might bring forth fruit to God. Romans 7

Telling gentiles that they have to be circumcised and become Jews to be Christians, is missing the point of the New Covenant, and tragically ignoring the distinctness of the covenants.
Click to expand...

Budman lied. And he keeps saying we are slaves to sin, because he wants to excuse and justify his lies. He thinks he can't help but lie, and therefore believes that Jesus died not only to provide propitiation for our sins, but also to provide indulgences to sin.

 

[Macabeus]

Since you brought it up after I dropped it, I will throw another tantrum.

As a moderator, I take it you are one, you should know a personal attack and a false accusation when you see one.

Budman is guilty of false accusation, Let's see. He called me a Judaizer. Let's see if his accusation is true or false.



https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/judaizers/

Here is proof that I am no Judaizer. Take particular note to the parts in red.


Budman lied. And he keeps saying we are slaves to sin, because he wants to excuse and justify his lies. He thinks he can't help but lie, and therefore believes that Jesus died not only to provide propitiation for our sins, but also to provide indulgences to sin.

Documentation of the last two lines, lest I be accused of a false accusation

https://christianchat.com/search/130586/?page=2

https://christianchat.com/search/130586/?page=3

https://christianchat.com/search/130586/?page=4

Everything I said in the last paragraph of my post is in those three pages. I can go over it point by point tommorow if you need me to.

 

[oldethennew]

when someone feels the need to continually 'defend' themselves,
the redundancy of this, in reality speaks volumes of insecurity -

we all should be Christ-like and let our yes be yes and our no be no,
and speak briefly in love, this way our message will get across much
better than in a continual mode of self-defense...

1PETER 3:8-9.
Finally, be you all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren,
be pitiful, be courteous:
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing;
knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

It is not a tantrum to call someone out for false accusations.



Do not follow a multitude to do evil...

Don’t let the flesh win out,be the bigger person.
I know,It’s hard not to defend yourself,I wonder sometimes ,I wish JESUS had of let those persecuting HIM without a cause have It.

 

[Budman]

NO, I agree with John the apostle that if one HAS ALREADY BEEN SAVED, they will walk in obedience.

Are you walking in obedience when you sin every day?

I keep bringing you back to that Mac because you're whole "I'm trying" is a facade for your self-righteousness. Christians should live a holy life that pleases the Lord, but you turn that on it's head by saying one "will".

Has our free will been lost? You still choose to sin, Mac. We all do - daily.

Now I'm going to say something that I'm quite sure you're going to run with. Bookmark it, because you're going to probably post it a lot.

Ready?

A Christian can sin all they want and will still remain saved. A Christian can even stop believing in Jesus and still remain saved.

I will not apologize for believing the Bible

Me neither.

1 John 3- 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Well, since you still sin, you must not be abiding in Him, nor seen or known Him.

He that committeth sin is of the devil

Well, since you continue to sin, looks like you're of the devil.

Mac, when you post scripture out of context, you only condemn yourself.

Yet again, John is speaking of the Old Nature. The one that still abides in us. The one that influences us daily to sin. The one we still feed, because we still sin. Let us all know when you've reached that point when you no longer sin.

I won't hold my breath.

Now, let me say, I absolutely believe you are a Christian. i believe you want to please God. I believe you want to do right by living right. My only beef with you if your insistence that we can somehow be free of the Old Man and it's influence during our earthly lives.

Yes, we are to crucify the Flesh daily, but we will not be free of it until Jesus comes for us and sets us completely free.

 

[Budman]

The error in your argument is that you conflate not being sinless with being a slave to sin.

Christians are not sinless.

But..

NEITHER ARE THEY slaves to sin.

Then stop sinning.

 

[Budman]

Apparently you stopped at chapter seven and did not go on and read chapter 8

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free (no longer a slave ) from the law of sin and death.

New Nature. Stop adding to Scripture.

 

[Budman]

Not only did you not read Romans 8:2, but you missed a lot of chatper six too.

Romans 6:6- Knowing this, that our old manRp is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (no longer slaves to sin)
.
Romans 6:12- Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. (in other words, don't be a slave to sin)

Romans 6:14- For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (in other words, sin shall not be your master and you shall not be sin's slave. )

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (in other words, we were the servants of sin, but no longer)

Romans 6:18- Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (In other words, you are free from sin and no longer a slave to it.)

Romans 6:20- For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. (in other words, we were slavess to sin, but no more.)

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life (free from sin means no longer a slave to it)



He also said For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Those are things Paul said we "should" do. But do we? Do you? Are you "free" from sinning? When Paul says the Old Man is "crucified"with Him, it simply means our sins have been nailed to the cross and forgiven. They are gone. Paid for. And no condemnation can ever be applied to us.

Again, when Paul spoke of His struggle, it wasn't in the past. It was a present fight. He wants to do good, but can't. He wants to serve the Spirit, but instead serves the flesh. Be like Paul and recognize your dependence. We are to "reckon" the Old Man dead because of our complete forgiveness through Jesus, but it is very much alive and wars with the Spirit (New Nature) daily. And we give in to it daily when we sin.

 

[Budman]

It would be nice if people would follow the rules. But since Bud's an antinomian, I guess he doesn't have to.

Have we, or have we not, been set free from the Law?

 

[Budman]

Why did you use the present tense "are" when you said "we are all slaves of it (sin)?

can you be a slave of righteousness and a slave at the same time?

Paul was. (Romans 7)

Yet one more time: Prove you're a slave to righteousness by stopping all sinning.

 

[Budman]

Since you brought it up after I dropped it, I will throw another tantrum.

As a moderator, I take it you are one, you should know a personal attack and a false accusation when you see one.

Budman is guilty of false accusation, Let's see. He called me a Judaizer. Let's see if his accusation is true or false.



https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/judaizers/

Here is proof that I am no Judaizer. Take particular note to the parts in red.


Budman lied. And he keeps saying we are slaves to sin, because he wants to excuse and justify his lies. He thinks he can't help but lie, and therefore believes that Jesus died not only to provide propitiation for our sins, but also to provide indulgences to sin.

Mac, you mix Law and Grace. You say we "must" or "will" live a certain way to be Christians. That is exactly what a Judaizer does.

 

[UnderGrace]

Mac, you mix Law and Grace. You say we "must" or "will" live a certain way to be Christians. That is exactly what a Judaizer does.

I think this is more aligned with Lordship Salvation teaching