Faith alone, faith plus works? Something is missing in this discussion

[Bruce_Leiter]

I have to be honest, if personal responsibility includes trusting in God's grace through faith in Christ I take that responsibility, however, to my shame I have taken little other personal responsibility. Am I still saved? I have much proof I am, but my rational mind cannot comprehend why I would be

What do you mean that you "have taken little other personal responsibility"? The whole Christian life, during which God calls us to take responsibility, involves overcoming the old-nature qualities in our lives with the new ones God wants us to develop. See Colossians 3 (verse 1 bases our Christian progress on Jesus' resurrection that causes our new birth). But our progress is to God's credit, since he gives us the power through Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Exactly how are you or were you baptized into his death? By what process, what scriptures say this and how its done?

Romans 6:
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

You see water where there is no water

I was baptized (immersed, placed into) Christ Jesus and his death

Only God can do this

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Of course they pre-date it. Arminius didn't just pull his ideas out of thin air. Their view of salvation is similar (God's part and your part). Apparently this thread has run out of usefulness, so I'm done.

I am not arminian, And I am not calvin. and I do not believe I have a part.

I was saved By Grace period.

I am sorry saying we should stop looking at people from what a particular doctrine or church teaches so we can see what they really believe is useless..

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

AMEN! God's OPERATION!! By ONE Baptism!!!

 

[NightTwister]

I am not arminian, And I am not calvin. and I do not believe I have a part.

I was saved By Grace period.

I am sorry saying we should stop looking at people from what a particular doctrine or church teaches so we can see what they really believe is useless..

I'm sorry you don't care enough about doctrine. I guess 43K denominations isn't enough. Everyone wants to be a doctrinal island to themselves these days.

 

[DJT_47]

I completely agree with you. I wonder how God talked to you.

I'd like to know to since God doesn't talk to anyone except thru his written word.

 

[DJT_47]

AMEN! God's OPERATION!! By ONE Baptism!!!

Yes! Baptism, water immersion, into Christ is the one baptism!

 

[Inquisitor]

Romans 6:
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

You see water where there is no water

I was baptized (immersed, placed into) Christ Jesus and his death

Only God can do this

Your correct EG.

Water baptism is a symbolic act that a believer undergoes.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I'm sorry you don't care enough about doctrine. I guess 43K denominations isn't enough. Everyone wants to be a doctrinal island to themselves these days.

I do care about doctrine

I also care about the many people in this chat room and others being misrepresented or slandered because people try to classify them as things they are not. Because of somethign that we were taught.

again, if everyone is either a calvinist or an arminian to you. You will never understand what I believe, and if you try to categorize everyone who disagrees with you an arminian. You will most likely never understand what they really believe either. Because you have formed it in your mind that you already know..

Its not just calvinists who do this, many people do this.. and we must stop it if we are going to learn what the other person is really saying

I truly believe this will stop many of the fights in here

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes! Baptism, water immersion, into Christ is the one baptism!

Remove water and you have it

 

[DJT_47]

Your correct EG.

Water baptism is a symbolic act that a believer undergoes.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.

But read a bit further in 1 Cor to chapter 3 to understand Paul's statement you quoted from one.
Paul was the great orator, preacher, and convincer. Paul preached, Apollos baptized, and God gave the increase.

1 Cor 3:6

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Your correct EG.

Water baptism is a symbolic act that a believer undergoes.

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect.

Amazing, Paul seperated Baptism from the gospel here

yet they will still nto see

 

[Evmur]

You must have either hit ctrl S or you selected the S with a crossthrough from the icons above.

To remove it (if it happens again) highlight the text and select ctrl S or the aforementioned icon. .

thank you

... you're smart

 

[Evmur]

but what happens if we wait on God and get hit by a car and pass away before God gives us faith?

you are more likely get run over by a car if you jump up and run to a street corner

 

[Evmur]

But as many as have received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God..

So how am I messing with a persons emotions. It is God who draws, it is God who teaches (maybe through me0 it is the person who has to recieve the gift. or say no and move on.

erk these new translations " as many as received Him to them gave He power to become the sons of God"

they slip that "have" in there [subtle as snakes are they] because it gives the distinct idea that the receiving was something they did, of their own freewill, their choosing. YOU read it that way and so would anybody. And they say "gave the right" and once again it creates the perception of something they have the right to "should they choose"

You will say it is pernikity something we free gracers have to put up with. But it is all the difference between God doing a work in us and us doing it. God is gracious, His grace is overflowingly abundant, I'm not saying at all that nobody gets saved through such skewed preaching. Folks get saved.

But they start off with God on the wrang foot. Always believing that THEY must do something in order for God to work.

 

[NightTwister]

I do care about doctrine

I also care about the many people in this chat room and others being misrepresented or slandered because people try to classify them as things they are not. Because of somethign that we were taught.

again, if everyone is either a calvinist or an arminian to you. You will never understand what I believe, and if you try to categorize everyone who disagrees with you an arminian. You will most likely never understand what they really believe either. Because you have formed it in your mind that you already know..

Its not just calvinists who do this, many people do this.. and we must stop it if we are going to learn what the other person is really saying

I truly believe this will stop many of the fights in here

Rather than use common labels, let me put it this way. Everyone is in one of these three groups as far as contribution to Salvation:

1. Solely God.
2. Part God, part me.
3. Solely me.

Perhaps that is sufficient to remove the "misrepresentation", labeling, and "slandering."

 

[NightTwister]

Yes! Baptism, water immersion, into Christ is the one baptism!

Pouring and sprinkling works too

 

[DJT_47]

Pouring and sprinkling works too

Not really. Baptism is transliterated not translated from the Greek word baptizo which means to dip, plunge, immerse. Pour and sprinkle arre different words with different meanings and are not interchangeable with baptizo. So, if you had water poured on you or sprinkled on you, you weren't baptized, and if not baptized you're not saved.

 

[TheLearner]

too far behind, let's move onto Santification II Peter 1

 

[TheLearner]

Not really. Baptism is transliterated not translated from the Greek word baptizo which means to dip, plunge, immerse. Pour and sprinkle arre different words with different meanings and are not interchangeable with baptizo. So, if you had water poured on you or sprinkled on you, you weren't baptized, and if not baptized you're not saved.

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm