Eternal torment VS Annihilation
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Thank you so far you are the only one to actually respond with an answer and not some side step of an answer. I appreciate that very much. Sodom and Gomorrah were have said to be burned up with eternal fire but if you go to where they were located they are not still burning today which means once the fuel was burned up the fire went out, however, Sodom and Gomorrah is eternally gone.
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Good day JesusLives!
"Then the LORD rained down brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus He destroyed these cities and the entire plain, including all the inhabitants of the cities and everything that grew on the ground."
Where in the scripture above do you read that Sodom and Gomorrah were burned up with "eternal fire"?
If you are attempting to use this to show that the lake of fire is not everlasting punishment in fire, the above scripture does not prove that. It simply shows that God burned up their physical bodies. According to the information listed in the rich man and Lazarus, once the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were physically killed, their spirits would have gone down into Sheol/Hades being in torment in flame, just as the rich man did.
So, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a physical destruction of the cities, the bodies of the people and everything else that was in that area, which cannot be compared to the eternal conscious punishment of the lake of fire.
"Then the LORD rained down brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus He destroyed these cities and the entire plain, including all the inhabitants of the cities and everything that grew on the ground."
Where in the scripture above do you read that Sodom and Gomorrah were burned up with "eternal fire"?
If you are attempting to use this to show that the lake of fire is not everlasting punishment in fire, the above scripture does not prove that. It simply shows that God burned up their physical bodies. According to the information listed in the rich man and Lazarus, once the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were physically killed, their spirits would have gone down into Sheol/Hades being in torment in flame, just as the rich man did.
So, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a physical destruction of the cities, the bodies of the people and everything else that was in that area, which cannot be compared to the eternal conscious punishment of the lake of fire.
I believe the city of sodom and gomorah is consist of building and human.
Building can not commit sin. Gid not punish the building, but human.
God punish Human in the city of sodom with eternal punishment not temporary.
The punishment start at sodom, than continue to hell. Eternal hell
Building can not commit sin. Gid not punish the building, but human.
God punish Human in the city of sodom with eternal punishment not temporary.
The punishment start at sodom, than continue to hell. Eternal hell
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Sodom and Gomorrah are an example of those who will suffer eternal punishment. How is it that you people ignore the word "eternal?" You're misinterpreting the scripture in order to support your claim that just as the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah was temporary, so you apply it eternal fire as being temporary, which is false.
As I asked in the previous post, what do you think happened to the spirits of those people of Sodom and Gomorrah after their bodies were killed by the fire and sulfur? Their spirits would have departed from their bodies would have gone down into Sheol/Hades where they would begin their eternal punishment, just like the rich man of Lazarus fame.
"And they (wicked) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
The word "aionios" translated "eternal" is used to describe the results of both the wicked and the righteous. The word can refer to a cycle of time, an age, never ending and having no beginning or ending. Therefore, whatever you interpret the word meaning for one group, must be the same for the other. For example, if you say that the eternal punishment of the wicked is temporary, then eternal life for the righteous would also have to be temporary and that because the same word is used for both groups. It cannot mean temporary for one and never ending for the other.
How is it that you and others ignore the supportive words for "forever and ever, everlasting, eternal and having no rest day or night" and change the meaning into temporary punishment?
Those whose names are not found written in the book of life will suffer the same fate that the beast, the false prophet and Satan do:
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Does being tormented day and night forever and ever sound like temporary punishment to you?
As I asked in the previous post, what do you think happened to the spirits of those people of Sodom and Gomorrah after their bodies were killed by the fire and sulfur? Their spirits would have departed from their bodies would have gone down into Sheol/Hades where they would begin their eternal punishment, just like the rich man of Lazarus fame.
"And they (wicked) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
The word "aionios" translated "eternal" is used to describe the results of both the wicked and the righteous. The word can refer to a cycle of time, an age, never ending and having no beginning or ending. Therefore, whatever you interpret the word meaning for one group, must be the same for the other. For example, if you say that the eternal punishment of the wicked is temporary, then eternal life for the righteous would also have to be temporary and that because the same word is used for both groups. It cannot mean temporary for one and never ending for the other.
How is it that you and others ignore the supportive words for "forever and ever, everlasting, eternal and having no rest day or night" and change the meaning into temporary punishment?
Those whose names are not found written in the book of life will suffer the same fate that the beast, the false prophet and Satan do:
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Does being tormented day and night forever and ever sound like temporary punishment to you?
ugh! I don't know what is wrong with the thinking of these people! Unfortunately, these Biblical truths are not obvious to all. How I wish that God would make it obvious to all.
I believe that the spirit of deception is strong in these last days. As and example, When scripture repeats six times that there will be a thousand year period following Christ's return to the earth to end the age and they don't believe it, but interpret it as being an unknown amount of time, that's a strong deception. When scripture states that there will be a 144,000 who will come out of the nation of Israel and they apply this group as being the church and they say that this is not a literal number, but an unknown amount, that's a strong deception. It is the same when people read the time of punishment for the wicked as being forever and ever, everlasting and eternal and they interpret it as temporary or annihilation. This is a strong deception. It's as though they've been brainwashed.
We have scriptures that make clear that Jesus went to the Father's house to prepare places for all believers and that He is coming back to get us and they don't believe it.
We have clear information that when Jesus appears, that the dead are going to be resurrected, with the living being changed and caught up, but they don't believe it.
The word of God is being attacked and distorted on every Biblical subject.
I believe that the spirit of deception is strong in these last days. As and example, When scripture repeats six times that there will be a thousand year period following Christ's return to the earth to end the age and they don't believe it, but interpret it as being an unknown amount of time, that's a strong deception. When scripture states that there will be a 144,000 who will come out of the nation of Israel and they apply this group as being the church and they say that this is not a literal number, but an unknown amount, that's a strong deception. It is the same when people read the time of punishment for the wicked as being forever and ever, everlasting and eternal and they interpret it as temporary or annihilation. This is a strong deception. It's as though they've been brainwashed.
We have scriptures that make clear that Jesus went to the Father's house to prepare places for all believers and that He is coming back to get us and they don't believe it.
We have clear information that when Jesus appears, that the dead are going to be resurrected, with the living being changed and caught up, but they don't believe it.
The word of God is being attacked and distorted on every Biblical subject.
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I agree with you that the punishment is eternal we don't have a problem there. I don't believe that everyone is immortal because God said the wages of sin is DEATH not eternal torment. He only promised eternal life to those who obey and have a relationship with him.
Once the wicked are punished and DEAD they will be eternally DEAD and gone and sin will never rise again.
Once the wicked are punished and DEAD they will be eternally DEAD and gone and sin will never rise again.
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Really!? They're eternally gone? Who are all of those people who are resurrected and are released from Hades after the thousand years have ended and are judged at the great white throne judgment? Scripture states that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. But how could that be if when the wicked die, the cease to exist?
Life and death are both states of eternal existence based on ones status with God. Death does not mean nonexistence, but complete loss of well being, ruination.
Life = never ending existence in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God
Death = Never ending existence in separation from God in the lake of fire
As I have made know so many times before, the words "apollumi and apoleia" translated as "destroy" and "perish" are not defined as annihilation or extinction. Below is an excerpt from the definition of the these words:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction (apoleia), and many enter through it.
"684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being
Life and death are both states of eternal existence based on ones status with God. Death does not mean nonexistence, but complete loss of well being, ruination.
Life = never ending existence in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God
Death = Never ending existence in separation from God in the lake of fire
As I have made know so many times before, the words "apollumi and apoleia" translated as "destroy" and "perish" are not defined as annihilation or extinction. Below is an excerpt from the definition of the these words:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction (apoleia), and many enter through it.
"684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being
No it sound like they will never rise to new spirt life...God's mercy is not temporal.
Yes they are the ones that suffer day and night under the Sun, a living tribulation or wrath. Hell like poured out to Noah or Jesus .the father hearing the cry and strengthening to finish the three day work .
God does not accept dead sacrifices.. They have no spirit life needed to rise Just a bunch of dead man's bones. . There will no night in the new order There forever is over living in a body of death as the wrath of God being reveled from heaven the( first death) Simply never to rise to new spirt life. The corrupted dying spirit and dying flesh of unbeliever (no faith) both take there assigned places.. Those who begin a new incorruptible born again spirit will rise of the "last day' same last day the bottom pit is set afire never to rise to condemn as the letter of the law, forever and ever more.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 King James Version (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Yes they are the ones that suffer day and night under the Sun, a living tribulation or wrath. Hell like poured out to Noah or Jesus .the father hearing the cry and strengthening to finish the three day work .
God does not accept dead sacrifices.. They have no spirit life needed to rise Just a bunch of dead man's bones. . There will no night in the new order There forever is over living in a body of death as the wrath of God being reveled from heaven the( first death) Simply never to rise to new spirt life. The corrupted dying spirit and dying flesh of unbeliever (no faith) both take there assigned places.. Those who begin a new incorruptible born again spirit will rise of the "last day' same last day the bottom pit is set afire never to rise to condemn as the letter of the law, forever and ever more.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 King James Version (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
You need to remember that inanimate objects can get stained, so to speak, by the sins of those living in or near them. That is one reason why murderers were to be killed. [Numbers 35:33-34 (33 “‘Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land,and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it. 34 Do not defile the land where you live and where I dwell, for I, the Lord, dwell among the Israelites.’” )] Granted, it only references shed blood, but I recall other verses where God said that the sins had ruined the land. Wish I could find those in a hurry.
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He sort of did. [Psalm 37:20 (But the wicked will perish: Though the Lord’s enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.)] (This verse and the above verse in post #477 are both from the New International Version bible) It says to me that they will be burned up and disappear into smoke.
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Did you take all relevant passages into account to see what that means? Let's take one very significant passage -- the words of Christ Himself -- to prove that you are mistaken.
MARK 9
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Only those who wish to be intellectually and spiritually dishonest will deny that this is about the eternal torment of hell, and NOT extinction, annihilation, or vaporization.
The word translated as "hell" is Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, which has eternal fire and brimstone and the smoke of their torment which rises for ever and ever. Study every passage in the Bible to see that "the fire is not quenched" means eternal hell fire, and "where their worm dieth not" means eternal torment.
MARK 9
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Only those who wish to be intellectually and spiritually dishonest will deny that this is about the eternal torment of hell, and NOT extinction, annihilation, or vaporization.
The word translated as "hell" is Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, which has eternal fire and brimstone and the smoke of their torment which rises for ever and ever. Study every passage in the Bible to see that "the fire is not quenched" means eternal hell fire, and "where their worm dieth not" means eternal torment.
K
Isaiah 24:5 The earth is also polluted by its inhabitants, for they transgressed laws, violated statutes, broke the everlasting covenant.
Jeremiah 16:18 "I will first doubly repay their iniquity and their sin, because they have polluted My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable idols and with their abominations."
Leviticus 18:25 'For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants.
Leviticus 18:27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled);
2 Kings 23:10 He also defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire for Molech.https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Polluting-The-Land
Jeremiah 16:18 "I will first doubly repay their iniquity and their sin, because they have polluted My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable idols and with their abominations."
Leviticus 18:25 'For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants.
Leviticus 18:27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled);
2 Kings 23:10 He also defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire for Molech.https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Polluting-The-Land