Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine
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Posted this before foolish one. Now come up with an excuse that Jesus doesn't mean what he says. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. After we accept his grace we are in his hand. Period!!! Do you listen to his voice?
John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
You are simply digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole from which there will be no escape.
*Once saved always saved* (OSAS) is no different than *the eternal security of the believer*, and what Calvinists call *the perseverance of the saints*.
You claimed that no one before the 1960s believed this. And you were TOTALLY MISTAKEN. The Reformers from the 14th to the 17th centuries believed this fully. They made their beliefs very clear in the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646). I asked you to read that, but you failed to do so, and came back with more erroneous responses. So I will post it for you right now:
Chapter XVII
Of the Perseverance of the Saints
I. They, whom God has accepted in his Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved...
I trust that after reading this you will come back and say "I'm sorry, I had no idea..."
*Once saved always saved* (OSAS) is no different than *the eternal security of the believer*, and what Calvinists call *the perseverance of the saints*.
You claimed that no one before the 1960s believed this. And you were TOTALLY MISTAKEN. The Reformers from the 14th to the 17th centuries believed this fully. They made their beliefs very clear in the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646). I asked you to read that, but you failed to do so, and came back with more erroneous responses. So I will post it for you right now:
Chapter XVII
Of the Perseverance of the Saints
I. They, whom God has accepted in his Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved...
I trust that after reading this you will come back and say "I'm sorry, I had no idea..."
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I have answered that improper application of scripture you have presented before ...and with no further response from you;
That scripture applies to our status of eternal salvation after we have been judged by G-d and such is granted. Such award is permanent and no one can change that. You have no authority to apply that scripture based upon just repentance and baptism...which I doubt you feel is necessary.......and disregarding G-d's right to judge us. Also, I doubt ....He....... is happy with you doing it.
What is it you don't understand about G-d's notice and authority to judge us after earth death?
Geesssccch!!!!!!
That scripture applies to our status of eternal salvation after we have been judged by G-d and such is granted. Such award is permanent and no one can change that. You have no authority to apply that scripture based upon just repentance and baptism...which I doubt you feel is necessary.......and disregarding G-d's right to judge us. Also, I doubt ....He....... is happy with you doing it.
What is it you don't understand about G-d's notice and authority to judge us after earth death?
Geesssccch!!!!!!
L
Eternal security...?
I don't think you know what it means to be saved if you think that it can be taken away from you or that you can lose it.
Going down front and saying the sinners prayer don't save you; being dunked under water don't save you.
Joining the church, paying tithes, teaching Sunday school... None of that saves you.
If a person goes back into sin and rejects God, then he never had a genuine salvation experience to start with.
Y'all act like God don't know who is and is not going to follow through to the end. He knows who will go down front in a rush of emotions and say the sinners prayer and then go back to rejecting God.
Of you are born again you are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Why would God grant the Holy Spirit to someone who he knows will fall. God's not stupid, you can't play him. You gonna trick God? And God gonna be like, oh man...I gave that dude the Holy Spirit too, I gotta take him back now. Absurd.
I don't think you know what it means to be saved if you think that it can be taken away from you or that you can lose it.
Going down front and saying the sinners prayer don't save you; being dunked under water don't save you.
Joining the church, paying tithes, teaching Sunday school... None of that saves you.
If a person goes back into sin and rejects God, then he never had a genuine salvation experience to start with.
Y'all act like God don't know who is and is not going to follow through to the end. He knows who will go down front in a rush of emotions and say the sinners prayer and then go back to rejecting God.
Of you are born again you are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Why would God grant the Holy Spirit to someone who he knows will fall. God's not stupid, you can't play him. You gonna trick God? And God gonna be like, oh man...I gave that dude the Holy Spirit too, I gotta take him back now. Absurd.
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One protracted discussion starter that presumes to inform God's grace is false advertising?
I understand new arrivals to the Bible or the teachings of the faith in whatever church one might find themselves can misinform new Christians. Or those who are looking into the faith.
However, there is nothing false about God's promise. We are eternally secure in Christ because we were chosen by God to receive his eternal seal that guarantees our soul's infinite salvation.
We had nothing to do with this. Therefore, we can do nothing to overthrow God's will for us. It is all God.
Sadly, there is a machination in the world that supports the errant understanding the first post displays . The additional false accusation that eternal security in Christ means Christians can sin with impunity.
Not so. The Christian does not make a habit of sinning for we are no longer labeled as the sinning damned that we once were. That label affixed to our state before our redemption was that of Sinner.
We are not that anymore. We are numbered among the Saints in Christ and of God.
Second Corinthians 5:17 says: “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
Stop thinking you are not secure in the grace God gave you. It's God! Not a man thing. It is the creator of all there is that makes you the promise. And he doesn't take it back. He knows us inside and out. There is nothing we can do that surprises God. When he knew us first and called us into his free gift it was he that knew what he was doing first. And he doesn't make mistakes nor does he later regret that because he didn't see into our future if we fall away, or do something others think strips us of our eternal Salvation.
Saved for eternity.
That's God's promise.
I believe him.
I understand new arrivals to the Bible or the teachings of the faith in whatever church one might find themselves can misinform new Christians. Or those who are looking into the faith.
However, there is nothing false about God's promise. We are eternally secure in Christ because we were chosen by God to receive his eternal seal that guarantees our soul's infinite salvation.
We had nothing to do with this. Therefore, we can do nothing to overthrow God's will for us. It is all God.
Sadly, there is a machination in the world that supports the errant understanding the first post displays . The additional false accusation that eternal security in Christ means Christians can sin with impunity.
Not so. The Christian does not make a habit of sinning for we are no longer labeled as the sinning damned that we once were. That label affixed to our state before our redemption was that of Sinner.
We are not that anymore. We are numbered among the Saints in Christ and of God.
Second Corinthians 5:17 says: “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
Stop thinking you are not secure in the grace God gave you. It's God! Not a man thing. It is the creator of all there is that makes you the promise. And he doesn't take it back. He knows us inside and out. There is nothing we can do that surprises God. When he knew us first and called us into his free gift it was he that knew what he was doing first. And he doesn't make mistakes nor does he later regret that because he didn't see into our future if we fall away, or do something others think strips us of our eternal Salvation.
Saved for eternity.
That's God's promise.
I believe him.
I am sure glad I have G-d passing judgement on me and not you.
Your conclusion is erroneous;...what does scripture mean.....maintain until the end........and ...allow no man to steal your crowns. ...sacrifice for sin is not available where sin is present. etc.?
I suggest you study The Bible...more thoroughly.
Your conclusion is erroneous;...what does scripture mean.....maintain until the end........and ...allow no man to steal your crowns. ...sacrifice for sin is not available where sin is present. etc.?
I suggest you study The Bible...more thoroughly.
I totally disagree that it is improper application of scripture. Where is it in the Bible that earth dies? What I read was after Jesus return with rapture that God will pour out his wrath on earth. He will stop after 2/3 of living things are destroyed. He stops leaving 1/3 still living. Then Jesus will reign from his throne in Jerusalem.
You are calling this the destruction of earth?? What have you been drinking. It is obvious you haven't done much studying about eschatology. Parts of it is in the Gospels and epistles. Go reread those books looking at what Jesus said he would do and what is openly prophecied. His reign in Jerusalem is prophecied in Isaiah
You are calling this the destruction of earth?? What have you been drinking. It is obvious you haven't done much studying about eschatology. Parts of it is in the Gospels and epistles. Go reread those books looking at what Jesus said he would do and what is openly prophecied. His reign in Jerusalem is prophecied in Isaiah
The Bible is much more important/relevant than man made books for money.
I don't know what Bible you use nut, I suggest you find a new one because that one is not good.
...and you still have not properly responded to my points...which I predict you won't...because you can't and maintain your incorrect position with OSAS.
Until you properly respond to the controlling points of scriptures on this issue we will make no progress. Remember no one is perfect...but The Bible is.
I don't know what Bible you use nut, I suggest you find a new one because that one is not good.
...and you still have not properly responded to my points...which I predict you won't...because you can't and maintain your incorrect position with OSAS.
Until you properly respond to the controlling points of scriptures on this issue we will make no progress. Remember no one is perfect...but The Bible is.
L
2 Timothy 4:7-8 King James Version (KJV) Bible Gateway
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Paul was still alive and could have still sinned.
How did he know he was going to be with the Lord
Did he have eternal security? OSAS
Psalm 23:6; And I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.
How did David know he would dwell in the House of the Lord forever?
Did he have eternal security? OSAS
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Paul was still alive and could have still sinned.
How did he know he was going to be with the Lord
Did he have eternal security? OSAS
Psalm 23:6; And I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.
How did David know he would dwell in the House of the Lord forever?
Did he have eternal security? OSAS
