Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine
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OSAS comes from the following quote of Jesus. Explain how you can get around this?
John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
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Look at the underlying Greek. Harpazo means to "carry off by force". We cannot be snatched (a verb meaning that someone else takes us) away from Christ. You can look this up. But we CAN separate ourselves. Many, many scriptures testify to this truth. That is what the meaning of the passage says.
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So the WORKS TESTIFIED ABOUT JESUS, DOES IT TESTIFY ABOUT YOU?
NO ONE CAN SNATCH THEM FROM THE FATHER'S HANDS IS TRUE BUT CAN ANYONE EVEN THE BELIEVERS OR THE SHEEP'S GET LOST OR EVEN RUN AWAY FROM THE FATHER?
CAN THEY BE TEMPTED OR DECEIVED BY FALSE PROPHETS AND FALSE TEACHERS IN THIS LAST DAYS.
CAN THEY LOSE THEIR FAITH?
NO ONE CAN SNATCH THEM FROM THE FATHER'S HANDS IS TRUE BUT CAN ANYONE EVEN THE BELIEVERS OR THE SHEEP'S GET LOST OR EVEN RUN AWAY FROM THE FATHER?
CAN THEY BE TEMPTED OR DECEIVED BY FALSE PROPHETS AND FALSE TEACHERS IN THIS LAST DAYS.
CAN THEY LOSE THEIR FAITH?
Absolutely. In the Bible we have people with compromised, shipwrecked, and lost faith. We have people who have moved their faith from Jesus to something or someone else. Since we stand on faith, if we abandon the faith, we have lost that which we stand on. That is why the many warnings to endure......
We also see God warning us of false prophets and the danger there in. They cannot lead us away from God unless we decide to follow them, but mark the warning of Paul "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears."
We also see God warning us of false prophets and the danger there in. They cannot lead us away from God unless we decide to follow them, but mark the warning of Paul "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears."
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Good point. Why warn these true believers of the wolves entering if there is no real danger of apostasy?
What about that?
I think the OSAS debate will never be solved this side of heaven. One side quotes nothing can separate us from the love of God the other side quotes some will leave the faith in the last times etc.
So its a tug of war between verses.
I miss the reformation times when OSAS was perseverence of the saints, not 'how much sin can we get away with and still be saved'
What about that?
I think the OSAS debate will never be solved this side of heaven. One side quotes nothing can separate us from the love of God the other side quotes some will leave the faith in the last times etc.
So its a tug of war between verses.
I miss the reformation times when OSAS was perseverence of the saints, not 'how much sin can we get away with and still be saved'
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Here is Jesus on the subject foolish one! Your fallacious statement on a Christian site is beyond the pale.
John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
E....,
That scripture refers to the aftermath of G-d granting us eternal salvation after His judgement....our salvation is forever....no one can steal it from us/G-d.
What is it that you do not comprehend about this; Scripture says we must maintain (righteousness) until the end (death)..... allow no man to steal your crowns. There are many references which provide that G-d's intent is very clear....we must live a life according to His commands...not for a little while.
Further, please show me this ...OSAS... teaching in Christianity before the 1960's? I have issued that challenge to you before with no response.
That scripture refers to the aftermath of G-d granting us eternal salvation after His judgement....our salvation is forever....no one can steal it from us/G-d.
What is it that you do not comprehend about this; Scripture says we must maintain (righteousness) until the end (death)..... allow no man to steal your crowns. There are many references which provide that G-d's intent is very clear....we must live a life according to His commands...not for a little while.
Further, please show me this ...OSAS... teaching in Christianity before the 1960's? I have issued that challenge to you before with no response.
I would offer according to those whose names are written in the lambs book of life before 1960 or before he said; "Let there be and there was substance" and he saw it was good. , as the foundation of this world. We are freely given our surety as a living Hope that will not disappoint us who have the Spirit of Christ.. if any man has not, they do not belong to Him.
Christ is our living confidence in respect to a imputed righteousness .(Philippians 2:12-13 ) and we are informed not to complain if a person thinks one is not doing enough work or favoritism like Peter was with John and Peter not keeping his eye on Jesus started a lie as a oral tradition or what the scripture says do without murmuring. He also promises us he will not forget the good works we offer towards His name as one of the better things that accompany salvation
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a "good work" in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ Philipians 1:6
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his "good pleasure". Do all things without murmurings and disputings Philipians 2: 12-13
As new creatures again given a living hope and not one receiving the promise of the new incorruptible bodies, we continue to walk by faith in a hope of receiving the end of the promise. Again he works in us to both will and do His good purposes our living hope .
How can we lose a hope based on the works of God?
Only in your flawed interpretation of it. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus in Jesus. Period. We all sin and fall short of glory of God. We keep stumbling with the law. The reason Jesus suffered on the cross was to give us that free gift of grace. So according to the verses I posted Jesus keeps us in his hand after we accept his free gift of grace. Your foolish request for history before 1960 is meaningless since since getting that record goes back to before the days of arpanet tying government facilities together and the precursor to the internet. In any case why the history request. I could are less about it. You go back and research it. I lived iti. I'm 74 and remember being taught OSAS in church as a child. Live with it.
if a person could walk away,wouldn’t that be the person snatching themself out of CHRIST hands?