End time signs in Amillennialism?

[garee]

I see the amills dont really have an adequate explanation for gog and magog, even the twelves aposltes arent even literally twelve men just symoblic of something else. I just dont agree with that kind of interpretation

Trying to explain away everything not seen? Throwing the amills out with the bathwater? lol

Christians as new creatures are not what they will be as the bride of Christ in the new heavens and earth.. The apostles are literally men set aside as holy for the good purpose of the good will of God. God uses the 12 apostles a remnant of all the apostles that were sent out two by two as part of the great commission. It is the continuous work that we have a privilege to reign with Christ in these last days as messengers of the gospel.

12 apostles to represent the new testament believers on this side of the reformation as "walls" used as part of the description to describe the bride of Christ, the church.(Revelation 21) And tribes as gates to represent the same bride of Christ, the church, in respect to the saints on the other side of the renting of the veil.

That in which the eyes see (shadows and types)are used to represent the things of faith, the eternal not seen, the Holy Place of God.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which "are seen" are temporal; but the things which "are not seen" are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

I think in order for us to rightly divide the parables and search for both understandings. That seen (historically true) as the letter of the law or finger of God and that hid from natural man who has not the Holy Spirit as the spirit of the law. Both laws must work as if it was one.The perfect law.

Rather than trying to explain away everything not seen. The Holy Spirit explains the "way of the Spirit".The spirit of the law that gives spirit life.

2 Corinthians 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

And not the letter of the law that shows we are guilty .The letter literature kills it also gives a accurate historical account of God working in the affairs of men. Why would that parable (Revelation 20) be any different than others?

Sorry, but its interesting reading different pov about it. But a bit sad that amills dont really believe in Jesus reign being literal on earth where we get to reign with him and see him in person. They just miss out. Maybe they just dont believe God could do it?

I think they believe he is reigning in the hearts of all believers . Sends us out two by two. He encourages his children to look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

You say see him in person ? See eternal God who is not a man as us. But is the one Spirit of life the one and only ? How could you see a invisible God other than by the revelation he has given to us . The demonstration of the Son of man is over. 2 Corinthians 5:16 confirms it and lovingly commands us to think of him no more as if he was a man as us .Some did witness the demonstration .But that does not mean they did believe in God not seen .The Holy place reserved for the father alone. Call no man on earth father. One is the father of all spirit life.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

In other words the word "thousand" here as well as again many, many others examples to include the Revelation 20 parable.conceals the will of God so that men walk by faith the unseen. As our God forbid David from numbering days or people and goods The same applies with Christians today Christ will come on the last day as a thief in the night

Revelation 20:1-6 describes a period of 1,000 years Satan is “bound,” and the people of God “reign” having a peaceful regime compared to times of exceedingly fierce persecution. That thousand-year or last time or days began at the renting of the veil. We are literally past a literal thousand years. We know he is coming on the last day. So, then the signifier thousand used in that parable represents an unknown according to the signified interpretation. Just as it does many times to represent a unknow in whatever purpose the metaphor thousand is used for.

We walk by faith .Christ will come and destroy the present universe on that last day .

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

 

[Jimbone]

Jesus was saying the kingdom in your midst cos he was right there with them on earth.
He was there in person.

Some of those disciples who became apostles actually did see the kingdom eg John was giving revelation of it, and Peter did see Jesus transfigured. Yet the kingdom isnt established on earth yet because everyone isnt in yet. When Jesus returns all the saints that have died in christ are coming with Him and we are all going to be together.

It cant be a kingdom if some people dont recognise Jesus as King. For a kingdom to be a kingdom EVERY subject needs to recognise Jesus as King.

Otherwise its just an independent republic. Now I dont know about you but on earth we still have other kings and leaders and presidents and prime ministers and not all of them recognise the King of Kings and they arent subject to him.

This is why those tht believe in Jesus right now on earth are part of His kingdom spiriutally but its not fully realised because theres still unbelievers. This is why Jesus needs to return so every eye can see him and recognise Him.

Does that make sense? And those outside the kingdom, the unbelieving, are outside, they cant enter in. Their time is short because they dont repent they cant be part of it. When the kingdom of heaven comes the boundaries are clearly laid out in book of revelation, the city gates etc are measured and so long, so high and so wide. Its all very concrete. In fact the foundations are gold, and all precious stones.

Yes this makes sense, and although there are some differences here and there, I see it pretty much the same way, other that I do believe Jesus is King right now, I believe that is exactly what the early Christians were slaughtered for, proclaiming Jesus Christ is King, and your point that there are people (lots and lots) that don't believe is all part of the design, and exactly why He transforms us to bring them the good news. I also have been reading what premillennialism, postmillennialism, and amillennialism beliefs are, and I honestly don't fall into any of them completely, premillennialism is the one I disagree with the most. I do just do not believe the bible says we are waiting for a pre-tirb rapture, and I believe that LONG and incomplete list of scripture I just posted completely contradicts that, like leaves NO room for that. I also can't say I agree with how you interpret Jesus saying "some here will not die before these things happen", I don't think the text is saying what you wrote at all, I think you came up with it to fit what you want it too. In addition to that Matthew 10:23"When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." I mean how do you apply your theory to this one? He said you will not go through every town before the Son of man comes.

I also completely reject your assertion "For a kingdom to be a kingdom EVERY subject needs to recognize Jesus as King", I mean who are you to say this has to be? Again, back it up with His word and show me where this is made clear, and I'll check it out and apologize, but other than that this isn't true just because "you say so".

I had a guy do that to me here a few weeks ago, saying that my comment "my old man has been put to death and I was reborn in the Spirit", was me claiming to be sinless. I mean who in the world is he to say "my old man has been put to death", can only mean what he says it does with no scriptural back up. He just kept asking "do you still sin", over and over and over as if that question was "case closed" and it was only an assertion from his head. This is the same thing, or I see it as the same until you prove otherwise with His word.

This is my biggest problem here, every point I've heard so far has to have personal assertions or presuppositions that are totally added to the text, not draw from it. Again I do agree with most of what you're saying, even though it doesn't look like it, but anytime I hear or see points that have to been added to the text I have to ask for some kind of support from scripture, but things like "For a kingdom to be a kingdom EVERY subject needs to recognize Jesus as King", I mean where in the world is that law written? It is nothing more that eisegesis, and you can't use eisegesis to build doctrine or make an argument because I can just answer with what I think. Again I know I'm being strait to the point, but I do not mean any of this to be insulting or condescending at all, and I hope you understand that and appreciate this conversation as much as I do.

Shoot really I don't even fit solidly under any of these labels, so at this point I think it would be best for me to start studying more, and trying to defend something so under researched to me.

 

[Jimbone]

Trying to explain away everything not seen? Throwing the amills out with the bathwater? lol

Christians as new creatures are not what they will be as the bride of Christ in the new heavens and earth.. The apostles are literally men set aside as holy for the good purpose of the good will of God. God uses the 12 apostles a remnant of all the apostles that were sent out two by two as part of the great commission. It is the continuous work that we have a privilege to reign with Christ in these last days as messengers of the gospel.

12 apostles to represent the new testament believers on this side of the reformation as "walls" used as part of the description to describe the bride of Christ, the church.(Revelation 21) And tribes as gates to represent the same bride of Christ, the church, in respect to the saints on the other side of the renting of the veil.

That in which the eyes see (shadows and types)are used to represent the things of faith, the eternal not seen, the Holy Place of God.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which "are seen" are temporal; but the things which "are not seen" are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

I think in order for us to rightly divide the parables and search for both understandings. That seen (historically true) as the letter of the law or finger of God and that hid from natural man who has not the Holy Spirit as the spirit of the law. Both laws must work as if it was one.The perfect law.

Rather than trying to explain away everything not seen. The Holy Spirit explains the "way of the Spirit".The spirit of the law that gives spirit life.

2 Corinthians 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

And not the letter of the law that shows we are guilty .The letter literature kills it also gives a accurate historical account of God working in the affairs of men. Why would that parable (Revelation 20) be any different than others?



I think they believe he is reigning in the hearts of all believers . Sends us out two by two. He encourages his children to look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

You say see him in person ? See eternal God who is not a man as us. But is the one Spirit of life the one and only ? How could you see a invisible God other than by the revelation he has given to us . The demonstration of the Son of man is over. 2 Corinthians 5:16 confirms it and lovingly commands us to think of him no more as if he was a man as us .Some did witness the demonstration .But that does not mean they did believe in God not seen .The Holy place reserved for the father alone. Call no man on earth father. One is the father of all spirit life.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

In other words the word "thousand" here as well as again many, many others examples to include the Revelation 20 parable.conceals the will of God so that men walk by faith the unseen. As our God forbid David from numbering days or people and goods The same applies with Christians today Christ will come on the last day as a thief in the night

Revelation 20:1-6 describes a period of 1,000 years Satan is “bound,” and the people of God “reign” having a peaceful regime compared to times of exceedingly fierce persecution. That thousand-year or last time or days began at the renting of the veil. We are literally past a literal thousand years. We know he is coming on the last day. So, then the signifier thousand used in that parable represents an unknown according to the signified interpretation. Just as it does many times to represent a unknow in whatever purpose the metaphor thousand is used for.

We walk by faith .Christ will come and destroy the present universe on that last day .

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Man this post just made me think of what Jesus said to Thomas in John 20:29

Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

This fits well with what you were saying, although it has to be said this could mean a bunch of different things, but it does fit very nicely. Nice to think on.

 

[garee]

"For a kingdom to be a kingdom EVERY subject needs to recognize Jesus as King", I mean where in the world is that law written? It is nothing more that eisegesis, and you can't use eisegesis to build doctrine or make an argument because I can just answer with what I think. Again I know I'm being strait to the point, but I do not mean any of this to be insulting or condescending at all, and I hope you understand that and appreciate this conversation as much as I do.

Shoot really I don't even fit solidly under any of these labels, so at this point I think it would be best for me to start studying more, and trying to defend something so under researched to me.

God who is not a man as us. Is reckoned as our eternal King, of kings as our High Priest continually...supernaturally without beginning and end he remains of High King and Priest as one position..

Is it a law of God and not just a philosophical theory of men? Yes, to everyone who believes in the heart there is a God who makes himself know as it is written . He remains our High King and High Priest.

Because we belong to a family of nobility he calls us kings as priest that go out with the gospel two by two.

 

[Journeyman]

Wow that is some "excellent" Eisegesis, because I don't read anywhere this means what you're saying it does. Where in the world does scripture say in 1 Cor 15:25 means, "reign until his patience on the unrepentant ends".

It says it outright. You're not seeing it, because the "enemies" being subued by Christ's ministry are us,

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. Col.1:21

And for the time being, submission to him by his grace through faith is available to all. And for those who rejected his current reign, Jesus will say this to them,

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Lk.19:27

So, I will amend my former statement, but only in the sense that the unrepentant rejected his current reign.

That is ALL just from you, and not only that, you seem to be suggesting that God gets mad at us, like there is only so much He can take. You're applying human emotions to a God that has had everything set from the beginning, has He not?

Yes he has, but I'm not applying mankinds emotions to God, because mankind perverted the emotions God gave him. God has emotions, but they're unadulterated,

Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways, unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. Psa.95:10-11

There are many more examples in scripture of God's emotions and his patience ending for the unrepentant. I do believe there will come a day when God is "fed up" with the crap of the ungodly, but it will be because they hated God without cause, not the other way around.

They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away. Psa.69:4 (And when you read such passages, see Jesus on the cross. Otherwise, you might believe the satanic heresy that God abandoned himself.)

My main point is, we can't do that to scripture. I say that 1 Cor 15:25 means "that Jesus will ascend to the right hand of the Father, and reign until He has made ALL enemies a footstool for His feet", the only difference here is I'm actually pulling this from scripture not adding it as you did there.

The only difference is, you don't see that Jesus ascended so that we would know he has always ruled and there is nothing in all of scripture which is contrary to this.

That said, if it really does say somewhere that God is just taking the worlds sin until He just can't bare it anymore, then please share and I will apologize and have some serious rethinking to do, because I don't know a God that works on human emotion. I know He's long suffering, but that's not the same thing as being patient until He's "tired" of it.

Its true God doesn't get tired. Jesus proved that to death, but without longsuffering the unrepentant, there's nothing to be patient about.

I hope I don't come off too "mean" or "aggressive", that's not at all my intention, this just caught my attention and I wanted to address it. Again I could be wrong and am so open to hearing how you came to the conclusion you did. Thanks and have a great day.

I'm not offended by the you see scripture. Most of christiandom agrees with you, unaware that Jesus ruled over the dark deluded rulers of this world, defeating them every day....and believers rule with him the same way.

 

[Journeyman]

He was showing them that there was distinction between the Father and the Son. "The Lord said to my Lord", do you not see this?

No. He was showing them he is before David, because he is equal to God.

Do you think Jesus is SEATED at His right hand now? The bible says He is-

The right hand is symbolic of power.

I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Ps.16:8

In other words, God is my strength.
my strength.

Luke 22:67-69
67 “If you are the Christ, tell us.” But he said to them, “If I tell you, you will not believe, 68 and if I ask you, you will not answer. 69 But from NOW on the Son of Man shall be seated at the right hand of the power of God.” From when?

Not from when. From why. Jesus knew what their reaction would be because it was ordained in their scriptures, because the word of God rules on earth, whether in the flesh or not. Always has, always will.

Brother, I don't time to do these all at once. If you want to go through all the scripture you cited, then we do them a few at a time. Btw, are you a Jehovah's Witness?

 

[Journeyman]

The last day the day of the lord. Judgment day for the unbeliever. New spirit life in the new promised incorruptible body, all in the twinkling of the eye

If people don't have his Spirit and new life, they be receiving it on judgment day.

 

[garee]

If people don't have his Spirit and new life, they be receiving it on judgment day.

Which people ? The ones that died with a new spirit and new heart that will rise on the last day ? Or the one that died and his corrupted temporal spirit returns to God and his temporal body of flesh returns to the lifeless, spiritless dust of the field the clay it was formed of.

On the last day both those witnessed as having a new spirit and heart as a new creation will rise to receive her new incorruptible bodies. The other dead creation will not rise forever and ever more..

 

[Journeyman]

Which people ? The ones that died with a new spirit and new heart that will rise on the last day ? Or the one that died and his corrupted temporal spirit returns to God and his temporal body of flesh returns to the lifeless, spiritless dust of the field the clay it was formed of.

On the last day both those witnessed as having a new spirit and heart as a new creation will rise to receive her new incorruptible bodies. The other dead creation will not rise forever and ever more..

Sorry garee. I meant to say they "won't" be receiving it on judgment day.

 

[garee]

Sorry garee. I meant to say they "won't" be receiving it on judgment day.

Thanks, I was hoping that what you meant. Sorry if I offended you .

 

[Jimbone]

No. He was showing them he is before David, because he is equal to God.

The right hand is symbolic of power.

I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Ps.16:8

In other words, God is my strength.
my strength.

Not from when. From why. Jesus knew what their reaction would be because it was ordained in their scriptures, because the word of God rules on earth, whether in the flesh or not. Always has, always will.

Brother, I don't time to do these all at once. If you want to go through all the scripture you cited, then we do them a few at a time. Btw, are you a Jehovah's Witness?

"Btw, are you a Jehovah's Witness?"

LOL, nope I thought I made it pretty clear I believe Jesus is God, I do not believe He was created at all, nor was Micheal the archangel.

Again all I see you doing is taking your words, assertion and ideas and adding them to the text, and no offence, but I don't trust your ideas, as you shouldn't trust mine. We should only put trust into what God says, and to be honest I don't understand why you think I'm saying something different than you, it's like you're correcting me then saying the exact same thing. Once it gets like this it's pointless anyway. I don't believe what you think I do apparently, and you've completely lost me because you say you disagree, but then correct me by either saying the same thing a different way, or going off into a different aspect of the subject that I wasn't even talking about, that is completely harmonious with what I said anyway.

Example-

Me- He was showing them that there was distinction between the Father and the Son. "The Lord said to my Lord", do you not see this?

you- No. He was showing them he is before David, because he is equal to God.

Okay these are two different thing completely and BOTH 100% truth. The Son is distinct from the Father, and equal to God. So how in the world do you tell me "No", implying what I said was wrong, then correct me with something COMPLETELY different.

I can't have a conversation like this, it's like you're not even speaking to what I said at all, only what you THINK I believe, which is SO wrong given you actually asked me if I was a JW. Read my bio, read my other comment, read my testimony here, this question was so far out in left field there is no way you understand what I believe at all. Anyway I hope you have a good day, but I'm not just going to "debate" with you when I don't even know who you're talking to, and your only trying to teach and not listen. Still appreciate the conversation though.

 

[garee]

"Btw, are you a Jehovah's Witness?"

LOL, nope I thought I made it pretty clear I believe Jesus is God, I do not believe He was created at all, nor was Micheal the archangel.

Again all I see you doing is taking your words, assertion and ideas and adding them to the text, and no offence, but I don't trust your ideas, as you shouldn't trust mine. We should only put trust into what God says, and to be honest I don't understand why you think I'm saying something different than you, it's like you're correcting me then saying the exact same thing. Once it gets like this it's pointless anyway. I don't believe what you think I do apparently, and you've completely lost me because you say you disagree, but then correct me by either saying the same thing a different way, or going off into a different aspect of the subject that I wasn't even talking about, that is completely harmonious with what I said anyway.

Example-

Me- He was showing them that there was distinction between the Father and the Son. "The Lord said to my Lord", do you not see this?

you- No. He was showing them he is before David, because he is equal to God.

Okay these are two different thing completely and BOTH 100% truth. The Son is distinct from the Father, and equal to God. So how in the world do you tell me "No", implying what I said was wrong, then correct me with something COMPLETELY different.

I can't have a conversation like this, it's like you're not even speaking to what I said at all, only what you THINK I believe, which is SO wrong given you actually asked me if I was a JW. Read my bio, read my other comment, read my testimony here, this question was so far out in left field there is no way you understand what I believe at all. Anyway I hope you have a good day, but I'm not just going to "debate" with you when I don't even know who you're talking to, and your only trying to teach and not listen. Still appreciate the conversation though.

God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly mediator set between God and man

Before David, as the Son of God the Spirit of Christ is equal to God .The Son of man, Jesus is not God. His flesh which he says profits for nothing gives Jesus a beginning .God is supernatural without nature as a beginning. His eternal Spirit is the beginning and the end of all things

 

[Jimbone]

God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly mediator set between God and man

Before David, as the Son of God the Spirit of Christ is equal to God .The Son of man, Jesus is not God. His flesh which he says profits for nothing gives Jesus a beginning .God is supernatural without nature as a beginning. His eternal Spirit is the beginning and the end of all things

"Jesus is not God". Yes He is.

 

[Journeyman]

"Btw, are you a Jehovah's Witness?"

LOL, nope I thought I made it pretty clear I believe Jesus is God, I do not believe He was created at all, nor was Micheal the archangel.

Again all I see you doing is taking your words, assertion and ideas and adding them to the text, and no offence, but I don't trust your ideas, as you shouldn't trust mine. We should only put trust into what God says, and to be honest I don't understand why you think I'm saying something different than you, it's like you're correcting me then saying the exact same thing. Once it gets like this it's pointless anyway. I don't believe what you think I do apparently, and you've completely lost me because you say you disagree, but then correct me by either saying the same thing a different way, or going off into a different aspect of the subject that I wasn't even talking about, that is completely harmonious with what I said anyway.

Example-

Me- He was showing them that there was distinction between the Father and the Son. "The Lord said to my Lord", do you not see this?

you- No. He was showing them he is before David, because he is equal to God.

Okay these are two different thing completely and BOTH 100% truth. The Son is distinct from the Father, and equal to God. So how in the world do you tell me "No", implying what I said was wrong, then correct me with something COMPLETELY different.

I can't have a conversation like this, it's like you're not even speaking to what I said at all, only what you THINK I believe, which is SO wrong given you actually asked me if I was a JW. Read my bio, read my other comment, read my testimony here, this question was so far out in left field there is no way you understand what I believe at all. Anyway I hope you have a good day, but I'm not just going to "debate" with you when I don't even know who you're talking to, and your only trying to teach and not listen. Still appreciate the conversation though.

Sorry. It sounded like you were saying, Jesus needed to ascend to heaven to begin ruling over this world. Apologies.

 

[garee]

"Jesus is not God". Yes He is.

Jesus simply means savior .It does not mean flesh.

God is not a man as us. Father and Son are simply immutable attributes of our invisible God needed to define His plan of faith. God is one.

The Son of God according to the attribute of God acting as if he was a son (Son of man) God is not a man as us. The promised demonstration of pouring out his Spirit required a outward temporal form .That one time demonstration is finished

But not according to the Son of man Jesus .He has a corruptible beginning and end. Some did know him after the flesh like that of faithless Thomas which the Holt Spirit used to help us understand we are to walk by the unseen and not after the what the eyes see . God is not an man as us . We know not the Son of man as if God did have a beginning.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corinthains 5:16

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.Job 9:32-33

 

[Journeyman]

God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly mediator set between God and man

Before David, as the Son of God the Spirit of Christ is equal to God .The Son of man, Jesus is not God. His flesh which he says profits for nothing gives Jesus a beginning .God is supernatural without nature as a beginning. His eternal Spirit is the beginning and the end of all things

I think the problem is, people don't realize that Jesus wasn't "a man like us." Jesus, God in human form, is distinct from the rest of us.

 

[Hevosmies]

garee you do know that you must confess Jesus came in the flesh? You do know there is one mediator between God and man.... the MAN Christ Jesus <- thats what it says.!

 

[garee]

I think the problem is, people don't realize that Jesus wasn't "a man like us." Jesus, God in human form, is distinct from the rest of us.

I would agree with that . I view the distinction in so much that Jesus as the Son of man was not born with a corrupted spirit that was subject to death . Only his body typified as if it was sin was corrupted subject to death .. Sin is reckoned by the things seen, as a sign and witness they point back to the violation against God..

The Holy Spirit I would offer, used flesh typified as sinful to put away sin in the flesh "the things seen" . Flesh was needed a vison or a theophany would not fulfill the need of the demonstration.

Therefore as a one time demonstration represented by the veil (corrupted flesh) , previously concealing the way into the unseen Holy Place, the new heavens and earth. The place of faith God's hidden glory. It was opened when the graves were opened and the old testament saints as the bride of Christ entered in the first resurrection.

Sin is reckoned by the things seen "all flesh" is considered sinful. It shows us a fallen corrupted creation absent of the glory of God . The result of sin, death, as in dying death will come to those who know not Christ. Their corrupted bodies will return to the dust and the their temporal spirit to God who gave it temporally.

The same resurrection we enter when we first believed in. God not seen having delivered us from death to life. By the perfect law of God made up of two laws. The letter of the law that kills showing mankind is separated from the glory of a righteous God as His Holy unseen place. And the second law the spirit of faith according to the law of faith, the spirit of new life.

Again both working together as one perfect law. .

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[garee]

garee you do know that you must confess Jesus came in the flesh? You do know there is one mediator between God and man.... the MAN Christ Jesus <- thats what it says.!

I do confess he came once, as a promised demonstration. That demonstration is over.

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any "daysman" betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.Job 9:32-33

And yes I do know there is one mediator between God and man.... the MAN Christ Jesus . But that mediation is not reckoned after the corrupted flesh as that seen. The Son of man refused to called a "daysman as a fleshly mediator" to infallibly umpire between the things of men seen and those of God not seen. God will simply not share His glory with flesh that represents sin .The Son of man said His flesh profits for nothing.

When called good Master knowing it is impossible to serve two . The Son of man seen gave glory to the unseen holy place of God. and said in effect; Only God not seen is good we walk by faith. Good is defined by our unseen God. God unseen saw the light, that it was good. It established the unseen witness of His word. .

Genesis 1:4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[Journeyman]

I would agree with that . I view the distinction in so much that Jesus as the Son of man was not born with a corrupted spirit that was subject to death . Only his body typified as if it was sin was corrupted subject to death .. Sin is reckoned by the things seen, as a sign and witness they point back to the violation against God..

The Holy Spirit I would offer, used flesh typified as sinful to put away sin in the flesh "the things seen" . Flesh was needed a vison or a theophany would not fulfill the need of the demonstration.

Therefore as a one time demonstration represented by the veil (corrupted flesh) , previously concealing the way into the unseen Holy Place, the new heavens and earth. The place of faith God's hidden glory. It was opened when the graves were opened and the old testament saints as the bride of Christ entered in the first resurrection.

Sin is reckoned by the things seen "all flesh" is considered sinful. It shows us a fallen corrupted creation absent of the glory of God . The result of sin, death, as in dying death will come to those who know not Christ. Their corrupted bodies will return to the dust and the their temporal spirit to God who gave it temporally.

The same resurrection we enter when we first believed in. God not seen having delivered us from death to life. By the perfect law of God made up of two laws. The letter of the law that kills showing mankind is separated from the glory of a righteous God as His Holy unseen place. And the second law the spirit of faith according to the law of faith, the spirit of new life.

Again both working together as one perfect law. .

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Well, we interpret scripture differently. To me, there's nothing of the human body alone that is sinful. To me, Jesus is only likened as sinful by those who called him a sinner.