Election and predestination.

[FreeGrace2]

Context is essential. What does verse 20 say prior:
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age?.Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

Paul is stating that human is wisdom looks down on the message of the cross and that believers hold to His truth. It’s says nothing about all around salvation. I would suggest you read to entire chapter. It helps.

So, you are just going to sit there and actually DENY what the verse says plainly? That "God is pleased...to save those who believe".

You can deny reality. But you cannot take away what the verse says.

And even though I keep asking, you haven't yet produced a verse that tells us that God chooses who will believe. But you sure believe that.

 

[Aerials1978]

So, you are just going to sit there and actually DENY what the verse says plainly? That "God is pleased...to save those who believe".

You can deny reality. But you cannot take away what the verse says.

And even though I keep asking, you haven't yet produced a verse that tells us that God chooses who will believe. But you sure believe that.

I’m not denying anything. I have read 1 Corinthians many times, and that verse does not indicate universal salvation. You’re simply prooftexting. And I gave a link to verses(As in multiple) that show a consistent narrative that you simply ignore. Try this and tell me what Peter is starting:

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble
2 Peter 1:3-10

 

[John146]

It is my understanding we are already adopted adoption is a legal thing not a physical thing if you adopt a child you legally sign them into your family you don't change their body in any way you just legally sign them into your family so i am not sure where you are getting this understanding of adoption from

I don’t know about you, but my body has not been redeemed. The adoption is a future event all believers are waiting on.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Aerials1978]

I don’t know about you, but my body has not been redeemed. The adoption is a future event all believers are waiting on.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Why do you k

I don’t know about you, but my body has not been redeemed. The adoption is a future event all believers are waiting on.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Wrong. I notice how you glossed over the verse I posted from Romans as well.

 

[Blain]

I don’t know about you, but my body has not been redeemed. The adoption is a future event all believers are waiting on.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

yes but it also says this
Ephesians 1:5 “God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great delight.
so clearly the word adoption does not mean the same thing in these two instances

 

[Gideon300]

I have actually read it, I can't agree with all of it,Especially the rest of it.
If you have such a mentality, then how do you get along with unbelief ?
How did your former boss face you when you were unbelief ?

I don't know what you mean. What part of "the rest of it" are you referring to.

 

[Gideon300]

I have actually read it, I can't agree with all of it,Especially the rest of it.
If you have such a mentality, then how do you get along with unbelief ?
How did your former boss face you when you were unbelief ?

I don't know what you mean. "The rest of it"?

 

[Gideon300]

How many times do we find the word rapture in Scripture ?

"Rapture" is from the Latin translation of the Greek word that means to be caught up. (1 Thessalonians 4:17 etc.) Paul was "caught up". In Revelation, the child is caught up (chapter 12) and, of course, the the church will be caught up. I suppose "rapture" is just easier to say.

 

[soberxp]

I don't know what you mean. "The rest of it"?

The latter part of it?how do you get along with unbelief ?
How did your former boss face you when you were unbelief ?

 

[John146]

yes but it also says this
Ephesians 1:5 “God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great delight.
so clearly the word adoption does not mean the same thing in these two instances

Yes, God wants to adopt us through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the way. God had decided this way from the beginning. Bingo!

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
So, you are just going to sit there and actually DENY what the verse says plainly? That "God is pleased...to save those who believe".

You can deny reality. But you cannot take away what the verse says.

And even though I keep asking, you haven't yet produced a verse that tells us that God chooses who will believe. But you sure believe that.

I’m not denying anything.

Seeing what I posted above, I believe you are.

I have read 1 Corinthians many times, and that verse does not indicate universal salvation.

Well, maybe there is the problem. 1 Cor 1:21 isn't even about "universal salvation". You really missed the point of mine and what the verse clearly says. It says "God is pleased to save those who believe".

You’re simply prooftexting. And I gave a link to verses(As in multiple) that show a consistent narrative that you simply ignore.

Actually I looked at all the verses and the "consistent narrative" was about predestination, NOT about election. They are different.

Try this and tell me what Peter is starting:

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble
2 Peter 1:3-10

I think you meant "what Peter is stating, not "starting".

This passage is about the fact that believers have EVERYTHING they need for a godly life, in v.3. The rest of the verses are about what to do to have an "rich welcome" into the kingdom, from v.11, which you forgot to include in your quote. That verse is the very point of the previous verses. Here it is: and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

iow, those who fulfill v.4-10 will receive a "rich welcome", as opposed to simply "a welcome". It's all about eternal reward,which I'm not sure Calvinists believe in.

As to the phrase "confirm your calling and election", it doesn't mean to "prove it" but having the assurance of it.

Anyway, this passage does not support the reformed claim that election is to salvation.

Because v.4-10 is about lifestyle, confirming one's calling and election would clearly link to service.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"Rapture" is from the Latin translation of the Greek word that means to be caught up. (1 Thessalonians 4:17 etc.) Paul was "caught up". In Revelation, the child is caught up (chapter 12) and, of course, the the church will be caught up. I suppose "rapture" is just easier to say.

The key to understanding this verse is that there will be NO TRIP to heaven afterward, or the Bible would have said it.

The resurrection and being caught up occurs "when He comes" which is at the Second Advent. And all believers will STAY on earth with the King of kings to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

 

[soberxp]

I don't know what you mean. What part of "the rest of it" are you referring to.

Never mind, I should agree with you, I may understand wrong at the first time.

 

[Blain]

Yes, God wants to adopt us through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the way. God had decided this way from the beginning. Bingo!

you say he wants to adopt us but if you ntocie the way this verse speaks it speaks in past tense meaning it speaks as if it has already occured so the adoption through Jesus Christ in this verse in the way they have spoken it has already happened as we are bropught into the fold of his kingdom but you say the adoption is a future event yet there seems to be two separate adoptions somehow?

 

[John146]

you say he wants to adopt us but if you ntocie the way this verse speaks it speaks in past tense meaning it speaks as if it has already occured so the adoption through Jesus Christ in this verse in the way they have spoken it has already happened as we are bropught into the fold of his kingdom but you say the adoption is a future event yet there seems to be two separate adoptions somehow?

Yes, because he has given the believer his Holy Spirit as the guarantee that it's going to happen. It is so certain that we can now be called sons of God.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Beckie]

When mankind places himself at the center of salvation the Scriptures need be twisted.

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The Cross and all that is implies should be the center of our salvation. The Lamb took away our sin.

 

[John146]

When mankind places himself at the center of salvation the Scriptures need be twisted.

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

The Cross and all that is implies should be the center of our salvation. The Lamb took away our sin.

Yes, that's the Spirit's witness in us. We are called sons of God even thought the adoption has not taken place yet. The Spirit is our guarantee that it will take place.

 

[Beckie]

Yes, that's the Spirit's witness in us. We are called sons of God even thought the adoption has not taken place yet. The Spirit is our guarantee that it will take place.

You do not believe you are a child of God? how sad how very sad.

 

[John146]

You do not believe you are a child of God? how sad how very sad.

Absolutely I am a child of God even though my adoption has not taken place yet. My body needs redeemed. I do not yet appear as a son of God. The Spirit within me testifies that I am a child of God.

 

[John146]

You do not believe you are a child of God? how sad how very sad.

Has your adoption taken place? Has your body been redeemed? Are you now dwelling in an immortal righteous body?