Does the new covenant affirm or deny the OT?

[Whispered]

Yes, you're right, your question was rhetorical, sorry, my incompetence.
...but, for the sake of argument, I would say that out of the 10, which you mentioned, the Sabbath is outdated, just for the record, at least in my opinion, and I believe to be the sentiments of Paul (Col 2:16).

No, you're not incompetent.
Sabbath was from sundown on Friday unto sundown Saturday.

 

[DB7]

Uh.... The "Sabbath" doesn't mean a Saturday.

Sorry, not sure what you're referring to, i didn't indicate which day the Sabbath was?
BTW, i believe that the weekly Sabbath was from Friday sundown, to Saturday sundown. just for the record.

 

[Ghoti2]

Sorry, not sure what you're referring to, i didn't indicate which day the Sabbath was?
BTW, i believe that the weekly Sabbath was from Friday sundown, to Saturday sundown. just for the record.

You don't believe God wants us to "cool it" and focus on Him on a periodic basis, (perhaps weekly?) instead of just working, eating, and sleeping for 365 straight days every year?

 

[DB7]

If the Sabbath no longer applied, why did the Apostles after Jesus departed earth continue to honor the Sabbath?
Jesus told us the Sabbath was made for us, not we for the Sabbath.
The Book of Mark chapter 2: 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.

Why would we think Sabbath is no longer valid and yet go to church on Sunday, which is making that day the Sabbath day, even though it is on the wrong day.

The Book of Matthew chapter 19:16 And behold, one came to him and said, [i]Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, [j]Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, [k]Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honor thy father and thy mother; and, [l]Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” The Book of Matthew Chapter 5:17-20

Well i think that they did until Peter received the revelation about the Gentiles being allowed into the Kingdom. And subsequently through Paul's teachings. The verses you quoted were very early in the Church's history, well before the advent of the Gentiles and abrogation of the law. The Hebrew verses are typologies, as much as the sacrifices were. Christ was the final atonement, and the second coming will inaugurate the final Sabbath. Observing days and festivals are acts of works, they are rituals that foreshadowed what was to come.
The Sabbath was made for us, yes, meaning we don't accommodate ourselves to it, it accommodates us, as far as the hierarchy goes, and its inferiority to better things.
Why do Christians still follow a weekly ritual reminiscent of the Sabbath, that's a Catholic interpolation, as much as penance is (reminiscent of continual animal sacrifice)
Paul's preaching in the synagogues on the Sabbath, was not a sanctified ritual for him, but a place to find potential converts. He became like Jews in order to save them.

 

[DB7]

You don't believe God wants us to "cool it" and focus on Him on a periodic basis, (perhaps weekly?) instead of just working, eating, and sleeping for 365 straight days every year?

No, i think that every day should be in remembrance of him. Why be selective and calculated. Daily say your prayers and show your reverence. What one does at church on a weekly basis, i do every night at home, as i'm inclined to believe that so do you, and almost every member on this site (for the sake of argument).

BTW, i think that i just understood your 2nd last post, ...yes, the sabbath was a Saturday according to Jewish law. They were to observe it weekly, if not, death penalty.

 

[Ghoti2]

No, i think that every day should be in remembrance of him. Why be selective and calculated. Daily say your prayers and show your reverence. What one does at church on a weekly basis, i do every night at home, as i'm inclined to believe that so do you, and almost every member on this site (for the sake of argument).

BTW, i think that i just understood your 2nd last post, ...yes, the sabbath was a Saturday according to Jewish law. They were to observe it weekly, if not, death penalty.

No...… the several other places Sabbath is used, it is not talking about a specific day of the week the Jewish leaders decided to make a mandantory assembly day.

And speaking of "assembly", when are we to "not forsake the assembling of ourselves together" if we only "say our prayers at home?"

 

[DB7]

No...… the several other places Sabbath is used, it is not talking about a specific day of the week the Jewish leaders decided to make a mandantory assembly day.

And speaking of "assembly", when are we to "not forsake the assembling of ourselves together" if we only "say our prayers at home?"

Well, no, Ghoti2, the original point was the Sabbath of the 10 commandments, which i said was abrogated, this was a weekly observance that was compulsory to follow. The other 'Sabbaths' were not part of the discussion. This weekly practice is over for Christians, which was my original point.

Exodus 31:15
31:15. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

I am not foresaking the assembly, just remarking of the dissolvement of the Sabbath in Christian doctrine, and why it is not fundamentally necessary to observe it. Congregate as you like, but the frequency, duration and location do not have a mandatory criteria.

 

[Ghoti2]

Well, no, Ghoti2, the original point was the Sabbath of the 10 commandments, which i said was abrogated, this was a weekly observance that was compulsory to follow. The other 'Sabbaths' were not part of the discussion.

Exodus 31:15
31:15. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

I am not foresaking the assembly, just remarking of the dissolvement of the Sabbath in Christian doctrine, and why it is not fundamentally necessary to observe it. Congregate as you like, but the frequency, duration and location do not have a mandatory criteria.

Well, they kind of do have to be regularly scheduled at a designated place that can facilitate the hundreds of people who will congregate on a known periodic basis. (Seating, lighting, parking, etc.) It would be a bit haphazard if people just wandered in or out whenever they happened to think about it. And the particular day of the week isn't mentioned.

 

[DB7]

Well, they kind of do have to be regularly scheduled at a designated place that can facilitate the hundreds of people who will congregate on a known periodic basis. (Seating, lighting, parking, etc.) It would be a bit haphazard if people just wandered in or out whenever they happened to think about it. And the particular day of the week isn't mentioned.

True, BUT IT'S NOT MANDATORY!!!
Have you forgotten the original point, you keep digressing and changing the topic.
You said "I can't think of any of the Ten Commandments that is outdated and of no use to us"
I said, "But the weekly Sabbath that was part of the 10 c, namely #4, and that was punishable by death, has ended and has no use for Christians" (Paraphrase)

Or, have I somehow got onto another thread by mistake (excuse the sarcasm)?

 

[Nehemiah6]

My position is that God is Holy and His words, all of them, are Holy and nothing is cancelled that is Holy.

If God cancels something, you had better believe it. Otherwise you would find yourself among the unbelieving Jews of the world today.

Yes, all of Scripture is holy and all of it is divine revelation. But within that revelation we find that for about 1500 years God allowed Israel to see the types and shadows of Christ in all that was found within the Old Covenant [NOT THE OLD TESTAMENT OR TANAHK. The Old Covenant (or the Law of Moses) is only a part of the entire Old Testament.]

So it is God HIMSELF, and Christ HIMSELF, who set aside the Old Covenant in favor of the New Covenant. But your attitude is that GOD WAS MISTAKEN. You are wiser than God.

 

[Blik]

Hi Whispered, that's fundamental Christian belief no, no works or observance of days & rituals?

Colossians 2:16-17
2:16. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

It seems to me that one fundamental rule of understanding scripture is to always think of it as a whole, never pick one verse without relating it to all others. If we relate Col. 2:16 to all scripture, we find it stands alone, without other scripture confirming it. That means we must question our interpretation of it. Other scripture tell us that God looks as our times, counts weeks and seasons. We also do so, we celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25th. At the time this scripture was given the pagans were very alive and well in the world and their rites were usually season based. It could be this scripture relates to that.

Also, there is no scripture cancelling this commandment. Some people say that anything Christ did not repeat is cancelled, but that idea is something man tells us not scripture.

I also think that we need to look at how many times something is repeated in scripture to see it's importance to the Lord. The command to honor the Sabbath is repeated over and over.

 

[Blik]

So it is God HIMSELF, and Christ HIMSELF, who set aside the Old Covenant in favor of the New Covenant. But your attitude is that GOD WAS MISTAKEN. You are wiser than God.

Where did you get the idea that God set a covenants aside? Something became obsolete, God gave us something better, but I haven't seen a scripture saying God set anything aside.

 

[Dino246]

Where did you get the idea that God set a covenants aside? Something became obsolete, God gave us something better, but I haven't seen a scripture saying God set anything aside.

In the NIV of Hebrews 10:9, it says, “He sets aside the first to establish the second.”

 

[Ghoti2]

I think that either a few posters have forgotten the OP's question, or else they have never really read all of the 613 Jewish rules. I think they have the idea those rules are all about nothing but killing bulls on holidays or not wearing polyester shirts.

Nothing was ever mention about, Would you be cheered as being a swell NT Christian for sleeping with your sister, or having sex with an animal, or even abusing it... or about cheating your customers in business... or building a house dangerously… and on and on for a whole host of other things. But they ARE in the Jewish law. And we are not at liberty, today, to just throw all those rules of living right out the window because "We now have a new covenant."

All that was asked is if any of them are applicable or useful to us today.

And I say many of them are.

 

[Lightskin]

I can't think of any of the Ten Commandments that is outdated and of no use to us, and not a heck of many of the other 613 laws that we are supposed to ignore.

You live under the law? 😢

 

[Ghoti2]

You live under the law? 😢

I know it is early in the day, but try reading what I wrote, not what you want it to say.

I live by most of the laws God gave. The first being that I (and you) have only one god. And if you were to go through the list, I am sure there are close to at least a hundred of them I firmly believe God still expects us to follow. And I try to.

 

[Lightskin]

I know it is early in the day, but try reading what I wrote, not what you want it to say.

I live by most of the laws God gave. The first being that I (and you) have only one god. And if you were to go through the list, I am sure there are close to at least a hundred of them I firmly believe God still expects us to follow. And I try to.

I read it four times and have no idea what you’re trying to regurgitate. But one thing is very clear, you’re a slave to your own pharisaic ways. You strain out a gnat yet swallow a camel.

 

[Ghoti2]

I read it four times and have no idea what you’re trying to regurgitate. But one thing is very clear, you’re a slave to your own pharisaic ways. You strain out a gnat yet swallow a camel.

You honestly DON'T know those rules God handed down for men to live by, do you?

 

[Lightskin]

You honestly DON'T know those rules God handed down for men to live by, do you?

I know Jesus Christ is Lord of all and Savior to those who put their faith and trust in Him alone. His grace is sufficient; to God be the glory. But I digress; you have some laws to keep after. Don’t hurt yourself thumping your prideful chest.

 

[Noose]

There's two things; the covenant and the law.

The covenant carries the law and the law is the word of God. The word of God doesn't become obsolete nor can it be made better- the heavens and earth will pass but it shall remain. It is the old carrier (covenant) that was made obsolete because they (Jews) did not understand. The new covenant has made the law to be understood - it is about love.