Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ?
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“Jesus said some do not. “
yeah he said that to these israelite folks who broke his covenant and were cirsed according to his word
“He said, “Go and tell this people: “ ( Israel ) ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’ Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.” Then I said, “For how long, Lord?” And he answered: “Until the cities lie ruined and without inhabitant, until the houses are left deserted and the fields ruined and ravaged, until the Lord has sent everyone far away and the land is utterly forsaken.”
Isaiah 6:9-12 NIV
I’ve shown you this multiple times soecifically israel was made unable to hear Jesus because he was to be rejected and sent to everyone . You always go back to what he said to israel the people he specifically made blind and deaf to his word after generations of them rejecting and defiling it . Your trying to apply the old covenant to gentile it has never been said that gentiles were made deaf …..what is said is they would hear it even though israel had been made deaf here’s that part
“And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes have they closed; Lest they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should be converted, And I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
Acts 28:25-28, 30-31 KJV
What I would say is as long as you try to apply an Old Testament cirse that’s only ever put on israel because of their covenant breaking you’ll always think no one can hear but again that was soecific tomosrsel and was also nly u til the desolation of Jerusalem and scattering of them into all nations they aren’t made deaf anymore “ how long lord ? Until the cory is desolate and the people are scattered into the nations “
I think you are kisinderrrsndong the two covenants and covenant peoples and applying things in Israel’s covenant to everyone else and ( my opinion ) that’s all it is just a fools opinion online . That God made himans able to hear them later he cursed israel to become deaf to his word ….. here’s what he said before that
“For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
( they weren’t deaf and unable yet )
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:11
later on he made them dead because they continually rejected his word …..there’s no magical election that makes one person able to hear gods word and onther person ma le to hear it that’s a specific ot curse on Israel temporarily
imagine for a moment if israel had accepted him he wouldn’t have been crucified and sent to everyone … part of Gods plan was to make israel deaf so they would reject him and then he could save everyone that believes ……
yeah he said that to these israelite folks who broke his covenant and were cirsed according to his word
“He said, “Go and tell this people: “ ( Israel ) ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’ Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.” Then I said, “For how long, Lord?” And he answered: “Until the cities lie ruined and without inhabitant, until the houses are left deserted and the fields ruined and ravaged, until the Lord has sent everyone far away and the land is utterly forsaken.”
Isaiah 6:9-12 NIV
I’ve shown you this multiple times soecifically israel was made unable to hear Jesus because he was to be rejected and sent to everyone . You always go back to what he said to israel the people he specifically made blind and deaf to his word after generations of them rejecting and defiling it . Your trying to apply the old covenant to gentile it has never been said that gentiles were made deaf …..what is said is they would hear it even though israel had been made deaf here’s that part
“And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes have they closed; Lest they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should be converted, And I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
Acts 28:25-28, 30-31 KJV
What I would say is as long as you try to apply an Old Testament cirse that’s only ever put on israel because of their covenant breaking you’ll always think no one can hear but again that was soecific tomosrsel and was also nly u til the desolation of Jerusalem and scattering of them into all nations they aren’t made deaf anymore “ how long lord ? Until the cory is desolate and the people are scattered into the nations “
I think you are kisinderrrsndong the two covenants and covenant peoples and applying things in Israel’s covenant to everyone else and ( my opinion ) that’s all it is just a fools opinion online . That God made himans able to hear them later he cursed israel to become deaf to his word ….. here’s what he said before that
“For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
( they weren’t deaf and unable yet )
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:11
later on he made them dead because they continually rejected his word …..there’s no magical election that makes one person able to hear gods word and onther person ma le to hear it that’s a specific ot curse on Israel temporarily
imagine for a moment if israel had accepted him he wouldn’t have been crucified and sent to everyone … part of Gods plan was to make israel deaf so they would reject him and then he could save everyone that believes ……
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. Now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the outcome is eternal life. 2 Corinthians 3 verse 17; Galatians 5 verse 1; Romans 8 verse 2; from Romans 6 verse 22
The only sense God is the saviour of the lost is only providential, their natural lives are spared for the furthering of His Purpose towards His Own elect, but that's just natural providence Neh 9:6
6 Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
But in a Salvific sense, No He is not their Saviour at all.
6 Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
But in a Salvific sense, No He is not their Saviour at all.
Who can believe aside from God drawing them with lovingkindness which is meant to engender repentance? Do you know there are those here who claim God is unfair if He reveals Himself to one person in any way that is different than to another? How ridiculous is that? The Bible is full of such examples. So we have Christians falling all over themselves to say God is unfair, and then they want to shame those who have personal experiences with God. People who say such things seems to reveal that they do not have a personal relationship with God, really. I am pretty sure you have been a witness to some of this behavior by those who say they are Christians. Do you have a personal relationship with God, or do you not? God does after all promise to reveal Himself to those who diligently/sincerely seek Him, and He desires that we do so.
Moving on, then... those given to Jesus by God, it is said the will come. It does not say they decide or they choose to, just that they do. No ifs ands or buts are given. It is presented as a definite sequence of events. People claim they chose to believe, like beliefs are something people pick and choose in every instance. Well, guess what? I cannot even agree with that! I have believed things I had no idea were part of my general make-up without prolonged inspection and an honest examination of my beliefs, and these things were revealed to me, I did not decide to believe them any more than I finally decided to believe in God. If anything, after much rebellion and defiance and running from God, after multiple encounters, after struggling mightily against becoming one of those people (Christian), I discovered I believed, I did surrender, I began co-operating with God, Who all along had been working things for my good. How God makes His decisions is above my pay grade. He does desire all to be saved but it sees evident not all will be. My focus is not and never has been what criteria God uses to choose aside from His sovreignty which many screech about also, because it offends their mistaken sense of man's will being free. For God to unilaterally exercise sovreignty makes Him an unjust tyranical monster in their view, yes, kidnapping people against their will, even. Jeepers. As far as I am concerned the Bible teaches that it is Jesus Who sets us free, not man's decision.
And you know, Blain, I talk about this aspect of what the Bible teaches regarding the naturLman juxtaposed against the spiritual man, I can and have and do go on and on about it and then someone will come along and ignore every single thing I said and projcet their Calvinist Derangement Syndrome onto me. I affirm what the Bible says and I am accused of blaspeming God based on nothing but their vain imagination and then that person demands I seeks peace with them and then falsely accuses me of the very same thing again! They use their freedom to vent their wickedness.
Moving on, then... those given to Jesus by God, it is said the will come. It does not say they decide or they choose to, just that they do. No ifs ands or buts are given. It is presented as a definite sequence of events. People claim they chose to believe, like beliefs are something people pick and choose in every instance. Well, guess what? I cannot even agree with that! I have believed things I had no idea were part of my general make-up without prolonged inspection and an honest examination of my beliefs, and these things were revealed to me, I did not decide to believe them any more than I finally decided to believe in God. If anything, after much rebellion and defiance and running from God, after multiple encounters, after struggling mightily against becoming one of those people (Christian), I discovered I believed, I did surrender, I began co-operating with God, Who all along had been working things for my good. How God makes His decisions is above my pay grade. He does desire all to be saved but it sees evident not all will be. My focus is not and never has been what criteria God uses to choose aside from His sovreignty which many screech about also, because it offends their mistaken sense of man's will being free. For God to unilaterally exercise sovreignty makes Him an unjust tyranical monster in their view, yes, kidnapping people against their will, even. Jeepers. As far as I am concerned the Bible teaches that it is Jesus Who sets us free, not man's decision.
And you know, Blain, I talk about this aspect of what the Bible teaches regarding the naturLman juxtaposed against the spiritual man, I can and have and do go on and on about it and then someone will come along and ignore every single thing I said and projcet their Calvinist Derangement Syndrome onto me. I affirm what the Bible says and I am accused of blaspeming God based on nothing but their vain imagination and then that person demands I seeks peace with them and then falsely accuses me of the very same thing again! They use their freedom to vent their wickedness.
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Yes I have seen how you speak of biblical truths and yet people ignore you on it or just flat out project their own personal bias on you some of them even attack you for it, calvanism seems to be intuding into the church on a alarming scale and yes I agree that he draws us to him we do not simply choose him my question is about selective salvation the elect being only a certain people or is salvation offered to everyone?
If everyone was given to Jesus then all would come. Are all given? It seems not. Are all drawn? Possibly and I would maybe even say yes, and add that being drawn does not equate to being given in the same way I would say making choices does not equate to having a will that is free. I would only not say yes unequivocally because many are repulsed by their ideas of God. However I think that can change over time. And also even those who may be repulsed by what they think of God, they do not know Him, and may spend time in contemplation about it any ways, or seeking, or debating the issues, and that can act as a drawing. On what basis does God choose? I already said I do not know aside from His sovereignty, and people screech about that.
From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
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Yeah those twelve chosen apostles from Israel ?
“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
John 6:70 KJV
acknolwedging that the apostles were twelve chosen men isnt condtradict isnt anything or acknolwedging that God made israel
Deaf and unable to hear except for the chosen remnant he would send onto the world with the gospel. It’s just a huge jump to then say “ your either sectretly ordained for glory and chosen or you aren’t “ that’s not sound doctrine it’s like saying “ god ordained and chose Jeremiah to be a prophet therefore if he doesn’t do that you’re lost “ it’s not a correlation. Of course God chose his holy prophets and apostles they are messengers of his word empowered by his spirit to carry out a mission …the mission being preach the gospel to everyone else so they can be saved if they believe …..
God choosing a prophet or apostle is not what’s happened with us , they are different
“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
Revelation 21:14 KJV
“And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
Matthew 19:28 KJV
Paul was also chosen by Jesus as an apostle after Judas departed this again isnt about how we are saved but how he , and who would would spread his message to the world. The remnant of Israel beginning with the twelve apostles all Israelites and joined with the early church of prophets and apostles and elders and leaders like James or barnabus or Timothy even as a second generation preacher. Everyone else isn’t called to be apostles and fulfill that part of his word or called to sit on twelve throne’s judging israel thier names are written in heaven as foundations not ours the book of life is where we need our name to not be blotted out from as so many are
“Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.”
Psalm 69:28 KJV
It’s not that they weren’t there but they got blotted out but why ?
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
Exodus 32:33
They were in there but blotted out for sin. Never just not written there but thier actions against him caused thier names to be blotted out of that book which pertains to all mankind
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:12-13, 15 KJV
They aren’t found written there because they’ve been blotted out
In Christ we can instead have our sins “blotted out” or remitted.
“Hide thy face from my sins, And blot out all mine iniquities.”
Psalm 51:9 KJV
“I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.”
Isaiah 43:25 KJV
But not if we reject him then there’s no sacrifice to remit sins left…..comes down to who will believe the gospel not who god decides Will believe the gospel he’s already don’t his work it’s finished now there’s just the message of the gospel that saves anyone and everyone who hears and believes
“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
John 6:70 KJV
acknolwedging that the apostles were twelve chosen men isnt condtradict isnt anything or acknolwedging that God made israel
Deaf and unable to hear except for the chosen remnant he would send onto the world with the gospel. It’s just a huge jump to then say “ your either sectretly ordained for glory and chosen or you aren’t “ that’s not sound doctrine it’s like saying “ god ordained and chose Jeremiah to be a prophet therefore if he doesn’t do that you’re lost “ it’s not a correlation. Of course God chose his holy prophets and apostles they are messengers of his word empowered by his spirit to carry out a mission …the mission being preach the gospel to everyone else so they can be saved if they believe …..
God choosing a prophet or apostle is not what’s happened with us , they are different
“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
Revelation 21:14 KJV
“And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
Matthew 19:28 KJV
Paul was also chosen by Jesus as an apostle after Judas departed this again isnt about how we are saved but how he , and who would would spread his message to the world. The remnant of Israel beginning with the twelve apostles all Israelites and joined with the early church of prophets and apostles and elders and leaders like James or barnabus or Timothy even as a second generation preacher. Everyone else isn’t called to be apostles and fulfill that part of his word or called to sit on twelve throne’s judging israel thier names are written in heaven as foundations not ours the book of life is where we need our name to not be blotted out from as so many are
“Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.”
Psalm 69:28 KJV
It’s not that they weren’t there but they got blotted out but why ?
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
Exodus 32:33
They were in there but blotted out for sin. Never just not written there but thier actions against him caused thier names to be blotted out of that book which pertains to all mankind
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:12-13, 15 KJV
They aren’t found written there because they’ve been blotted out
In Christ we can instead have our sins “blotted out” or remitted.
“Hide thy face from my sins, And blot out all mine iniquities.”
Psalm 51:9 KJV
“I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.”
Isaiah 43:25 KJV
But not if we reject him then there’s no sacrifice to remit sins left…..comes down to who will believe the gospel not who god decides Will believe the gospel he’s already don’t his work it’s finished now there’s just the message of the gospel that saves anyone and everyone who hears and believes
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Yeah only there’s no scripture saying that , it’s talking about the apostles. But you guys use thier choosing and then apply it to everyone just like Israel’s deafness also used to say no one can hear god unless your chosen ect ect that stuff isn’t there so other scriptires get misapplied and used to say it but they don’t …mankind will be judged just as the lord has always said they will it’s not a random choice by God but will be as he said it is going to just like this
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11 NIV
there’s not a group of chosen favorites but there’s a judgement coming for everyone according to what he said not a secret choice that makes it possible for one guy to ever “ lost his salvation “ and another guy never able to be saved …..that is not what the Bible says at all it rather says Gods Will is that all people would repent and not perish , it says his Will is for all to come to a knowledge of the truth and be saved it says preach the gospel to everyone all creation and whoever believes will be saved as a result ….whoever doesn’t believe will be damned as a result …
but everyone has to choose for thierselves what to believe. Been that way since Eden when god told them one thing and the serpent told them the contrary
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11 NIV
there’s not a group of chosen favorites but there’s a judgement coming for everyone according to what he said not a secret choice that makes it possible for one guy to ever “ lost his salvation “ and another guy never able to be saved …..that is not what the Bible says at all it rather says Gods Will is that all people would repent and not perish , it says his Will is for all to come to a knowledge of the truth and be saved it says preach the gospel to everyone all creation and whoever believes will be saved as a result ….whoever doesn’t believe will be damned as a result …
but everyone has to choose for thierselves what to believe. Been that way since Eden when god told them one thing and the serpent told them the contrary
“Also, why would it not? Jesus said we can do nothing aside from Him.
But the free will crowd has the natural man doing things Scripture plainly states is impossible.”
you are quoting from Jesus teaching them to abide in his doctrine and keep his word , because they can do nothing apart from him . Not that they can’t do that but that they need to abide in his word the whole section is teaching that
“You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
( what happens if they don’t ?)
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
….If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.”
John 15:3-8, 10 NIV
It began way back in 14
““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”
John 14:15-17, 21-24 NIV
He hasn’t said at all tbat it’s impossible for them to keep his word or obey his commands . he’s saying if they do that then they’ll understand and be fruitful but if they don’t they’ll end up as cast away branches burned up in the fire . And using the example of how a branch isn’t going to be anything at all without it being connected to the tree it’s a branch of. Then uses the imagery of how the I fruitful branches that do not abide in him will be removed and burned up.
Same thing John is saying here really
“Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God;
whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.”
2 John 1:9-10 NIV
Ot never teaches us that we can’t obey him he’s always calling us to obey him …. If we don’t believe it though that’s different maybe we believe differently and can’t accept the call to do it because we think we can’t but it’s never taught by Jesus and his apostles th at they can’t repent and obey God he tells them if they do then they’ll receive the things he is saying they will also warning that if they don’t what’s going to happen ….
eventually we have to choose even if we say we couldn’t before now we need to choose the good and life
But the free will crowd has the natural man doing things Scripture plainly states is impossible.”
you are quoting from Jesus teaching them to abide in his doctrine and keep his word , because they can do nothing apart from him . Not that they can’t do that but that they need to abide in his word the whole section is teaching that
“You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
( what happens if they don’t ?)
If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
….If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.”
John 15:3-8, 10 NIV
It began way back in 14
““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”
John 14:15-17, 21-24 NIV
He hasn’t said at all tbat it’s impossible for them to keep his word or obey his commands . he’s saying if they do that then they’ll understand and be fruitful but if they don’t they’ll end up as cast away branches burned up in the fire . And using the example of how a branch isn’t going to be anything at all without it being connected to the tree it’s a branch of. Then uses the imagery of how the I fruitful branches that do not abide in him will be removed and burned up.
Same thing John is saying here really
“Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God;
whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.”
2 John 1:9-10 NIV
Ot never teaches us that we can’t obey him he’s always calling us to obey him …. If we don’t believe it though that’s different maybe we believe differently and can’t accept the call to do it because we think we can’t but it’s never taught by Jesus and his apostles th at they can’t repent and obey God he tells them if they do then they’ll receive the things he is saying they will also warning that if they don’t what’s going to happen ….
eventually we have to choose even if we say we couldn’t before now we need to choose the good and life
@Pilgrimshope
Theres no scripture for you. I dont understand scripture through you
Theres no scripture for you. I dont understand scripture through you