Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

[Nehemiah6]

What if someone argued that the Holy Spirit applied the Gospel to the ‘elect’ thus giving them new birth/life.

That would contradict the Gospel which offers salvation to all freely: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).

 

[Magenta]

Jesus' Words in John 6:65

 

[brightfame52]

Nehemiah6

So which comes first the believing or the New Birth?

New Birth of course. John 1:13 tells why some believed on Christ from Jn 1:12 because they were born of God

 

[brightfame52]

So Jesus tells his followers to do something they cannot do?

40 Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

So God tells us to do something we are not capable of, nope that is not God.

I dont know what you talking about.

 

[brightfame52]

papermonkey

True.God's gift of grace and faith. Afforded through his Holy Spirit lending understanding where before the natural mind could not understand the things of God.

A person must be born again before they can see/understand the things of the kingdom, like its Gospel Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

And the Gospel is to do with the Kingdom of God Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Acts 8:12

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 20:25

And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

 

[brightfame52]

As well, if this position is true, whose fault is it if the “unregenerate” man never accesses the “things of God”?

Answer: God, you make God morally culpable.

What scripture is actually teaching, outside of the contamination of the Calvinism, not the contrast between the natural man and the regenerate man but rather that from the natural perspective and the spiritual perspective.

People were putting natural wisdom of Greek philosophy over what needs to be understood from a spiritual perspective.

Go read 1 Cor 2 and step outside of bias you bring to the text and read from the perspective of Paul and his audience.

“These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31)

The power of conversion is in the hear and reading of the written word.
The word of God is sufficiently powerful, faith comes by hearing. Scripture is clear.

Mans inability and death in sin is because of his sin. Men sinned in Adam and the wages of sin is death. God isnt obligated to save men by grace. God reveals the Gospel to them He saves by Grace.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, but the Jews are still the chosen people. There are still promises God will keep to the Jews.

No the jews were never Gods chosen people, there was a remnant of jews Chosen, just like theres a remnant of Gentiles chosen. Gods choosing people for salvation isnt based upon race, thats showing respect of person based on ethnicity.

 

[brightfame52]

That would contradict the Gospel which offers salvation to all freely: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).

There are no offers in that verse, they are imperatives. You know what imperatives are ? They aren't offers.

 

[mailmandan]

I am not excluding works. God commands good works as instructions for his born again children of God to live their lives by, as they sojourn here on earth, but God does not require good works as a pathway to secure eternal deliverance.

We are saved FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10) and NOT BY good works or works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

 

[notmyown]

Actually all non-liberal Reformed and Presbyterian churches require their members to believe and hold to the teachings of the Westminster Confession. Are you a member of such a church? If so go and talk to the pastor and confirm what I have said. So those "narrow parameters" are exactly what Reformed Theology represents.

this is untrue. ever heard of the London Baptist Confession, for example?
you only show your further ignorance of Reformed churches, and Reformed theology.

 

[Ted01]

Nehemiah6



New Birth of course. John 1:13 tells why some believed on Christ from Jn 1:12 because they were born of God

Wouldn't this imply that there would be people who were "born-again" that didn't believe?

 

[John146]

The second death is being cast into the lake of fire. No man has been appointed to this second death.

It is appointed for man once to die and after that, the judgment.

 

[Magenta]

So - how did Adam's nature "change" since with his "perfect" nature, he disobeyed???

Before sinning, was Adam by nature deserving of God's wrath?

I say no. You seem to be saying yes.

 

[Magenta]

I have summarized the false teaching of Total Depravity -- "wholly
inclined To all evil". Now is this true or false? IT IS UTTERLY FALSE.

Was Job for example "wholly inclined to all evil" and "wholly defiled in all the parts and
faculties of soul and body"? Let's see: There was a man in the land of Uz, whosename was
Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. (Job 1:1)

So Calvinistic Total Depravity is a totally depraved doctrine.

Basic Bible understanding refutes you. For starters, Job had faith in God. Total depravity deals with those of no faith.

Let's break it down. (a) There are none righteous. (b) Without faith it is impossible to please God.

(c) Non-believers do not have faith in God. (d)Anything not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23b). (e) Sin is evil.

Which one of a, b, c, d, and/or e do you disagree with?

 

[HeIsHere]

True.God's gift of grace and faith. Afforded through his Holy Spirit lending understanding where before the natural mind could not understand the things of God.

I've noted in my travels those who insist we can choose salvation and understanding are also of a mind we can choose to return to our fallen damnable blind state.
Therein fixing all ability upon human will, not God's.
That's what some call auto-theism, or, self as God powered.

Saving faith is not a gift, grace and salvation are the gift.

We are saved through faith.

The grammar of the text (Ephesians) and the big picture of scripture makes this clear.

 

[Cameron143]

Saving faith is not a gift, grace and salvation are the gift.

We are saved through faith.

The grammar of the text (Ephesians) and the big picture of scripture makes this clear.

That's not clear at all from that text. Grammatically, faith is the closest antecedent.
Personally, it appears salvation, grace, and faith are all included.

 

[Magenta]

Saving faith is not a gift, grace and salvation are the gift.

We are saved through faith.

The grammar of the text (Ephesians) and the big picture of scripture makes this clear.

Jesus is the founder of our faith. 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: Surely it goes without saying that this is given by God?

founder
noun
a person who founds or establishes something

 

[HeIsHere]

That's not clear at all from that text. Grammatically, faith is the closest antecedent.
Personally, it appears salvation, grace, and faith are all included.

Salvation here is deliverance, quality of life.

Faith is feminine, and the pronoun “that” is neuter, so the pronoun cannot be pointing back to faith.
Greek pronouns must agree with their antecedent in gender and number.
there is a mismatch if it refers to faith.

If you speak a gendered language you would hear the problem, but English is not gendered so it is difficult to hear that mismatch.

The word ‘gift’ is also nominative which clarifies that it is salvation that is the gift, not faith.
There are three words that are in the subject or nominative case, and they all agree together: saved, this, and gift. The gift of God is not faith — it is SALVATION.

I could write more, but what amazes me is how this wrong understanding has permeated Christianity and has caused people to believe that God bestows the gift of faith so people can be saved, very wrong.

Paul never once wrote directly saving faith is a gift.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Before sinning, was Adam by nature deserving of God's wrath?

I say no. You seem to be saying yes.

BEFORE Adam gave in to his Temptation, and enticement from satan, there was no "God's Wrath" to deserve. and then Adam fell short of God's glory, and GRACE (unmerited favor) kicked in when God didn't JUDGE ADAM on the spot, and eradicate him. Adam was never CURSED, and his human nature never changed. His envronment did, however - for his sake, and satan became the "Prince of the power of the air".

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Salvation here is deliverance, quality of life.

Faith is feminine, and the pronoun “that” is neuter, so the pronoun cannot be pointing back to faith.
Greek pronouns must agree with their antecedent in gender and number.
there is a mismatch if it refers to faith.

If you speak a gendered language you would hear the problem, but English is not gendered so it is difficult to hear that mismatch.

The word ‘gift’ is also nominative which clarifies that it is salvation that is the gift, not faith.
There are three words that are in the subject or nominative case, and they all agree together: saved, this, and gift. The gift of God is not faith — it is SALVATION.

I could write more, but what amazes me is how this wrong understanding has permeated Christianity and has caused people to believe that God bestows the gift of faith so people can be saved, very wrong.

Paul never once wrote directly saving faith is a gift.

Eph 2:8,9